Tennis 2021

The whole Osaka thing is a fiasco.

Mari Osaka wrote a post on twitter yesterday (since deleted) saying that the decision to not do press was strategic (and not depression) since the press keeps going with the claim that she isn't good on clay and that goes into Naomi's mind.

And now this PR-withdrawal claiming depression since 2018.

A lot of tennis journalists are garbage (including the guy from the Konta interview above) but I also don't have a lot of confidence in the Osakas here.
 
Osaka may well suffer with depression and anxiety and should be supported in this regard, but she is blatantly using mental illness for personal agenda the same way Williams invoked sexism after her meltdown.

I suspect we're going to see a trend of this, popular PR narratives spun to distract from petty or petulant behaviour
 
SinNombre said:
The whole Osaka thing is a fiasco.

Mari Osaka wrote a post on twitter yesterday (since deleted) saying that the decision to not do press was strategic (and not depression) since the press keeps going with the claim that she isn't good on clay and that goes into Naomi's mind.

And now this PR-withdrawal claiming depression since 2018.

A lot of tennis journalists are garbage (including the guy from the Konta interview above) but I also don't have a lot of confidence in the Osakas here.
Click to expand...
So that starts to make a mockery of claims of depression.
We’ve seen people now open up about the illness and for someone to claim that her admission is a hoax due to her not being good on clay is really.. well.. depressing for what of a better word
 
SER19 said:
Osaka may well suffer with depression and anxiety and should be supported in this regard, but she is blatantly using mental illness for personal agenda the same way Williams invoked sexism after her meltdown.

I suspect we're going to see a trend of this, popular PR narratives spun to distract from petty or petulant behaviour
Click to expand...
Sorry how can you concur that someone may suffer from depression then in the same breath claim she’s using it for a personal agenda? They either are sick or aren’t. You and others are only expressing an opinion. There’s no proof that we’ll see an increase in these admissions to distract from petulant behaviour
 
Inigo Montoya said:
So that starts to make a mockery of claims of depression.
We’ve seen people now open up about the illness and for someone to claim that her admission is a hoax due to her not being good on clay is really.. well.. depressing for what of a better word
Click to expand...

wtf are you typing.

Her not being good on clay is exactly what her sister wrote on Reddit before the PR-bots got to it and had her delete it.

Tennis has a lot of issues with depression. Just go and read the accounts of the hundreds of guys and girls slogging out between 150 and 1000 in the rankings, playing in godforsaken places with no support with the best case outcome for a week that they make a thousand or two before taxes and expenses. And then travel in the cheapest way possible to the next location, rinse repeat. No coaches, no physios, no family, nothing.
 
Last edited:
SinNombre said:
wtf are you typing.

Her not being good on clay is exactly what her sister wrote on Reddit before the PR-bots got to it and had her delete it.
Click to expand...
And annoying questions during pressers aren't going to contribute to her mental health if she has social anxiety during those situations. You can either be in the camp that says she just has to suck it up as a professional athlete and it's an obligation to do pressers just like any other obligation associated with your job, or you can support her and her decision not to talk to the press (which would obviously improve both her mental health and in turn perhaps her performances on the court, so in that sense it can indeed be qualified as strategic but I doubt that was her main goal).

Situations like these could easily be avoided if the WTA and its players had a good and open communication with each other. Surely a solution somewhere in the middle for both parties could've been achieved had any dialogue taken place. I just hope she takes take off to get right again and stays cautious about her mental health before she thinks about playing tennis at the highest level again. Luckily she's already being supported by NBA and NFL superstars on social media as well.
 
Sounds like it was strategic after all. As in, “Even though all players do pressers, I tend to feel sad when journos ask about my clay court game and therefore won’t be doing them anymore, even though all other players will have to continue doing them”.

 
Last edited:
Raoul said:
Sounds like it was strategic after all. As in, “Even though all players do pressers, I tend to feel sad when journos as about my clay court game and therefore won’t be doing them anymore, even though all other players will have to continue doing them”.

Click to expand...


Family members don't often understand the nature of mental illness.

If somebody is high functioning they will hide their problems and speak in general terms of 'sadness' etc.

