Just saw Ijazz already has 3 votes 
Test Cricket draft: QF : Ijazz17 vs Mani @ National Stadium, Karachi
- Thread starter The Man Himself
- Start date
Well Crowe has come to the fore, which is a big advantage to him, I must admit. Read on...
Not sure why we are already 3 down
No idea either, mate. Lots of people voting but not posting sadly.Not sure why we are already 3 down
Naturally, there will be bias in some of my write-up. It's my job after all. But I haven't fabricated anything. Even the articles I have linked the players to don't just speak of how good they are, but also some of their weakness. I tried to be as objective as possible and the quotes I posted speak of how highly a player is rated by their peers or by a journalist of that era. That's a part of your write-up, I didn't like with all due respect. Some of it is fine, but the comment about Sobers rating Gupte above Warne really irked me for some reason in the R16 and it irks me even now.
With regards to the "Game Plan" and "Key Battles" column, I still believe I have many nailed on. I have the greater number of game changers with my batting, more variation with my bowling and a better fielding. I know you will disagree, but I still think I have the better keeper as well, especially with two spinners at the helm in my attack. On an subcontinent pitch, I definitely think it will suit to have more subcontinent players. Obviously, legends will do it anywhere and you do have some true legends of the game. I am still of the opinion that in a one-off this will be a draw, but in a fiver, I will nick this.
Yeah
Someone pointed it put in the earlier game too, not sure who and I clarified that it isn't to say Gupte > Warne but to simply highlight how highly his peers rated him seeing as he belongs to a generation where none of us watched him and neither do we have videos etc. For such players, comments from the likes of sobers is invaluable. But again, I repeat, it isn't in any way intended to say he's better than Warne.
I was the one who brought it up there too :Yeah
Someone pointed it put in the earlier game too, not sure who and I clarified that it isn't to say Gupte > Warne but to simply highlight how highly his peers rated him seeing as he belongs to a generation where none of us watched him and neither do we have videos etc. For such players, comments from the likes of sobers is invaluable. But again, I repeat, it isn't in any way intended to say he's better than Warne.
.OhI was the one who brought it up there too :
. I had no recollection of who it was and didn't bother going back to check.But such comments are largely foolish. Sobers has no right to compare two players who come from two totally different generations and has only faced one of them. If he comes out and says that Gupte was the best spinner he ever faced, I would take his account into consideration. But to say what he did, I think he must be a little loose in the head and there is no way I can ever consider what he said with all that seriousness. It's like Robbie Savage claiming Jordan Henderson is the best ever midfielder in the premier league (Not an actual quote, but I wouldn't be surprised if he said this ).
). Even among journalists, Boycott was despised wasn't he.Edit: I just realized, this belongs in the other thread.
stupid me!
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Nothing has changed, his best team got better with his additions
But seriously, these pace attacks though
Trueman, Holding, Garner, Tyson and McGrath
It's the biggest travesty that this game isn't being played at the WACA or Wanderers, or Sabina Park or some suitably quick and bouncy pitch, Karachi ffs
But seriously, these pace attacks though
Trueman, Holding, Garner, Tyson and McGrath
It's the biggest travesty that this game isn't being played at the WACA or Wanderers, or Sabina Park or some suitably quick and bouncy pitch, Karachi ffs
@Ijazz17 you've only got 3 bowlers?
Random draw my friend
Quite a few actually. You could say 3 Specialists, one all-rounder (Although Shakib is used as a Specialist bowler with devastating effect in the sub continent by Bangladesh). Worrel and Hammond also have the knack of picking up wickets. Worrel regularly averages 2 wickets an innings when ever he "feels" like bowling and Hammond has over 700 FC wickets at a respectable average of 30. It's just that the latter two weren't often used as bowlers in test match cricket. But I'll definitely give them the odd overs to see if they can affect any change.
Edit: Also forgot to mention Steve Smith and Bruce Mitchell, both of whom started their careers as Leg Spinners. Mitchell especially has an excellent record at FC levels. But like I said, I'll be giving these the odd overs only, depending on how the game is progressing.
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Whats the point of getting FC record when we are playing a test match draft.
It isn't. It's not useful at all. I've just used it to to say that, if the need arises, I won't hesistate to use them as supporting bowlers. Just because their contemporaries never used them much for their bowling doesn't mean I won't.
I hope you're on a wum.But such comments are largely foolish. Sobers has no right to compare two players who come from two totally different generations and has only faced one of them. If he comes out and says that Gupte was the best spinner he ever faced, I would take his account into consideration. But to say what he did, I think he must be a little loose in the head and there is no way I can ever consider what he said with all that seriousness. It's like Robbie Savage claiming Jordan Henderson is the best ever midfielder in the premier league (Not an actual quote, but I wouldn't be surprised if he said this
Its up to you use then or not ,but bringing in the FC record to prove something doesn't fit at all.You could still come up with his test record which isn't bad imo.
He has dropped Thomson meaning he is going in with Mcgrath, Trueman, kumble and Shakib as the only bowlers. It's a bowler short imo as Shakib isn't good enough considering the level of the players.
