Test Cricket draft: Mani vs NM @ Basin Reserve, Wellington

Who will win test match?


  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
I'm going go out on a limb here and say that this will probably be a very low scoring test match. It's NZ after all. Marun's (Can't keep typing Mani/Varun all the time :o) starting order haven't really played in NZ to get a gauge. Hanif played a couple matches and struggled. Same goes for Clarke and Ganga. Can't comment on smith coz keepers of that time are usually adept at being handy rather than exceptional with the bat.

I don't see a score higher than 200 tbh in the 1st innings.
 
Everybody has good games mate. The thing about cricket is that 99% of the time the stats don't lie. Frankly, if Gupte was as good as Gibbs, why isn't he remembered nearly as much? I am enjoying reading about him, but he is up against a GOAT spinner.
Stats dont say half the picture, especially when you play for a team like ours back then and have your career cut short in such bizarre circumstances. He is remembered as one of the best though. How much better can it get than the accolades he received for performancea against the WI team back then? They had the 3 Ws playing for them. It was them that talked about him being great. I told you what sobers said too. The likes of Prasanna and bedi consider the guy his idol. The 50s of Indian cricket is sometimes called "the age of gupte", not without reason. Was also awarded by BCCI in 2001 with some Nayudu award, first superstar of Indian cricket etc. Check his first class record too, it's top drawer. Unfortunately, he played at a time when we were incredibly poor.
 
I'm going go out on a limb here and say that this will probably be a very low scoring test match. It's NZ after all. Marun's (Can't keep typing Mani/Varun all the time :o) starting order haven't really played in NZ to get a gauge. Hanif played a couple matches and struggled. Same goes for Clarke and Ganga. Can't comment on smith coz keepers of that time are usually adept at being handy rather than exceptional with the bat.

I don't see a score higher than 200 tbh in the 1st innings.
The game being in NZL is more an indicator of the conditions rather than the exact country or ground being important.

Our top 4 alone will get more than 200, some absolute all time legends in there with Hanif, Kanhai, kalli, cmon mate.
 
The game being in NZL is more an indicator of the conditions rather than the exact country or ground being important.

Our top 4 alone will get more than 200, some absolute all time legends in there with Hanif, Kanhai, kalli, cmon mate.
yes, my point exactly. Grounds in New Zealand always tend to favour Seam bowlers. Most of the scores tend to be low scoring, on average in the 200-300 range. And the conditions in NZ are so unique that I don't think there is any other nation which comes close to it. Of your batsman that did play there i.e. Hanif, Clarke and Ganga, I believe only Clarke performed well. For NM's team, of those that did play in those conditions, Crowe and Ames were brilliant. Lara was good as well. Lloyd and Edrich were rubbish. I was very surprised with Lloyd's record. 11 Innings and a highest score of 44. :(
 
The game being in NZL is more an indicator of the conditions rather than the exact country or ground being important.

Our top 4 alone will get more than 200, some absolute all time legends in there with Hanif, Kanhai, kalli, cmon mate.

I'd strongly disagree. My quicks are great, and my spinner better. It's NZ - there will be wickets, and it will probably be low scoring. I keep remembering the India NZ series (even though it was ODIs) that the team batting second always one. You have a looong tail and a weak lower order. Not to mention, only 4 bowlers.
 
yes, my point exactly. Grounds in New Zealand always tend to favour Seam bowlers. Most of the scores tend to be low scoring, on average in the 200-300 range. And the conditions in NZ are so unique that I don't think there is any other nation which comes close to it. Of your batsman that did play there i.e. Hanif, Clarke and Ganga, I believe only Clarke performed well. For NM's team, of those that did play in those conditions, Crowe and Ames were brilliant. Lara was good as well. Lloyd and Edrich were rubbish. I was very surprised with Lloyd's record. 11 Innings and a highest score of 44. :(

I didn't look at those records. I think NZ is seamer friendly and comparable to Aus/England/WI/SA.
 
I'd strongly disagree. My quicks are great, and my spinner better. It's NZ - there will be wickets, and it will probably be low scoring. I keep remembering the India NZ series (even though it was ODIs) that the team batting second always one. You have a looong tail and a weak lower order. Not to mention, only 4 bowlers.
Yea its only Holding/Joel Garner /Tyson they are good enough to run through any opposition,And Gupte had already got better record against Hunte.
 