I think Osaka has been calculated, but only in the sense that she believes she can promote change whilst strengthening her image. But since she most likely experiences strong anxiety and depression, what better person?
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Sorry how can you concur that someone may suffer from depression then in the same breath claim she’s using it for a personal agenda? They either are sick or aren’t. You and others are only expressing an opinion. There’s no proof that we’ll see an increase in these admissions to distract from petulant behaviour
Click to expand...

Her sister pretty much conceded that it was a strategic decision, and osaka herself was not subtle in her words before she stopped attending. After the fact, she got fined and reprimanded, then pulled out and said her illness was the reason for her absence from media engagements and ignoring of press.

You can simultaneously be completely sympathetic to her illness and wish her absolutely every bit of support, and be suspicious that it wasn't the sole reason she blanked the media in the first place. They are not mutually exclusive the same way a person suffering with depression can also be a highly functional professional athlete

In re reading my initial post it seems harsh and unfair to use the word 'is' as she is almost certainly stepping away for her health. 'Was' would be a better word choice as it seems likely she initially blanked them for other reasons
 
Last edited:
For those not sure what to think Piers Morgan has made it easy for you.......
Im sure you can work it out.

Oiers is a cock
 
Sorry, I don't understand the subtleties of the sport - what aim would she achieve by withdrawing mid-tournament that she couldn't achieve by just not showing up?

For the record, I have complete sympathy with her decision as I think media in general lacks empathy and they're just a bunch of hacks
 
Suedesi said:
Sorry, I don't understand the subtleties of the sport - what aim would she achieve by withdrawing mid-tournament that she couldn't achieve by just not showing up?

For the record, I have complete sympathy with her decision as I think media in general lacks empathy and they're just a bunch of hacks
Click to expand...

I don't think she has an aim other than to be left alone to play Tennis, which given the story this has become, wouldn't really be possible for the rest of the tournament. Therefore bowing out and recharging (and hoping the story eventually fades away) would seem like a decent option.
 
All seems a bit much. As a sportsman or public figure, being criticized and questioned is part of the package. You have to accept it or not partake. These press conferences are mandatory to attend surely even if 'they aren't paid to do it' as her sister says.

Metal health is obviously very important. But I'm not sure a player this affected by the criticism and who isn't able to do press conferences, should be playing in a high profile high pressure event in the first place.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
All seems a bit much. As a sportsman or public figure, being criticized and questioned is part of the package. You have to accept it or not partake. These press conferences are mandatory to attend surely even if 'they aren't paid to do it' as her sister says.

Metal health is obviously very important. But I'm not sure a player this affected by the criticism and who isn't able to do press conferences, should be playing in a high profile high pressure event in the first place.
Click to expand...
Simplistic and short sighted.
 
This is a tough one. As someone who has had mental health issues myself, I certainly have sympathy. Yet, there will always be an element to life which is about survival of the fittest, and in competitive sports there is the safest possible version of that. To be the best you have to have not only the physical goods but the mental toughness too. If Osaka is finding that hard, she doesn’t have to do it anymore. She made 55mm last year. She’ll be fine if she packs it in.

I feel the way she has gone about this is all wrong. She should have gone to the tournament organisers privately and explained to them her mental health issues and seen if something could’ve been worked out. By all accounts all four grand slam organisers have attempted to talk to her in the wake of her initial proclamation, and not had any response. So to be honest I am not sure what she or anyone else is expecting.

She essentially posted on social media that she would be violating some very clearly mandatory requirements of her job, acknowledged she would be sanctioned for it, and so implicitly conveyed that she didn’t care. She then ignored attempts by organisers to contact her, played a match, and promptly broke afore mentioned rules. She’s now quitting the tournament because she was sanctioned….. She backed everyone else into a corner over this and is surprised they defended the integrity of their competition rules? She honestly shouldn’t have shown up if she was unable to handle the pressure.

Mental health issues are very real, and support is needed for everyone suffering from them. But the sufferers themselves have to also help themselves. If you can’t handle pressure, then it seems unrealistic to have a high pressure job. You can’t be a CEO, for instance, but then not comply with regulatory or compliance issues because you don’t like dealing with pressure situations. Just like you probably shouldn’t become a professional tennis player with tons of endorsements, if you don’t like being in the public eye. Incidentally, there is no mention in her complaint about not being able to handle the pressure of very well paid public appearances for sponsors. Just for unpaid press ones where people may ask tough questions.

