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That basically makes the table a bit ridiculous. There is no point going for 2nd team innings and then breaking it down further to 3rd and 4th innings.
Also, I just don't think I'd need to bat the 2nd innings. Innings defeat![]()

That basically makes the table a bit ridiculous. There is no point going for 2nd team innings and then breaking it down further to 3rd and 4th innings.
Also, I just don't think I'd need to bat the 2nd innings. Innings defeat![]()
Well, I don't really rate Bairstow much tbh. All the batsmen who debuted post 2010 have inflated averages. Marsh was pretty good, and was one of the best gloves-men too. Very good keeper.By depth, its just Shaun Pollock. But then again, Bairstow is a better bat than Marsh. And VVS is also better than Botham. I'd also like to point that Greenidge is better than any opener he has. I'd like to go as far as to say he is amongst the best openers in the draft.
Will give you Sachin though. He is the best batsman in the match. But Kallis is not far behind. Averages wise, Kallis is much better but obviously Tendulkar has that factor which Kallis doesn't.
Do not disagree with that analysis. But like Raees pointed out, aparently, even Amiss struggled against pace.Greenidge and Haynes are the best opening pair of 80's and I doubt Jayasuriya's ability to negate swing condition especially against Pollock.
Yep. I don't particularly rate him too high either. Don't think he is a 40 averaging batsman. But he seems more of a batsman than Marsh. Marsh was was a great gloveman.Well, I don't really rate Bairstow much tbh. All the batsmen who debuted post 2010 have inflated averages. Marsh was pretty good, and was one of the best gloves-men too. Very good keeper.
Laxman is a better batsman than Botham, agreed. Also agree with your rating of Greenidge. Like him a lot.
Yep. Bowling averages since the turn of the century have gone up by about 3 compared to the 90s. The 60s, 70s, 80s are not too different to one another.The averages argument - don't disagree with. Then the flipside must also be taken. ie, bowlers averaging 26-30 today are actually much better than they seem, right?
Because I'm not. For one, its Johnson, Boult, Caddick and Kallis.How could you possibly argue that Johnson, Caddick and Kallis is a better pace attack than Botham, Pollock and Hoggard?
Yeah - 60s-80s was largely similar. Now look at Johnson who averages 28.4 vs Botham who averages 28.4. Again, not implying that Johnson is a better bowler. But to just claim easy win on a pacy pitch because you have two better names is not that straight forward. Added a massive let-off in terms of playing 2 spinners doesn't help.Yep. Bowling averages since the turn of the century have gone up by about 3 compared to the 90s. The 60s, 70s, 80s are not too different to one another.
That is pretty cool. So do I - Saqlain, Chandra, Jaya; Obviously Jayasuriya isn't a full fledged spinnerI like that Anant/RD have assembled three spinners, one an offspinner, one a leggie, and another a left-armer. That's pretty cool.
The thing with Mitch is that he was so darn inconsistent. When he was at his best he was brilliant, but that rarely lasted for more than a few months at a time. When he was poor he was very poor. On the other hand, Botham had a more consistent career and his stats are weaker due to struggling (but playing on) in his twilight years. At his peak he was very good.Yeah - 60s-80s was largely similar. Now look at Johnson who averages 28.4 vs Botham who averages 28.4. Again, not implying that Johnson is a better bowler. But to just claim easy win on a pacy pitch because you have two better names is not that straight forward. Added a massive let-off in terms of playing 2 spinners doesn't help.
The thing with Mitch is that he was so darn inconsistent. When he was at his best he was brilliant, but that rarely lasted for more than a few months at a time. When he was poor he was very poor. On the other hand, Botham had a more consistent career and his stats are weaker due to struggling (but playing on) in his twilight years. At his peak he was very good.
Also, it may be an old fashioned think, but for me openers and #3 need to be proficient in making big scores, to frustrate the opposition.
Greenidge, Jaya, Vengsarkar score a century every 9.7, 13.4, 10.8 innings respectively
Amiss, Warner and Richardson score a century every 8, 5.8, 9.1 innings repectively.
