I didn't think it was too bad, certainly not anywhere near as bad as that US Open match they had which was way over the top.
Tennis 2019
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Nadal was the only one who could consistently challenge and beat prime Federer (04-07). Novak wasn't a factor at that time, and Fed did beat him the 2 matches they had met (AO SF and US final of 2007).
For people who think I'm being selective about marking a prime, you can look up his win percentages by year. Year-long percentages will be less influenced by things like the form of rivals, etc, since they are mostly determined by winning the smaller matches consistently. He dropped off big-time in 2008, not just to Nadal but generally. And while he had a few bright spots after that (2009, 2012), none are comparable to peak 04-07... till we get to 2017 (92%), a year when Djokovic was again a non-factor.
Win percentages: 04-07
93/95/95/88
81% in 2008, a sharp fall.
(For reference, Nadal in 2007 was 8-6 vs Federer: 6-1 on clay, 0-2 on grass, 2-1 on outdoor hard, 0-2 on indoor grass.
At the same moment Federer was 5-1 vs Nole, 3-1 on hard outdoor and 1-0 each on indoor and clay.
Since then, Nadal pulled away a lot (23-10) before Fed caught up a bit (24-16). Djokovic matched him in 2015 and hasn't lost since.)
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He's been here before so he'll pull himself back mentally. He's also lucky the field is so poor right now that the odds of an upset before a SF are pretty low at all Slams and all he needs is one Slam where he doesn't run into Novak or Rafa or gets one of them in poor form. He's clearly shown he's more than good enough to still compete with both of them in one off matches.
Not that it's his fault but the mere presence of Federer on court brings out the worst in a lot of crowds around the world (unless it's Rafa on the other side).
2015 Wimbledon and US Open finals were worse than today, it was still pretty bad though.
Cheering double faults and booing him near the end for asking the umpire a question was ridiculous. Djokovic's reaction at the end said it all really, barely celebrated, gave a big grin to the crowd and didn't even do his usual celebration thanking the crowd when he's done it for pretty much every single match for years now.
If he get's lucky with draws and Novak being off form he still has a chance to get another.
If he plays USO like in 2017 and 18, no way. Even if he is on form and Novak is off-form, the block now will be like Nadal after 2009. He needs the ghost of Stan or Nadal to take care of Djokovic.
Yup. It doesn't need to be as bad as the other two occasions to still be a terrible crowd. I understand this in other sports like football but this is not a sport where you expect crowds to behave this way unless it's a Davis Cup but unfortunately this has become the norm in any tight Federer matches all across the world.
Nadal's got his own issues trying to beat either of these 2 now away from clay.
No idea what that has to do with what I said.
The head to head between Federer and Djokovic is skewed both ways. Yes Djokovic is beating old man Federer. Federer was beating young man Djokovic. Their primes never came together like Nadal or Federer. Nadal grew up a lot faster than Djokovic and Murray even though their a year difference between them.
Also id say looking back at his career, Federer will say 2009 was one of his best years ever. If he didn’t have that year then the GOAT debate would go against him widely because he hadn’t won one particular grand slam.
04-07 the field was weak also besides Roddick and Nadal. Roddick didn’t have the game to trouble Federer.
You could also argue from 2007 onwards that Nadal was getting better on more surfaces. Murray was getting few victories over Federer too but not in important matches though.
I'm saying the primes of both Federer and Djokovic never matched, and that when Fed was in his prime only Nadal consistently troubled him. So it is equally valid to say that the H2H for Djoko suffered since he was before his prime in 04-07, while for Fed he was well past his prime in 2016 (when Djokovic took the H2H lead).
We can speculate about the Djokovic of 2011 or 2015 vs Fed of 2005 or 06, but unlike with Rafa we never got to see it.
If he plays like he did today, he has a very good chance of winning another slam.
Would have set up the season nicely if Federer had won today as would have meant all three won on their dominant surfaces leading up to the US open.
The next gen of players have decent records vs Djokovic if they can manage to get to the second week to face him.