All in all I think this has been handled very poorly all around. I hope Osaka finds her peace, and to do that it seems like she should take some time off tennis. Her first step should be to see a therapist.
 
Raoul said:
Sounds like it was strategic after all. As in, “Even though all players do pressers, I tend to feel sad when journos ask about my clay court game and therefore won’t be doing them anymore, even though all other players will have to continue doing them”.

Click to expand...


Yea that post does not put her in a good light. Saying that you don't have a good record in clay is not a poor question from a journalist at all when you consider that she hasn't gotten past the 3rd round of the French Open yet.

It very clearly says that she's doing this to better her chances of winning the French Open, any that seems strategic rather than an actual reason of mental health.

If she is very concerned about her mental health, she should've withdrawn from the tournament and sought some help. Players in other sports have done that, though that's not too say mental health isn't an issue in professional sports.

Part of the money she gets paid on her job is from sponsors and broadcasters who pay for access to players before and after matches, if she doesn't want to participate in that then she should also accept a lower amount of prize money.
 
The strategic decision people are taking from that reddit post, is one taken to protect her mental health.

At the end of the day, it wasn't Naoimi Osaka who decided that speaking to journalists is now an essential part of playing tennis. It wasn't even tennis players who decided this.

It was all the leeches who grow wealthier and wealthier from exploiting athletes and supporters in every professional sport.

Tennis and elite competitions within it existed before 24/7 news coverage. Now people are suggesting that a world class athlete shouldn't compete at the highest level if she doesn't want to deal with the media circus. How desperately sad is that?

Someone else suggested that if she doesn't want to deal with the press, she should accept lower pay. Has anyone offered her that option?

The people making those decisions don't give a feck if she jeopardises her own future earnings by refusing to engage with journalists because they are far more worried she might jeopardise theirs.
 
Just noticed Federer is facing Cilic in the 2nd round. Apparently Cilic is now ranked #44 in the world. :eek:
 
Raoul said:
Just noticed Federer is facing Cilic in the 2nd round. Apparently Cilic is now ranked #44 in the world. :eek:
Click to expand...
The last time they played was in the Australian Open final in 2018 too!
 
diarm said:
The strategic decision people are taking from that reddit post, is one taken to protect her mental health.

At the end of the day, it wasn't Naoimi Osaka who decided that speaking to journalists is now an essential part of playing tennis. It wasn't even tennis players who decided this.

It was all the leeches who grow wealthier and wealthier from exploiting athletes and supporters in every professional sport.

Tennis and elite competitions within it existed before 24/7 news coverage. Now people are suggesting that a world class athlete shouldn't compete at the highest level if she doesn't want to deal with the media circus. How desperately sad is that?

Someone else suggested that if she doesn't want to deal with the press, she should accept lower pay. Has anyone offered her that option?

The people making those decisions don't give a feck if she jeopardises her own future earnings by refusing to engage with journalists because they are far more worried she might jeopardise theirs.
Click to expand...

Irrespective of the merits of your argument, which is sound IMO, the fact remains that the press conferences are a mandatory part of her job and the huge earnings that go with it. This is true of most jobs, where there are stressful elements that go with elevated pay.

Now, by announcing she wouldn’t be doing the press portion, without engaging in dialogue with the tournament organisers, she has forced everyone into a corner. “Oh no, don’t worry, sorry you find it stressful, don’t worry about it, the rules don’t apply to you” isn’t a response that any tournament organisers can afford to make if they want to preserve the integrity of their structure. Because it opens the door to a flood of violations across the board.

If she wanted to highlight the issue publicly by making a stand, she should’ve announced that she wouldn’t be playing Roland Garros because of the effect the press conferences had on her mental health and engaged in meaningful conversation with the authorities to drive lasting change. I can guarantee that most stakeholders would’ve been with her.

So while I sympathise with her position, I don’t agree with how she’s gone about it at all. And unfortunately everyone has reacted predictably and we are now in the typical situation we get in modern society where the two sides are deeply entrenched in opposing camps with hardly anyone sensibly occupying the middle ground. It’s already become a old white men vs everyone else narrative, whereas the issue itself (mental health, employment requirements, protocol, communication, privacy) cut across gender, race, and creed.
 
diarm said:
It was all the leeches who grow wealthier and wealthier from exploiting athletes and supporters in every professional sport.
Click to expand...