Yea its only Holding/Joel Garner /Tyson they are good enough to run through any opposition
They won't be bowling 90 overs in a day between them, though. How many do you plan to get from each on the first day? And how many from Gupte?
 
yes, my point exactly. Grounds in New Zealand always tend to favour Seam bowlers. Most of the scores tend to be low scoring, on average in the 200-300 range. And the conditions in NZ are so unique that I don't think there is any other nation which comes close to it. Of your batsman that did play there i.e. Hanif, Clarke and Ganga, I believe only Clarke performed well. For NM's team, of those that did play in those conditions, Crowe and Ames were brilliant. Lara was good as well. Lloyd and Edrich were rubbish. I was very surprised with Lloyd's record. 11 Innings and a highest score of 44. :(
Haven't checked those records, doubt the sample size is enough for the ones that played there, let alone the fact that few wouldn't even have played.
I'd strongly disagree. My quicks are great, and my spinner better. It's NZ - there will be wickets, and it will probably be low scoring. I keep remembering the India NZ series (even though it was ODIs) that the team batting second always one. You have a looong tail and a weak lower order. Not to mention, only 4 bowlers.
That series was a one off in terms of how bad the wickets were. I do agree it won't be a very high scoring test though.

I have already clarified about Smith and Ganga. Smith incidentally was chosen in NZL's all time test 11. She's dog both praore and mcculum.

We have 4 top bowlers and Clarke though I don't think he'll need to pick the ball up. You have 4 + hooper too unless I'm missing something.
 
They won't be bowling 90 overs in a day between them, though. How many do you plan to get from each on the first day? And how many from Gupte?

Not necessary that you need to bowl whole 90 over quote if bowling combo can bundle it with in 50-60
Spinner Gupte can be rotated with all three and if need Clarke can rotate his arm, not like today in those days fast bowlers used to go for long spells,which mean i can combine those middle overs well with spin.
 
They won't be bowling 90 overs in a day between them, though. How many do you plan to get from each on the first day? And how many from Gupte?
Are 4 bowlers + a part timer not enough in tests now? Don't think there's any side with 5 specialist bowlers in the draft.
 
Haven't checked those records, doubt the sample size is enough for the ones that played there, let alone the fact that few wouldn't even have played.
Well, I did check and only the 3 that played have a record in NZ. Clarke has played plenty there. Others not so much.

Edit: I guess conditions are just as important. Since we've used them to defend/attack other teams in this draft so far.
 
Well, I did check and only the 3 that played have a record in NZ. Clarke has played plenty there. Others not so much.
Yeah, thought so. The older guys wouldn't have played much there. As NM said, it's an indication of a seamer friendly wicket just like aus, sa, etc
 
Yeah, thought so. The older guys wouldn't have played much there. As NM said, it's an indication of a seamer friendly wicket just like aus, sa, etc
I wouldn't really agree with that. NZ wicket is very difficult to bat on. The ball swings so much sometimes. You don't see that in Aus and definitely not in SA. Closest would be England on a cold Old Trafford morning.
 
Not necessary that you need to bowl whole 90 over quote if bowling combo can bundle it with in 50-60
Are you really banking on that batting order to bundle up in 50-60 overs? They have Hooper coming in at 7, with the likes of Lara, Lloyd, Crowe, Hunte and others in there. There's absolutely no way possible where you can get them out in 50-60 overs.

This isn't the first time you've unfairly downplayed the opposition. You are speaking of them like they are pub level cricketers, when you are the ones who are actually sporting a sheep in the team which is a bigger weakness than anything else in this game. I haven't seen any such unreasonable remarks from @NM . In fact this is the third instance where you've really gone over the top in praising your team.

Are 4 bowlers + a part timer not enough in tests now? Don't think there's any side with 5 specialist bowlers in the draft.
They are, I was replying to the comment saying the three pacers will just easily run through the batting order before anyone else is needed. That is simply way too OTT and doesn't sit right with me.
 
Are you really banking on that batting order to bundle up in 50-60 overs? They have Hooper coming in at 7, with the likes of Lara, Lloyd, Crowe, Hunte and others in there. There's absolutely no way possible where you can get them out in 50-60 overs.

This isn't the first time you've unfairly downplayed the opposition. You are speaking of them like they are pub level cricketers, when you are the ones who are actually sporting a sheep in the team which is a bigger weakness than anything else in this game. I haven't seen any such unreasonable remarks from @NM . In fact this is the third instance where you've really gone over the top in praising your team.


They are, I was replying to the comment saying the three pacers will just easily run through the batting order before anyone else is needed. That is simply way too OTT and doesn't sit right with me.
Naah, that won't happen ofcourse, NM has a solid batting lineup.
 
I wouldn't really agree with that. NZ wicket is very difficult to bat on. The ball swings so much sometimes. You don't see that in Aus and definitely not in SA. Closest would be England on a cold Old Trafford morning.
I'm just saying what the venues are meant to indicate. When you get Eden for instance, it's supposed to reflect a batting pitch which will spin later. If you get Wellington, it's indicative of a seamer friendly track just like it would be at Perth or Johannesburg.
 