Zverev record against big three
2-3 vs Djokovic
0-5 vs Nadal
3-3 vs Federer
Tsitsipas record vs big three
1-1 vs Djokovic
1-4 vs Nadal
1-1 vs Federer
Kyrgios has good records vs them and I hope him and Novak meet at the Us open. Thiems beaten Djokovic 3 times albeit on clay. These guys don’t have the mental scars like Nishikori, Raionic and Cillic. It’s more up to these players rather than the ones who have lost to Djokovic time and time again. Stan looks done physically but still on his day has the talent to blow anybody off the court. Not sure about Nadal on hardcourts and whether his knees are good enough to sustain two weeks. He has picked up injured after us open and Aussie open in the last year.
The next gen of players have decent records vs Djokovic if they can manage to get to the second week to face him.
Zverev record against big three
2-3 vs Djokovic
0-5 vs Nadal
3-3 vs Federer
Tsitsipas record vs big three
1-1 vs Djokovic
1-4 vs Nadal
1-1 vs Federer
Kyrgios has good records vs them and I hope him and Novak meet at the Us open. Thiems beaten Djokovic 3 times albeit on clay. These guys don’t have the mental scars like Nishikori, Raionic and Cillic. It’s more up to these players rather than the ones who have lost to Djokovic time and time again. Stan looks done physically but still on his day has the talent to blow anybody off the court. Not sure about Nadal on hardcourts and whether his knees are good enough to sustain two weeks. He has picked up injured after us open and Aussie open in the last year.
To be fair I can’t stand stats like this. Federer had only one way of playing today and that’s go for his shots. Obviously there were few points he could have played more conservative. But Djokovics style of play was to keep the rallies longer, which Federer does not want so he had to go for broke. If Federer decided he’s going to make the rallies longer it probably would have been over a lot earlier for him.
Thiem apart, the wins these kids get against Djokovic are all in Best of 3 set formats. When they regularly start making it to the 2nd week of Slams, they'll realize just how difficult it is to face Novak.
As for Nadal, he's got a good chance at the USO if he himself can also get a decent enough draw and try avoid Djokovic.
I think you might be focusing on the wrong side of that stat.
Yeah but they at masters event which we know Djokovic takes seriously. You have to start somewhere. Raonic has not beaten Djokovic in his career and look how long he’s been around. Nishikori is 2-16 to him, so he’s beaten him the same times as Zverev. Yes best of five is tougher, but it helps knowing you beaten this guy before mentally.
Djokovic does care about Masters but over the last 2 years his results there have gotten increasingly erratic with a fair number of shocks. R2 and R3 exits at IW and Miami this year (R1 at both of them last year), R3 at Montreal last year and some other random results. He's lost to Kohlschreiber and RBA at IW and Miami this year and yet he beat them comfortably enough at Wimbledon, he's lost to Zverev at some masters titles but the one time he faced him at a Slam he won in straights. I just think Novak has gotten to a stage where he's not that great at the Masters (by his standards) and just peaks for the Slams now.
Agreed. The booing was quite ridiculous really.
Djokovic gets too much unwarranted hate. He seems like one of these genuine funny guys and a top player too.
It's the kind of stuff we'll see until Federer retires and crowds don't have a God they worship to the extent they boo his rivals.
He is the Mourinho of tennis. His play style makes it difficult for people to warm to but off the court he is clearly quite a nice bloke.
Feck that crowd and Nole haters, good on you Novak!
Sensational game.
Fed had it, but I thought he was overly aggressively when he was 40-30 up on championship point, but hindsight is 20-20.
Incredible game. Huge credit to Djokovic. Had to fight back when he was down 2 championship points and won all 3 tiebreaks.
Fed had it, but I thought he was overly aggressively when he was 40-30 up on championship point, but hindsight is 20-20.
Incredible game. Huge credit to Djokovic. Had to fight back when he was down 2 championship points and won all 3 tiebreaks.
Mourinho? What?