By the time Sachin, Clarke and co. arrive, it is likely my team would be cruising with tired bowlers
Come on, anant. On one hand people don't rate Bairstow because averages are inflated but then Warner's averages should also be adjusted, right. Sanath started his career as a bowler. He scored all his 100s in the 8 yrs between 1996-04 where he scored one hundred every 9.3 or something innings.
But why would you look at only 100s. Look at 50+ scores and suddenly the top 3 are a fifty plus score for every 3.3 innings for you vs every 3.7 innings for mine (cumulatively). That, after having Warner in your team who is skewing the numbers. It'll be even closer if I consider Jaya between 1996-04.
It's coming down to this - you're trying to prove that your opening 3 are better despite admitting yourself that Greenidge is amongst the best openers in the draft.
Anyways, I'm off now and won't be able to log on for a while. Good fun, anant.
Erm isn't that the same way you're trying to prove your middle order is better when admitting that Sachin is the best player in the draft?It's coming down to this - you're trying to prove that your opening 3 are better despite admitting yourself that Greenidge is amongst the best openers in the draft.
Anyways, I'm off now and won't be able to log on for a while. Good fun, anant.
The only reason I'm saying Greenidge is a good batsman despite stats showing otherwise is people's opinion. Had his stats been that good, I wouldn't have argued otherwise. Also, as far as Jaya is concerned, agreed he came as a bowler but to suggest to see his stats of just 1996-04 is a bit misleading as he played beyond that. I'm pretty sure stats of every player will increase should you remove last x years from their career. Additionally, Jaya averaged 50+ on only 3 occassions- in one of those years he played 3 tests only.
And as far as David Warner's average is concerned, he averages 68+ against SA, 45 vs Eng, arguably the 2 finest bowling sides. Sure, we use the argument "But x played so and so bowler who was way greater". But an average of 68 against a side that has had a bowling attack as good as any side in history bar WI needs to be considered as well. Additionally, it's the 2nd highest among all players who are eligible. If not anything, he is relatively very good.
D'oh that came out stupid. I was trying to say that the gap between the top 3 isn't as much as you guys are painting it out to be. See aboveErm isn't that the same way you're trying to prove your middle order is better when admitting that Sachin is the best player in the draft?
Sure, next game onwards.@Varun , how about showing team's side by side in your first post ?and rest of tactics in next few posts, it make it easy to compare between sides.
Thanks.Sure, next game onwards.
David Warner averages sub-40 away from home. He is a very good opener but he just isn't the top notch category.
I'll just make last few points. I won't be able to log on for a while now. @anant @RDCR07
1. My batting is better than this. Both the opponents have admitted that Botham at number 6 is a gap (vs my team, is a good player in his own right). I have 3 greats in my batting order (Kallis, Border, Greenidge) vs his Tendulkar. I also have Laxman who is amongst the better number 6s vs his Botham. His batting can be flakey when shit hits the fan (see below)
2. He still hasn’t addressed him playing 2 spinners on a pace pitch: Yes, his pacers are better than mine. But he is playing 2 sub-standard (for those conditions) spinners on pacy pitch and that’s a huge let off.
3. My spinners are better: I think Chandra, Saqlain > Harbhajan, Herath
The latter 2 points combined with a superior batting means that he will not get a let off on any pitch. Yes, his team is quality enough but I think, this will be a 1-1 or a 2-1 in my favour.
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That's interval's write up.I actually favour Anant on the slow wicket because although I agree with Varun that Chandrasekhar is the best spinner here, I can't see Mitch or Kallis being much use at all in those conditions. Boult might do something with the new ball in the first innings, but after that it will all be down to Chandra and Mushtaq. On the other hand, I think Pollock and Botham will be able to provide very good support for Anant's spin trio.