Are you really banking on that batting order to bundle up in 50-60 overs? They have Hooper coming in at 7, with the likes of Lara, Lloyd, Crowe, Hunte and others in there. There's absolutely no way possible where you can get them out in 50-60 overs.

This isn't the first time you've unfairly downplayed the opposition. You are speaking of them like they are pub level cricketers, when you are the ones who are actually sporting a sheep in the team which is a bigger weakness than anything else in this game. I haven't seen any such unreasonable remarks from @NM . In fact this is the third instance where you've really gone over the top in praising your team.


They are, I was replying to the comment saying the three pacers will just easily run through the batting order before anyone else is needed. That is simply way too OTT and doesn't sit right with me.

Then you miss took my argument there or i should have put in different way, i was about to say its possible as it had happened before as few good bowling line up had done it before.
No way i'm going to do it, infact i rate all 3 MO batsmen in his line up.
 
Are 4 bowlers + a part timer not enough in tests now? Don't think there's any side with 5 specialist bowlers in the draft.
Ours does :p. But anyway, I think the issue is not so much the number of bowlers as having 1-2 bowlers who can bowl a lot of overs when needed to give the others a rest. In your attack, I imagine this means Gupte will be sending down a lot of overs.
 
Can you make a precis of the write up.

I mean Kallicharan has [citation needed] in his writeup !
It'll barely take 5mins to read harshad. Or if you want me to say about someone in particular, tell me and I'll post it. On my phone so can't edit the entire thing.
 
Ours does :p. But anyway, I think the issue is not so much the number of bowlers as having 1-2 bowlers who can bowl a lot of overs when needed to give the others a rest. In your attack, I imagine this means Gupte will be sending down a lot of overs.
No arguments there. Clarke can chuck in few overs if needed though I don't think it will be. Bowlers at that time were used to longer spells too unlike modern players.
 
It'll barely take 5mins to read harshad. Or if you want me to say about someone in particular, tell me and I'll post it. On my phone so can't edit the entire thing.
I found it a lot easier, neater and a lot more comprehensible for the readers to use links to articles about these greats rather than copy posting parts out of articles, specially in the OP.

I could have easily gone on at least 3-4 posts just talking about McCabe, every single story of his is fascinating. :lol:
 
I read about Gupte some days back. Apparently The guy was timid. If batsmen attacked him he would lose confidence often. I don't think he will do well here.
 
I found it a lot easier, neater and a lot more comprehensible for the readers to use links to articles about these greats rather than copy posting parts out of articles, specially in the OP.

I could have easily gone on at least 3-4 posts just talking about McCabe, every single story of his is fascinating. :lol:
True enough. Wasn't sure if people would actually open them and read so Mani pasted the best bits here :p
 
I read about Gupte some days back. Apparently The guy was timid. If batsmen attacked him he would lose confidence often. I don't think he will do well here.
Considering the sides he bowled to especially the 3 Ws at WI and the great success he had there, that's bit of an old wives tale really.
 
Is NM using anyone as a part-timer or is it only going to be his main four?

Don't find the parts about Garry Sobers said so-and-so about Kanhai etc very convincing tbh. When I was going through our players there are plenty of quotes one can dig up from the GOATs over-hyping a contemporary player. I'm more interested in their batting/bowling styles and mental aspects.
 
Is NM using anyone as a part-timer or is it only going to be his main four?

Don't find the parts about Garry Sobers said so-and-so about Kanhai etc very convincing tbh. When I was going through our players there are plenty of quotes one can dig up from the GOATs over-hyping a contemporary player. I'm more interested in their batting/bowling styles and mental aspects.
Sobers' quotes aside, Gupte is an undisputed legend, so is Gibbs. Can't see one giving any significant advantage to their team over the other on their own. Of course only one of them is going to have to bowl to Brian Lara, and that can end in tears if the champ is in mood.
 
Sobers' quotes aside, Gupte is an undisputed legend, so is Gibbs. Can't see one giving any significant advantage to their team over the other on their own. Of course only one of them is going to have to bowl to Brian Lara, and that can end in tears if the champ is in mood.
Yeah I do rate Gupte and Gibbs. Not sure how important they will be on this pitch, however. I think the seamers matter more.
 
Considering the sides he bowled to especially the 3 Ws at WI and the great success he had there, that's bit of an old wives tale really.

His character did seem timid tbh. The whole getting kicked out due to a roommate asking a girl out. His response was 'what can I do to stop him. He is a big guy'
 
Yeah I do rate Gupte and Gibbs. Not sure how important they will be on this pitch, however. I think the seamers matter more.
Yup. Even though both are greats, it's the respective pace attacks that will matter.
 
