Of course. Whatever happened to him? Just shows the mentality needed to win
And win again, year after year. I won’t in my lifetime see 3 players of this calibre
Tennis 2021
- Thread starter Sean_RedDevil
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And win again, year after year. I won’t in my lifetime see 3 players of this calibre
Federer naturally is the most graceful but I won't call Djokovic or Nadal boring. Some of the shots Djokovic has in his locker is amazing.
I’ve actually been shocked at how good his recovery has been when looking beaten. I think psychologically he has beaten the world’s best by never giving up a shot
Mentally he is a monster. Will never forget his Australian open final win against Nadal. I thought that was his breakthrough game where he showed to nadal and federer, I belong with you two.
Both mentality and natural ability really. He very often got to the latter stages only to lose to one of those guys. He's had injuries and not been all that relevant for some time now.
Had a very good career overall. Made another 6 Grandslam Finals and another 9 QFs. One of the consistent presences in the top 10 throughout the 2010s.
Never made another slam because he wasn't as good as the big 3 + Stan & Murray.
Funny thing about Stan. Probably had the best backhand out of all of them
Can’t believe Djoko came back from that, he looked totally shot by the end of 2nd. Incredible but his fitness is really crazy given his age. Much younger guys looking like they have gassed out time and time again after giving it a go at the beginning.
Djokvoic has the best mentality of any athlete of the 21st century by far
Tsitsipas looked absolutely distraught. He'll have more chances I'm sure - think he looks the most promising of the next generation of players.
Listen to yourself. Moronic not to enjoy a particular style. Not liking your darling isn't laughable, it's just a sign of different tastes.
You've had your grindy pushers r us clay season, now give us speed demons our turn!
Appreciated you a pretty broken man right now. But no bang average player has won Wimbledon - Stich, Kraijcek and Cash at a push, but they were better than Costa, Ferraro, Gaudio, Noah(all French) and most certainly Johansson and Korda(Aussie)
The female winners further back it up.
The US and Wimbledon will always be big ones. Clay has a classic allure, but the motivation goes where the true money is.
Fair enough
I really don't understand how people still fall for this. Djoko has looked shot/out of it/injured/fatigued in a LOT of matches which has he has gone on to win. Even at 2 sets down, you always knew it'll be Tsitsipas who blinks because he won't have the bottle to see it through. The minute he lost that tight game in the third, you knew it's inevitable.
Fair enough
I really don't understand how people still fall for this. Djoko has looked shot/out of it/injured/fatigued in a LOT of matches which has he has gone on to win. Even at 2 sets down, you always knew it'll be Tsitsipas who blinks because he won't have the bottle to see it through. The minute he lost that tight game in the third, you knew it's inevitable.
It's not just bottle though. I'd say Rafa - Djokovic came down to bottle or rather Rafa losing key moments. Tsitsipas just doesn't have the weapons to hurt the big 3 when they're really locked in.
In those moments, Federers serve locks him in with that incredible forehand. Nadals bomb of a forehand and that God like defence keeps him in every point. Djokovics return goes up a level where every service game for the opposition is a nightmare.
Tsitsipas just doesn't have that.
He might not have the weapons but he had enough to go 2 sets up on Djokovic. He had enough to take it to 5 last year as well and he had enough to be up a set and a break in Rome this year vs Novak and yet, he's lost all 3 matches. Once you get to those winnable positions, it means you do have the game to get the win but I don't think these guys are just good enough mentally to take that final crucial step and convert these 75% chances into wins.
I still disagree because I think Djokovic was 2 down today because he just wasn't playing well. He seemed a bit uncharacteristically jaded - which probably was because of the mental battle of the SF against Rafa. He losened up and came into his own in the 3rd though.
Btw I remember having the exact same argument years ago when Murray was labelled a serial bottler because he couldn't get past the big 3. The simple answer even back then was he was just not as good as the 3 GOATs - and he was even better than the current/next gen. These guys are just lucky they're playing against post prime versions of the big 3 unlike Murray so it looks like they're getting closer.
Putting aside how they stack up to the Djokovic/Federer/Nadal (because it'll likely be a long time before we see another player of that caliber), who do you think will be the best player of the next generation. I definitely like Tsitsipas' odds, as he is still quite young and is already consistently going deep into tournaments. Somehow Zverev doesn't seem to have the mentality for it (and the same obviously applies to Kyrgios, who I love.) Thiem is a possibility, but he's already 27 and has been on a serious post-US Open slump. Medvedev is another obvious candidate.
