Tennis 2019

[2mufc0]

Fed is incredible, shame he won't be able to beat Novak in the final

 

[Eckers99]

Is Federer the greatest sportsman of all time in any sport?

Quite possibly. To do what he's done for so long, against the quality of player he's faced? He's incredible.

 

[berbatrick]

Have any of the 3 beaten the other two to win the a GS? For instance, if Fed wins it, he would have beaten Nadal and Djoko in the same tournament. Has that been done among the trio?

I'm pretty sure Novak has done it at some point? 2011 US Open - Fed lost multiple match points in the semi, and then Nadal in the final. Could also have done it at the AO, where Federer has been beaten by both a lot of times.
The closest Fed has come is doing Djoko+Murray - US Open 2010 and Wimbledon 2012. He *really* should have done better in the 2011 French - he beat Djokovic's 43-win streak in the semi, and squandered literally dozens of BPs in the final.

 

[wr8_utd]

Tennis isn't purely results based. Djoko (unfortunately for him) simply isn't loved to the extent the other two are.

Being loved won't change the fact that he'd be the greatest tennis player ever if he surpasses Federer.

 

[wr8_utd]

I'm pretty sure Novak has done it at some point? 2011 US Open - Fed lost multiple match points in the semi, and then Nadal in the final. Could also have done it at the AO, where Federer has been beaten by both a lot of times.
The closest Fed has come is doing Djoko+Murray - US Open 2010 and Wimbledon 2012. He *really* should have done better in the 2011 French - he beat Djokovic's 43-win streak in the semi, and squandered literally dozens of BPs in the final.

From what I remember reading a while ago, it's something like :

Nadal 2 or 3 times
Novak 1 or 2 times
Federer never

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I think Djokovic would have a serious claim to be the GOAT if he ends up with more grand slams. I'd always say Federer is but I can see why some would argue Djokovic if that happens.

I don't think Nadal does, as great as he is, because so many of his are on the one surface.

 

[Rajma]

Can't wait for Sunday, Novak the villain against an ultimate crowd favourite! Cmon Djoker! If anyone can spoil the party and don't get affected too much by the audience it's him.

 

[wr8_utd]

Can't wait for Sunday, Novak the villain against an ultimate crowd favourite! Cmon Djoker! If anyone can spoil the party and don't get affected too much by the audience it's him.

Djokovic definitely does get affected by the crowd but I hope it fires him up. I hope he repeats his usual performances here vs Federer and wraps it up in straight sets but if Federer plays as well as he did today he's got a great chance.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Jimmy Connors 1982 US Open 30y 0m 10d
Petr Korda 1998 Australian 30y 0m 9d
Andres Gomez 1990 Roland Garros 30y 3m 14d
Rod Laver 1969 Australian 30y 5m 18d
John Newcombe 1975 Australian 30y 7m 9d
Andre Agassi 2001 Australian 30y 8m 30d
Rod Laver 1969 Roland Garros 30y 9m 30d
Rod Laver 1969 Wimbledon 30y 10m 26d
Roger Federer 2012 Wimbledon 30y 11m 0d
Rafael Nadal 2017 Roland Garros 31y 0m 8d
Jimmy Connors 1983 US Open 31y 0m 9d
Pete Sampras 2002 US Open 31y 0m 27d
Rod Laver 1969 US Open 31y 1m 0d
Novak Đoković 2018 Wimbledon 31y 1m 24d
Rafael Nadal 2017 US Open 31y 3m 7d
Rafael Nadal 2018 US Open 31y 3m 18d
Novak Đoković 2019 Australian 31y 7m 5d
Arthur Ashe 1975 Wimbledon 31y 11m 25d
Rafael Nadal 2018 Roland Garros 32y 0m 7d
Andre Agassi 2003 Australian 32y 8m 28d
Rafael Nadal 2019 Roland Garros 33y 0m 6d
Ken Rosewall 1968 Roland Garros 33y 7m 7d
Andres Gimeno 1972 Roland Garros 34y 10m 1d
Roger Federer 2017 Australian 35y 5m 21d
Ken Rosewall 1970 US Open 35y 10m 11d
Roger Federer 2017 Wimbledon 35y 11m 23d
Ken Rosewall 1971 Australian 36y 2m 12d
Roger Federer 2018 Australian 36y 5m 20d
Ken Rosewall 1972 Australian 37y 2m 1d

Think this is up to date now. Either Novak gets between 2018 Nadal and Agassi, or Federer becomes easily the oldest ever winner of a grand slam tournament in the open era.​

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I think Djokovic would have a serious claim to be the GOAT if he ends up with more grand slams. I'd always say Federer is but I can see why some would argue Djokovic if that happens.

I don't think Nadal does, as great as he is, because so many of his are on the one surface.

The GOAT thing will still rage on for many, many years even when all of them hung up their racquets, if the GS count end up being similar.

What today proves is that H2H is a really poor metric to separate these greats. We had 2 Fedal matches within 6 weeks and lo and behold, each won on their stronger surface.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

The GOAT thing will still rage on for many, many years even when all of them hung up their racquets, if the GS count end up being similar.

What today proves is that H2H is a really poor metric to separate these greats. We had 2 Fedal matches within 6 weeks and lo and behold, each won on their stronger surface.

Aye I agree.

We'll get all sorts of arguments used by people to claim their favourite is best.

 

[Brophs]

This is a pretty huge match with regard to the GS record. Given that you’d think Nadal has a couple more French titles in him and Djokovic is absolutely flying on all surfaces, Federer’s 20 likely won’t be enough to hold the record outright (albeit I’m starting to think even 22 might not, though that’s another argument).

Obviously I spend a pointless amount of time thinking about this.