Yet he’s been involved in classic matches with Del Potro, Nadal, Federer and Murray.
If you naming top 10 matches in tennis. Djokovic would be featured in most of the matches on that list. Something you can’t say about Mourinho when it comes to football.
Djokovic and Nadal are fun to watch. They ain’t got a big serve to bail them out like Federer. But Djokovics forehand or backhand aren’t appreciated enough.
It will derail the thread completely but Mourinho been involed in classic matches. And Mou Chelsea & Inter were fun to watch team(Plus Djokovic played a similar role as Mourinho team in those matches). Just look at Djokovic performance today and it couldn't be more of a classic Mourinho performance.
But anyway my main point was that they are both seen as cold hearted due to their actions on the count/pitch and get a ton of unwarranted hate when the reality is away from sport they are both quite genuine and nice.
Incredible match. Federer was the better player IMO except for in tie breaks and that's how fine the margins are sometimes. Gutted for him as he has the match in his hands and list it. Then again, I suppose Djokovic had it too albiet not match points but 4-2 up in the 5th and all set to win the title.
It's more of the love in for Federer at Wimbledon.
Bad analogy, Nadal would be appropriate comparison to Mourinho style wise.
even more than when he saved those 2 match points, I was more surprised with the fact that Djokovic managed to last that long in the match without his first serve. any other player serving like him yesterday wouldn't stand a chance against Fed. when you compare the amount of free points Federer got with his serve alone and the effort Djokovic had to put into his service games, it's even more incredible that he managed to win in the end.
If Federer manages his schedule carefully he'll be a threat at the US Open. In the last few years both him and Nadal almost seem too broken by that time of the year, so they need to be sensible with their scheduling and training.
But it seems the way even when hes not playing Fed. Its like hes seen as anti-tennis at times.
Federer has played 2 more tournaments already this year compare to last at same stage, mainly due to playing clay season this year. He looks in good shape though. He will most likely skip Canada Masters again and only play Cincinnati. Should be fine if draw is decent and he can move till QF/SF by spending as less hours as possible.
Indeed
Although it’s a huge loss missing out on 2 CP’s yesterday for Federer, the tennis he produced yesterday at 37, the quality of it, is nothing shy of an utter miracle, it’s a level good enough to win a Grand Slam if he can keep it up for another several months, who knows. Not to knock Djokovic in any way but he was outplayed yesterday, he was just on when it came to the important points in those tie breaks, the mental strength to win them all was stunning on his part.
Only thing with the US Open is wether or not this Wimbledon has burnt Federer out mentally, although Fed sounded quite positive in his press conference, but we shal see.
Think only issue is will Nole cover the same amount of court at 37 as he does now? It's still a huge part of his game to return from all angles and wait for opponent to make an error.
I actually thought yesterday was his worst slam final performance for a long time. When he lost the two finals in recent years to Wawrinka you had Stan gloriously painting the lines with his backhand for a couple of sets in each final so little he could really do.
In this final his first serve was pretty much below 50% first two sets and he didn't even get a break point until halfway throught the fourth. Fed serving very well of course but thought the return on second serves was well below all match.
Anyway what won it yesterday was simply mentality and certainly Nole is ahead of even Nadal at that imo.
I thought this was more historical match between the three than Wimbledon 2008 aswell. If Fed had just banged down another ace at 40-15 he'd be six slams ahead of Djokovic. At 32 that's still a tough gap to chase down. He'd also have been three ahead of Nadal, decent lead when you think Nadal has won just two slams outside of Clay since October 2010.
I think after yesterday Federer is going to be surpassed by both (Nadal is very likely to win another 2-3 FOs) and Djokovic could have another three slams by end of 2020. That was the defining moment.
Djokovic is maybe the best athlete to ever play tennis. Injury permitting, I think there's a good chance that he's still the best athlete in the game at 37.
But you never know who's around the corner.
He won't. That's why he needs to reach 20, assuming Fed stops at 20, by 2021 end. That's 9 more slams to get 4.