Yeah agree, I was just pointing out that being 6 years younger isn't that big of an advantage given the context.
I also think Novak will end up as the goat as the overall concensus
Tennis 2019
- Thread starter Brophs
- Start date
I also think Novak will end up as the goat as the overall concensus
The Fed-Djoko rivalry is a fascinating one. They always produce quality matches and I have always felt that Federer has no fear at all of Djokovic as he may have with Nadal, but Nole has won so many big matches against him through being that touch mentally tougher at key moments. Privilege to watch all 3 of them, incredible sport.
They are useless.
It's actually quite bizarre. Last time Fed beat Djokovic in a Grand Slam was in 2012. Most of the matches since have all been very balanced but Djokovic always takes it due to the big points.
In the 2015 US Open final, Djokovic won in 4 sets despite having won only 2 more points in the entire match iirc. Had 7 or 8 break points to Federer's 23.
Novak
Fed was the better player. He will retire at 40.
Fed was the better player. He will retire at 40.
Federer was amazing, the way he's playing at his age is nothing short of spectacular. You can see the adjustments he made to go along with his age. He's changing the rhythm a lot more, playing on the net.
People that are saying he outclassed Đoković today, gotta be incredibly salty and deluded to say that. Was he better? Maybe, but people are forgetting that his amazing serve is what kept him ahead for the majority of time.
Both are great champions and we're privileged for having the opportunity to watch them, alongside Nadal, going head to head.
Wimbledon crowd reaching new lows every year lately. I understand they favor Federer and in well within their rights of course, but the way they're cheering Novak' mistakes is shocking.
People that are saying he outclassed Đoković today, gotta be incredibly salty and deluded to say that. Was he better? Maybe, but people are forgetting that his amazing serve is what kept him ahead for the majority of time.
Both are great champions and we're privileged for having the opportunity to watch them, alongside Nadal, going head to head.
Wimbledon crowd reaching new lows every year lately. I understand they favor Federer and in well within their rights of course, but the way they're cheering Novak' mistakes is shocking.
Really intense game of tennis. Both played really hard until the end. Novak should surely become the all time record grand slam winner in next few years.
Federer is just unbelievable. At 37 to play such amazing tennis is incredible. Just shows the sheer determination and level of talent he has.
At this point it will be hard to pick at GOAT. Djokovic will probably claim the most grand slams, but no male tennis player has ever dominated one competition quite like Nadal (at least in recent memory). On the other hand Federer has been very successful over so many competitions and over so many years, playing a style that is beautiful to watch. Roger captures the imagination and hearts of tennis fans, vastly more so than the other two. Which probably makes his most ardent fans a bit more insufferable.
Federer is just unbelievable. At 37 to play such amazing tennis is incredible. Just shows the sheer determination and level of talent he has.
At this point it will be hard to pick at GOAT. Djokovic will probably claim the most grand slams, but no male tennis player has ever dominated one competition quite like Nadal (at least in recent memory). On the other hand Federer has been very successful over so many competitions and over so many years, playing a style that is beautiful to watch. Roger captures the imagination and hearts of tennis fans, vastly more so than the other two. Which probably makes his most ardent fans a bit more insufferable.
The turning point in their rivalry came in USO 2010 SF, when Fed lead by 2 set to 0, then had 2 match points in the 5th and blew it.
Before that match it was 10-5 for him, after that 20-11 for Djokovic. Biggest part of it is of course Fed being on the wane while Djokovic entering his prime, but there’s definitely a mental block there somewhere.
They are incredibly well matched, very rarely do you see a domination from one or blow outs. Go back to that crazy return from Nole on match point down in 2011 at the US open, he just that extra level of focus in key moments while Fed can have mental lapses at the wrong time. The age difference has to be a factor st this stage as well.
I don't care who the GOAT is. Federer is the most joyful to watch which means I always want to see him play, if it was a match with my life on the line I would probably go for Djokovic though.
Halep practically faultless yesterday but the men today made too many errors at crucial times, especially Federer when he was serving to win.
Still, what a Wimbledon!
Phew.
Still, what a Wimbledon!
Phew.
You could have played that match twice over during the men's final set. Easier to maintain a high level over such a short time.
Novak on the second Federer match is as clutch with the passing shot as he was vs Rafa at 7-7 and BP down in the 5th last year. Almost the same passing shot as well!
We say this but it's really impossible to predict - Federer was dominating by 04 but no one would have even been predicting that three or four years beforehand.
I struggle to see Djokovic or Nadal maintaining Federer's current levels at the same age - Federer's remarkable conditioning is probably one of the central reasons he's been able to stay so fit until this age.
And as much as Djokovic is dominating currently, there's no guarantee that'll last - he was dominating around 2015-16 but then fell of suddenly and didn't win another major for two years. Feasible the same could happen again, especially now he's in his 30s where continued success is no guarantee.
GOAT from these three? Not necessarily. Longevity maybe. Or is it a lack of real competition?
Björn Borg won 11 slams before losing interest & retired at TWENTY SIX years old. Dominated on Paris Clay and Wimbledon Turf. Not many can say that.
Björn Borg won 11 slams before losing interest & retired at TWENTY SIX years old. Dominated on Paris Clay and Wimbledon Turf. Not many can say that.