His character did seem timid tbh. The whole getting kicked out due to a roommate asking a girl out. His response was 'what can I do to stop him. He is a big guy'
Eh? The reason he was kicked out was because be wasn't as timid as he was expected to be in the phone call. He shouted at the guy from the board saying the other guy is a grown up man and thus it isn't for Gupte to stop him. Seeing as the captain vouched for Gupte being with him in a different room at the time, it was more of an irritated response to an obviously bullshit accusation. Nothing timid there.
 
Can you make a precis of the write up.

I mean Kallicharan has [citation needed] in his writeup !
In a tortured 1982 season, when they usually had to sit and suffer, Warwickshire's followers could at least take comfort from the disciplined brilliance of ALVIN ISAAC KALLICHARRAN. The little West Indian left-hander was the only batsman on the county circuit to score 2,000 first-class runs, hitting three double-centuries and five other hundreds in the Schweppes Championship. He also played one great innings in limited-overs cricket, his 141 not out against Somerset at Taunton securing a shock NatWest Trophy quarter-final success. One shot in this innings will be particularly treasured by those who saw it. When the 6ft 8in Joel Garner came round the wicket to bounce one at him, perfectly positioned, 5ft 5in Kallicharran hooked his towering adversary high over square leg for 6 with stunning power.

Captain Bob Willis provided an apt testimony when he said: Alvin's Taunton knock contained a myriad of high-class shots. His stock-in-trade pulls and hooks were supplemented by a series of silken drives on the rise through the off. Somerset came apart at the seams.

Not that a bonanza summer was unexpected. A sequence of events paved the way for Kallicharran' s prolific output. Following two lean series, against England and Pakistan, he was dropped by West Indies, having scored 4,399 runs for them in 66 Tests at an average of 44. Then Transvaal stepped in with a lucrative winter contract. The first West Indian to compete in South Africa's Currie Cup, he averaged nearly 60 to finish third in the national list and inspire Transvaal to win the Benson and Hedges Floodlit Cup.

Banned by West Indies for having been to South Africa, Kallicharran returned to Birmingham with fire in his belly, a profusion of runs bursting to get out of him. And there was the added incentive of his 1983 county benefit being just a year away. Behind the sunny smile lies a steely, resolute character. His first century came at Dartford, followed by a career-best 235 at Worcester, his maiden double-hundred in first-class cricket.

Then, the day after Warwickshire had been swept aside for 43 by Sussex, he lifted them out of the dumps with 210 at Leicester. Gloucestershire were next on the list, being taken for 173 at Nuneaton. A week later came the Southport saga, Kallicharran scoring an undefeated 230 in an English record fourth-wicket stand of 470 with Geoff Humpage.

Edgbaston had yet to sample a Kallicharran special, but any voodoo was dispelled with 195 against Surrey, followed by 109 not out in the return against Worcestershire. Finally came the climax at Southampton. Kallicharran, the country's leading run-maker, versus Malcolm Marshall, the leading wicket-taker - a contest to savour. Kallicharran countered Marshall's extreme pace with unrivalled expertise, his second-innings 131 raising him past 2,000 runs for the first time in his career. Eight centuries in a summer equalled the Warwickshire record held jointly by R. E. S. Wyatt (1937) and Rohan Kanhai (1972).
http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdenalmanack/content/story/154469.html
 
Yeah agree with what Aldo and Harshad said. It's fine if the write up is long, but the write up seemed a little too chaotic and disorganized. Links are better or even well arranged para's are fine.

As for the game, I still think it will be a low scoring match. This debate about spinners, whilst fascinating won't really help in picking apart either teams. It's all about surviving each other's Pace attack.
Also, I don't know if this to be true or not, but aren't Marun's pace line-up a little too similar in terms of their strengths? I think NM's bowling is more varied, but I really don't know enough to make a proper judgement on it. Maybe someone can elaborate on the bowling styles ?
 
Feck, when did Guardiola join City ? :o. Spent so much time on the general forum that I never bothered to check the actual football forum.
 
Yeah agree with what Aldo and Harshad said. It's fine if the write up is long, but the write up seemed a little too chaotic and disorganized. Links are better or even well arranged para's are fine.

As for the game, I still think it will be a low scoring match. This debate about spinners, whilst fascinating won't really help in picking apart either teams. It's all about surviving each other's Pace attack.
Also, I don't know if this to be true or not, but aren't Marun's pace line-up a little too similar in terms of their strengths? I think NM's bowling is more varied, but I really don't know enough to make a proper judgement on it. Maybe someone can elaborate on the bowling styles ?
Holding, Tyson, and Garner are certainly of similar style. All right handed bowlers relying on extreme pace and bounce.

Feck, when did Guardiola join City ? :o. Spent so much time on the general forum that I never bothered to check the actual football forum.
I was recently shocked too.