Chandra /Saqlain > Harbajan/HearthI actually favour Anant on the slow wicket because although I agree with Varun that Chandrasekhar is the best spinner here, I can't see Mitch or Kallis being much use at all in those conditions. Boult might do something with the new ball in the first innings, but after that it will all be down to Chandra and Mushtaq. On the other hand, I think Pollock and Botham will be able to provide very good support for Anant's spin trio.
On spin track it becomes Chandra Saqlain vs Harbhajan, Herath and kaneria. Add to that, I have useful fast bowlers as well, bowlers who have performed well in such conditions, Not bowlers who are likely to be ineffective on such wickets.Chandra /Saqlain > Harbajan/Hearth
Since we are talking about spin friendly conditions, Some stats(avgs) of bowlers in India, SL, Pak and while I agree they may be a bit skewed especially in Botham's case, the others are worth noting
Mitchell Johnson 40.10 52.17 DNP
Trent Boult 49.40 15.11 DNP
Andrew Caddick DNP 25.00 94.00
Jacques Kallis 38.86 35.33 83.14
Matthew Hoggard 23.32 35.88 37.00
Ian Botham 25.53 21.67 45.00
Shaun Pollock 27.38 25.14 22.56
EDIT: Apologies for the formatting
The flipside would then be true for bouncy wickets. Can Harbhajan/ Herath provide support to the trio of Pollock/ Botham and Hoggard? I have 4 pacers backed by by Chandra who is more suited to those conditions.I actually favour Anant on the slow wicket because although I agree with Varun that Chandrasekhar is the best spinner here, I can't see Mitch or Kallis being much use at all in those conditions. Boult might do something with the new ball in the first innings, but after that it will all be down to Chandra and Mushtaq. On the other hand, I think Pollock and Botham will be able to provide very good support for Anant's spin trio.
1. Like I answered earlier the table is repetitive as it is highlighting a stat and then further breaking it down into its components. On the flip side, with nearly every player of mine averaging more than your player at the particular batting position, one could argue, that your 1st innings average will be significantly lower than our team.
2. I am assuming England and SA to be considered as pacy pitches (with WI and Aus more on bouncy side), Averages of spinners listed if more than 2 or more tests played in Eng, SA respectively:
Mushtaq: NA 45.67
Chandra: 33.97 DNP
Bhajji: 49.79 34.00
Herath: 41.90 27.70
Combined in these venues
Mushtaq: 45.67
Chandra: 33.97
Bhajji: 40.90
Herath: 39.67
So not exactly a huge difference. You average it out, and I think it comes down to +-1 run
If we're using quality vs quantity argument, please consider that I have one more pacer than you for the pacy conditions then.On spin track it becomes Chandra Saqlain vs Harbhajan, Herath and kaneria. Add to that, I have useful fast bowlers as well, bowlers who have performed well in such conditions, Not bowlers who are likely to be ineffective on such wickets.
Quoting one of my previous posts regarding fast bowlers in spin friendly wickets:
Chandra and Saqlain is much better bowler compared to those three mentioned there but i take your point on Botham/Pollock useful in these conditions.On spin track it becomes Chandra Saqlain vs Harbhajan, Herath and kaneria. Add to that, I have useful fast bowlers as well, bowlers who have performed well in such conditions, Not bowlers who are likely to be ineffective on such wickets.
Quoting one of my previous posts regarding fast bowlers in spin friendly wickets:
Lending towards Interval
That's what happens you work in a bank for too long...
Yeah, I can't see Anant's spinners proving much use in the third match. Then again, I don't rate Caddick at all. Still have you down as slightly favoured due to your batting on that one but there's not much in it.The flipside would then be true for bouncy wickets. Can Harbhajan/ Herath provide support to the trio of Pollock/ Botham and Hoggard? I have 4 pacers backed by by Chandra who is more suited to those conditions.
Sir, its a pacy and bouncy wicket (ie assisting fast bowlers). Why would you leave out certain geographies? Just look at the respective away averages and you'll see. Both Bhajji and Herath are 40+
That's what happens you work in a bank for too long...