Really wanted Federer to win that. I really thought he would as well when he had them championship points.
Wow. what a night of sport. I don't know why tennis fans get so petty about these amazing rivalries in tennis.
Bad day for Federer fans from New Zealand though.
Bad day for Federer fans from New Zealand though.
Going on his reaction, that one will haunt Federer. I suspect Djokovic really fancies his chances of getting to 21 or so now. Great few years ahead.
Federer was amazing, unbelievable for a 38 year old and yet his mental block displayed yet again will go against him if Novak makes it to 20 or more (or whatever the count Fed stops at) in GOAT debate. As I have always said in these discussions here, Fed is not the undisputed GOAT his fans think he is and did his coronation a bit prematurely. He is still slightly ahead, but whoever of Nadal-Novak crosses his slam count, if they do, will be more suited GOAT candidate, all things considered.
Would LeBron be the GOAT if he surpasses Jordan in rings?
The answer is no. There’s a whole lot more to GOAT status than a simple stat.
Biggest crowd reaction of the tournament
It's crazy how one-sided it was.
Exactly, same reason why Brady isn't the GOAT.
Men's singles and doubles final lasted for just under 10 hours
Womens singles and doubles final lasted just over 2 hours
Mmkay
Womens singles and doubles final lasted just over 2 hours
Mmkay
There are dozens of us, dozens!
There'd be a pretty good case if he got more rings than Jordan (won't happen though).
Borg would be on a lot more slams if he ever bothered to play in the Aussie.
This is an individual game. Here h2h matters. I don't follow NBA much but those two are players from different era in a team game.
Yes I agree there is more to it than slam count, but both Nadal and Novak lead h2h against him, in slams as well as overall and Federer has consistently came 2nd best on mental aspect against these two, for a long time. If he could find answer to Nadal now, he should have done it earlier. Federer fans have been giving age as a reason since he wasn't even 30. Yet here is, playing top quality at 38 and matching fitness levels. So then if he still chokes up on occasions when he is by far better and loses other time anyways, he is not undisputed GOAT.
Biggest crowd reaction of the tournament
It's crazy how one-sided it was.
Aww look at them, cute. One what
Which one are you bothered about more? The fact that Federer lost or that Đoković has won?
Updated stat : H2H vs the other two members of the Big 3 in Slams :
Rafa : 19-10
Novak : 16-15
Federer : 10-20
Rafa : 19-10
Novak : 16-15
Federer : 10-20
I think he's the one of the 3 who is most likely to lose motivation. I do see him definitely getting to 20 though but I see Federer winning one more somewhere.
If they all end up with similar GS counts (+/- 2) ,t the GOAT will come down to personal preference.
I do feel for djoko's lack of support.i think a big reason is that he rose to the top the last - by the time most tennis fans were split into Rafa/Fed camps.
I do feel for djoko's lack of support.i think a big reason is that he rose to the top the last - by the time most tennis fans were split into Rafa/Fed camps.
I understand the lesser fans but the hate he gets/extreme love Fed gets over him is a bit bizarre. The cheering of double faults, the comparatively muted applause for his winners. Maybe that's why he didn't even do his traditional celebration of "heart/boob throwing".
Djokovic is the best athlete of the 3. If he's motivated and injuries don't get him, I think he can last just as long. Takes a lot of luck with injuries though
I've thought for a bit now that Federer will be stuck where he is. Albeit him having 2 Championship Points against Djokovic after 917 hours of play would suggest I might be wrong.
I think you're right in that most will choose their favourite and just pick the reasons that suit their case. Personally, I think the person with the greatest number of slams is the GOAT. It's not a flawless metric by any means, but I reckon it's as close as you can get and accounts for talent, longevity and the abilities of other players.
Djokovic's popularity thing is an odd one. Federer and Nadal have been, for a long time, the general public's favourites. I sometimes think he feels entitled to that warmth by virtue of being the best player in the world. Personally, I think he's great, particularly when he's getting arsey with the entire world. However, I also think there might be something in the idea that, if he didn't so obviously want the adulation, he might get it more readily.
This was Fed's highest level since AO/IW 2017 and maybe since Wimbledon 2012. I just don't see how he can pull himself back in form after this. His last 2 late season runs have been catastrophically bad.
How can Federer be considered the GOAT when he's 16-24 (GS: 4-10) vs Nadal and 22-26 (GS: 6-10) vs Djokovic H2H?
Yeah but you could argue the early meetings were Federer in his prime and Novak nowhere near ready to beat him.
Their last two meetings have been classics and Federer will be disappointed he’s lost them both.
Everyone moans about french open crowd.
But the Wimbledon crowd are the worst pretentious bunch of wankers. It’s a tennis game and stop being disrespectful to another legend. They’d appreciate Djokovic once he’s retired just like Nadal. All three are greats and me personally would sit there enjoying it rather than hoping one makes error or double fault.
But the Wimbledon crowd are the worst pretentious bunch of wankers. It’s a tennis game and stop being disrespectful to another legend. They’d appreciate Djokovic once he’s retired just like Nadal. All three are greats and me personally would sit there enjoying it rather than hoping one makes error or double fault.