What nonsense is this.

Elite athletes earnings have gone up exponentially.

Osaka earned more in one year in 2020 (in the midst of a global pandemic) than Navratilova earned in her entire career (adjusted for inflation), and the latter won 18 singles Grand Slams and 59 in total including doubles in her very long and prodigious career.

The gap between the top athletes and the ones who are slightly lower, has never been worse. And it is the same in every sport. How can anyone with a straight face claim that, when Messi earns 50m+ in guaranteed payments from Barca who are a billion in debt.

The biggest financial issue with sports is how the elite athletes are keeping all the money and the very good are barely surviving, and how quickly that inequality is growing. Just because the Glazers are leeches doesn't mean the French tennis federation or Wimbledon are.

This is India's #1 tennis player, ranked around 130 in the world - https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/29601304/if-play-money-sumit-nagal-hopes-us-open-worth-risk

James mcGee (former Irish #1 with a career best of 140) has a lot on his blog on how bad things are - https://jamesmcgeetennis.com/2013/06/24/financing-the-tour/
 
diarm said:
The strategic decision people are taking from that reddit post, is one taken to protect her mental health.

At the end of the day, it wasn't Naoimi Osaka who decided that speaking to journalists is now an essential part of playing tennis. It wasn't even tennis players who decided this.

It was all the leeches who grow wealthier and wealthier from exploiting athletes and supporters in every professional sport.

Tennis and elite competitions within it existed before 24/7 news coverage. Now people are suggesting that a world class athlete shouldn't compete at the highest level if she doesn't want to deal with the media circus. How desperately sad is that?

Someone else suggested that if she doesn't want to deal with the press, she should accept lower pay. Has anyone offered her that option?

The people making those decisions don't give a feck if she jeopardises her own future earnings by refusing to engage with journalists because they are far more worried she might jeopardise theirs.
Click to expand...
Remember this? so much of sports journalism is just lazy reporting that serves no real purpose.

 
SinNombre said:
What nonsense is this.

Elite athletes earnings have gone up exponentially.

Osaka earned more in one year in 2020 (in the midst of a global pandemic) than Navratilova earned in her entire career (adjusted for inflation), and the latter won 18 singles Grand Slams and 59 in total including doubles in her very long and prodigious career.

The gap between the top athletes and the ones who are slightly lower, has never been worse. And it is the same in every sport. How can anyone with a straight face claim that, when Messi earns 50m+ in guaranteed payments from Barca who are a billion in debt.

The biggest financial issue with sports is how the elite athletes are keeping all the money and the very good are barely surviving, and how quickly that inequality is growing. Just because the Glazers are leeches doesn't mean the French tennis federation or Wimbledon are.

This is India's #1 tennis player, ranked around 130 in the world - https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/29601304/if-play-money-sumit-nagal-hopes-us-open-worth-risk

James mcGee (former Irish #1 with a career best of 140) has a lot on his blog on how bad things are - https://jamesmcgeetennis.com/2013/06/24/financing-the-tour/
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what points you are trying to make here, or what points you think I was trying to make. What do the Glazers or the inequality between No1 and No130 in the world have to do with my point? The fact that there is such imbalance there is just more proof that the priorities within modern sport are all wrong.

I am not suggesting Osaka is hard done by financially, merely that her being well paid for being one of the best players in the world does not mean she should grin and bear being subjected to unnecessary and non-sporting duties with which she is clearly uncomfortable with.

When I speak of leeches, it's not just the old, rich white men who call the shots in the tennis federations I'm referring to, but also the lazy, middle aged white men who pass as sorry excuses for sports journalists, who earn decent livings from turning up to press conferences, asking dumb questions, hope for something they can sensationalise a story with and if they don't get it, just make something up anyway.

This article spells it out better than I have. Had I read it before 10 minutes ago, perhaps my earlier post would've been clearer.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ot...-scrutiny-on-media-not-her-1.4580924?mode=amp

In other news, could this have been timed any worse?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/57319108

Two-time Grand Slam champion Petra Kvitova has withdrawn from the French Open because of a freak ankle injury sustained during her post-match media duties.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
I kinda will always go back to a Nadal-type opinion to these kinds of matters. It's a small sacrifice you make in a grand scheme of things where, in his words, you are "very lucky" to be and and do as a career.