None of them have proven themselves as good enough in the test arena. Here, they are playing in an all time draft. It's just free runs.
The point I was trying to make is that you definitely cannot compare players who hail from such a different generation gap. If Sobers simplified things and just said, Gupte was the best ever spinner he faced, I would genuinely take it into consideration. But to go OTT and claim he is better than Warne is way too far fetched for me with all due respect to the man. He may be right, Gupte might have been the better spinner, who knows, but the way I see it, such comparisons have to rely on some semblance of logic. Either in that, the player who gives such quotes has played with or against the "great" in their prime or has watched both of them on telly.
Sobers played against Gupte and has watched Warne, both live and on the telly. I don't see the problem. Also, I'm not sure why this is so surprising, players are compared across generations all the time, in every sport.
Hmm...could see ljazz having trouble taking the 10 wickets in the first innings. Later, when the pitch becomes more favourable to spin he's in a very good position being able to employ spin from both ends. Let me try to get a better handle on his part-time options.
Yeah, they decent average too in Test matches
Free Runs is too much of a wrong perception. Worrel and Hammond have econ's in the low 2 points. In a 100 overs, I expect them them to probably bowl like what 10-14 overs (Not even that much tbh, I'm just being generous). How many runs will that set me back ? 30-40 ?
But still he bats second in the Sub continent pitch for which we certainly have edge over him.
I did use the word "Or" in my defense. I know this cross comparisons happen all the time, but so much changes over time in almost every sport. In Football, balls become lighter, formations become more important, roles etc. Same with cricket.
I don't know why they do it. It's just not something I support on a personal level.
Not sure I follow you. You mean either played against both the players being compared "or" watched both is fine but having played against one and watched the other isn't?
We are batting first so it will be him batting last on that wicket, not us. How much of an impact do you see Shakib the bowler having vs our batting anyways?
I've already said, I don't plan to use them much. I still see my top 4 offering more variation than Marun's team. I mean how many Bouncers can they keep bowling
. He also doesn't have a very good 5th bowler to eat up the overs. On a hot Karachi afternoon, his three paceman will be knackered if not given enough rest.Yeah, it's a fairer scale to compare players on isn't it ? It's an idealistic thought obviously, one that will ever see true light.
When I say free runs, I mean they'd ease any pressure off and give us some comfort meaning whatever runs we get are free. Even 40 extra runs without pressure would be great
Agreed that batting fourth isn't ideal. But I have some of the calmest batsmen in the middle order who are more than capable of seeing out the match no matter how big the pressure. An extra batsmen (although you call him half-batsmen) will also do me no harm at all in that situation.
I could see Worrell and Hammond chipping in with their bowling, maybe taking out a couple tail-enders. Worrell's left arm slow could be handy on this wicket. Do you have anyone else that could bowl, Ijazz?
I don't see a problem tbh. Otherwise you'd never be able to compare across generations. I do get your point, an opinion would obviously mean more if the played had aged against both the players he's comparing but that's not possible across generations.
Mitchell as well. Excellent leg spinner. Never bowled much in test cricket, but I wouldn't be afraid to toss the ball to him.
I've already given you like 7 options
which is a lot more than Marun's team. Pace and Bounce and the odd googly alone won't win you this match. Every little detail matters and I still believe I have most of those details in my favour.A great man once said this
I've already said, I don't plan to use them much. I still see my top 4 offering more variation than Marun's team. I mean how many Bouncers can they keep bowling
I've already said, I don't plan to use them much. I still see my top 4 offering more variation than Marun's team. I mean how many Bouncers can they keep bowling
We got Gupte, who got more variety with his leg spin/Googly,infact he got two variety of googly and a fliper.M.Clarke can come up with his left arm orthodox.,notable thing is his best as came form Mumbai which more or less similar to Karachi.Which mean we can eat few overs in middle if at all we need to.
Even then you get too many muddying factors like personal agenda and patriotism. I try to avoid getting into the game of 'so-and-so said'. However, there might be those who doubt Gupte et al are greats of the game, and I get the use of such quotes to dispel those doubts.
Holding, Garner and Tyson are just bowlers who bowl bouncers now?I've already said, I don't plan to use them much. I still see my top 4 offering more variation than Marun's team. I mean how many Bouncers can they keep bowling
We have 4 good bowlers, that's enough when you have a spinner in the midst. You have 3 + a part timer who won't be anywhere close to being good enough in this sort of a game. Why are you painting us as the side light on bowling?
Cmon ijaz, initial write up was about how your top 4 would have huge stands and have an easy time vs our pace attack while Mcgrath and Co will keep getting regular wickets and now this.
Yeah, any runs Shakib gets is ofcourse a plus and nothing to be mocked at. His bowling or batting doesn't add enough imo to have replaced someone like thommo which gives us an advantage with you being a bowler short. I'd gladly let you have the extra runs he'd score because I don't see karachi as a track where you need an extra half bat. It's the bowlers that you need to pick 20 wickets which wins you tests.