I agree with this assessment of Murray. Hell, just look at his 5 Aussie Open finals appearances over 7 years between 2010 and 2016. His losses are to Federer 1x and then Djokovic 4x.
Edited to add: his 1 French finals loss is also to Djokovic.
I think you're right - mainly because he's younger than the rest of them, and has achieved just as much if not more. But I think they might end up like the in-betweener generation of Hewitt, Roddick & Safin with the guys coming up next producing the next best player in the world.
I always think this with Murray. If he had been born the same year as Tim Henman, you Brits would talk about him in the same breath as so many former greats of the game.
He was an incredible player. Just slightly less incredible than the 3 actual greatest players of all time, who he was unlucky enough to meet in their primes.
He will never be the undisputed goat unless he finishes with more slam wins. Until that happens, all three will generally be considered level, which means there will continue to be debates.
Easy there.
But yes. He was the 4th best guy at a time when the 3 best to ever play were all playing.
I don’t know who it speaks more to, him or Djokovic, but his wins at the US Open, the Olympics, and in one of his Wimbledon titles were all against Djokovic too.
Ronaldo wouldn't be far off
Sorry I didn't look properly at who I was replying to!
I'd say Djokovic would look back and say the huge battles he had against Murray early in his career, helped shape him into the relentless competitor he became.
Congrats to Djokovic. Didnt expect him to win after going 2 sets down but what a comeback. I want to see him win all four and the Olympic gold.
Djokovic is the best athlete in the world at the moment in terms of mental strength.
He is just unreal in that regard.
He is just unreal in that regard.
Even if he finishes with more slam wins it will be debatable, it’s not all about who has the most slams.
False. People saying this have short memories. He’s obviously mentally tough but he’s had massive ups and downs in his career. He has periods when he looks invincible and then he goes into a slump and there were even moments IIRC when he didn’t even want to continue playing. Of the three, I think Nadal is the toughest mentally. He’s basically always present psychologically unless he is injured. Like a tennis machine. Novak is kind of like that, but more emotional, more human. Fed is my favourite but I think he is the weakest mentally (though easily the most talented).
Slams are obviously not the only criteria, but they are the main one. H2H, tournament wins, weeks at #1 etc. obviously factor in as well. Subjective arguments like who was more enjoyable to watch will also factor in, but it won't be anywhere as important as slams.
Absolute not, Djokvoic mentality is far better than nadals. If anything nadal has a mental block against Djokvoic unless he’s on clay. Djokovic has had far more impressive comebacks more often than either nadal or Federer. Nadal is #2 all time
ronaldo is good no doubt, but Djokovic is better and did it when the crowd is against him 95% of the time. Ronaldo sulks a lot more than Djokovic too
These GOAT talks are so fecking tedious. It's on partisan terms too. You have some Croats questioning Djokovic's greatness, you have some Barca fans diminishing Rafa's greatness (big Real Madrid fan apparently) and I guess Roger gets the most neutral vote for not offending anyone
Apart from recency bias, I think it's a stupid and pointless discussion, that's best left for a few years after all three retire...
Just grateful for the phenomenal and great tennis these three have produced, like the outrageous third set between Nole and Rafa a few days ago.
Apart from recency bias, I think it's a stupid and pointless discussion, that's best left for a few years after all three retire...
Just grateful for the phenomenal and great tennis these three have produced, like the outrageous third set between Nole and Rafa a few days ago.
These GOAT talks are so fecking tedious. It's on partisan terms too. You have some Croats questioning Djokovic's greatness, you have some Barca fans diminishing Rafa's greatness (big Real Madrid fan apparently) and I guess Roger gets the most neutral vote for not offending anyone
Apart from recency bias, I think it's a stupid and pointless discussion, that's best left for a few years after all three retire...
Just grateful for the phenomenal and great tennis these three have produced, like the outrageous third set between Nole and Rafa a few days ago.
Rafa is an amazing player, nothing to diminish there, but he’s not better than Djokovic
No tennis player past or present is mentally far better than Nadal. You can make the argument that there are some who are better but far better?
Agreed. Rafa at his peak had incredible mental fitness. Djokovic probably edges him in this department, but the difference between the two is negligible.
fair enough, nadal is a beast but Djokovic has the best mentality of any athlete in this century for me
I like Djokovic, but the guy is a tool as well - so.... The Goat is still Pete Sampras for me.
I wouldn’t even say they are the main one, though they are important. This is a very modern idea, that the person with the most slams is the best. I think it started when Sampras got to 14 and people started calling him the GOAT. Before that, no one thought that Emerson was better than Laver or that Court was better than Navratilova. Of course it is complicated by the advent of the Open Era.