Nadal and Djokovic have been answering questions about each other for the last 10 years in just about every press conference. There is a constant attempt by the media to portray them as hating each other.

I imagine Zverev, Tsitsipas, Thiem and Medvedev have to face regular questions about why they still cannot beat 3 men with broken bodies approaching pensioner status.

I've not watched an Osaka press conference, but I seem to remember she was something of a media darling at one time?
While I understand her point of view, I'm surprised that she actually takes the media so seriously, when we all know the point of them is to sell clicks and headlines.
Also, I thought the initial point of her refusal was the sudden timing, and having to do press right after a loss? That's what I initially read.

On the other hand, I'm glad she's doing what she thinks is best for her, until she feels ready to handle all that comes with the sport again.
 
diarm said:
When I speak of leeches, it's not just the old, rich white men who call the shots in the tennis federations I'm referring to, but also the lazy, middle aged white men who pass as sorry excuses for sports journalists, who earn decent livings from turning up to press conferences, asking dumb questions, hope for something they can sensationalise a story with and if they don't get it, just make something up anyway.
Click to expand...
I dunno mate, if you tell me that I have to now have to travel around the the professional tennis tour and trying to write articles that barely anyone reads, I'd really really not be looking forward to it. I doubt they make that much money either.
 
MTF said:
I dunno mate, if you tell me that I have to now have to travel around the the professional tennis tour and trying to write articles that barely anyone reads, I'd really really not be looking forward to it. I doubt they make that much money either.
Click to expand...

Depends on the articles doesn't it? Nobody is going to read lazy, half arsed articles written in ten minutes by some neckbeard who goes to a press conference and throws something together off a couple of sterilised quotes.

But find a writer who watches the games and writes well researched articles with real insight and new content, and people will read them. It's the reason the traditional newspapers are on their arses but sites like The Athletic are doing well.

Press conferences serve no purpose. The idea that they provide a link between the sports stars and the public went out the window with the dawn of social media and the actions of gutter journalists has resulted in athletes being so guarded and media trained that all you're getting is a series of stock, manicured answers to bland, predictable questions anyway.
 
Sports journos are closer to gossip columists and headline generating trolls than actual journos imo.
 
diarm said:
Depends on the articles doesn't it? Nobody is going to read lazy, half arsed articles written in ten minutes by some neckbeard who goes to a press conference and throws something together off a couple of sterilised quotes.

But find a writer who watches the games and writes well researched articles with real insight and new content, and people will read them. It's the reason the traditional newspapers are on their arses but sites like The Athletic are doing well.

Press conferences serve no purpose. The idea that they provide a link between the sports stars and the public went out the window with the dawn of social media and the actions of gutter journalists has resulted in athletes being so guarded and media trained that all you're getting is a series of stock, manicured answers to bland, predictable questions anyway.
Click to expand...

This
 
Great day ahead, all the big ones are playing. Đoković, Berrettini, Nadal, Schwartzmann and Ćilić.

Pairs first favourites, Mektić and Pavić withdrew. Some rumours say one or both have the chinese flu.
 
Entertaining match between Roger and Cilic! I could barely concentrate on my job :D

Glad Roger got through and really enjoyed 'towel/slow gate' :lol: Never seen Roger that angry. It was funny but luckily he calmed down eventually and won the match.
 
nice match. even when he lost the second set, it was more about cilic raising his level than federer reducing his. a little less sparkle than in the first round but, again, he wasn't shankerer, he was just facing a better player who made the shots harder.
 
berbatrick said:
nice match. even when he lost the second set, it was more about cilic raising his level than federer reducing his. a little less sparkle than in the first round but, again, he wasn't shankerer, he was just facing a better player who made the shots harder.
Click to expand...
I thought it was a good test for him, and to see how his knee held up.

He needs as many matches as he can get before Wimbledon.
 
My prediction of Ruud making the SF is now over. From that section, Zverev surely must make the SF. Nishikori in R4 and one of Davidovich-Fokin or Delbonis in the QF.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.