 

[Carolina Red]

@Mrs Smoker - if the pattern holds, it looks like it’s Federer to win.

 

[wr8_utd]

This is a pretty huge match with regard to the GS record. Given that you’d think Nadal has a couple more French titles in him and Djokovic is absolutely flying on all surfaces, Federer’s 20 likely won’t be enough to hold the record outright (albeit I’m starting to think even 22 might not, though that’s another argument).

Obviously I spend a pointless amount of time thinking about this.

If Federer gets to 22, no one is catching him.

 

[Vialli_92]

I think Djokovic would have a serious claim to be the GOAT if he ends up with more grand slams. I'd always say Federer is but I can see why some would argue Djokovic if that happens.

I don't think Nadal does, as great as he is, because so many of his are on the one surface.

In terms of results probably Djokovic but Fed has such an amazing and eye catching play style that will always trump the other 2 who are more about grinding and fighting out matches like dog fights

If Novak catches Fed I would probably concede he was the better player with the better record and head to head but not the better tennis player if that makes sense since Fed has the all round game I don't think the others have

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

In terms of results probably Djokovic but Fed has such an amazing and eye catching play style that will always trump the other 2 who are more about grinding and fighting out matches like dog fights

If Novak catches Fed I would probably concede he was the better player with the better record and head to head but not the better tennis player if that makes sense since Fed has the all round game I don't think the others have

Federer is my favourite so yeah I totally get what you mean.

 

[Peyroteo]

Tennis isn't purely results based. Djoko (unfortunately for him) simply isn't loved to the extent the other two are.

So? He has to win more than them, not get more crowd support

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I wonder why Djokovic isn't as loved as the other two.

Federer is nicer to watch but Nadal can be just as dour and an endurance test as Djokovic and yet people love Nadal.

 

[JinnerJamie]

I wonder why Djokovic isn't as loved as the other two.

Federer is nicer to watch but Nadal can be just as dour and an endurance test as Djokovic and yet people love Nadal.

People fell for Rafa after the 2008 final, he wouldn't get half the love had he lost that match.

 

[AshRK]

I wonder why Djokovic isn't as loved as the other two.

Federer is nicer to watch but Nadal can be just as dour and and endurance test as Djokovic and yet people love Nadal.

I think because both Nadal and Federer started much earlier and already gave many classics before Djock starte dto dominated. Even now people talk about the classic matches between Federer and Nadal but don't remember much about djock, when in reality AO final between Djock and Nadal (forgot which year) when Djock beat a peak nadal. That was one of the best matches I have ever seen.

You are right Djock should be equally respected. Won't be surprised if he surpasses both Nadal and Federer in GS count. Top athlete.

 

[berbatrick]

From what I remember reading a while ago, it's something like :

Nadal 2 or 3 times
Novak 1 or 2 times
Federer never

I highly doubt the Nadal number, at least not since djoko became a contender.

He has only won 1 AO and the semi wasn't Novak, so probably not there.

He never met fed at French since 2011, so not there.

He only ever beat fed at Wimbledon in 08, so no.

He never met fed at the us open.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I think because both Nadal and Federer started much earlier and already gave many classics before Djock starte dto dominated. Even now people talk about the classic matches between Federer and Nadal but don't remember much about djock, when in reality AO final between Djock and Nadal (forgot which year) when Djock beat a peak nadal was one of the best matches I have ever seen.

You are right Djock should be equally respected. Won't be surprised if he surpasses both Nadal and Federer in GS count. Top athlete.

When they both couldn't walk after the match?

Oof I remember that one.

 

[AshRK]

When they both couldn't walk after the match?

Oof I remember that one.

Yes. That one. It was pure madness. That and the final between Roddick and Federer in 2009. Both these matches were something else.

 

[FootballHQ]

Strictly confined to sporting achievement, yes. This is like a heavyweight boxer winning fights at 50.

Pretty crazy to think there were mutterings about him retiring as early as 2012 and here we are.

2013 was his annus horribilis, lost in 2nd round at Wimbledon to Strathosky and then lost in 3rd round to Tommy Robredo at US open. Honestly thought he was done then.

He then picked up bad injury after losing to Raonic at Wimbledon in 2016 but came back refreshed and won two slams the next year.

Most incredible thing for me was his court coverage and the amount of long rallies he actually won, think playing clay this year was smart move to improve his overall game.

Nadal below par and his serve kept him in at key points, always feels like there's always a better player than him at Wimbledon so don't see him winning this tournament again.

 

[wr8_utd]

I highly doubt the Nadal number, at least not since djoko became a contender.

He has only won 1 AO and the semi wasn't Novak, so probably not there.

He never met fed at French since 2011, so not there.

He only ever beat fed at Wimbledon in 08, so no.

He never met fed at the us open.

It's probably happened twice at RG then. I'll look it up later when I've got the time.
I think Novak has done it 1-2 times as well but can't really remember when.

 

[wr8_utd]

2013 was his annus horribilis, lost in 2nd round at Wimbledon to Strathosky and then lost in 3rd round to Tommy Robredo at US open. Honestly thought he was done then.

He then picked up bad injury after losing to Raonic at Wimbledon in 2016 but came back refreshed and won two slams the next year.

Most incredible thing for me was his court coverage and the amount of long rallies he actually won, think playing clay this year was smart move to improve his overall game.

Nadal below par and his serve kept him in at key points, always feels like there's always a better player than him at Wimbledon so don't see him winning this tournament again.

Think the problem for Nadal both here and elsewhere is that, while he's more than good enough to beat the rest of the field, he just doesn't have the game, the mental strength on big points and the tactics anymore to beat Federer and Novak outside of clay.

 

[FootballHQ]

I've seen Fed live at 02 arena in that World tour finals thing a few years back. Was a mundane match against Jack Sock of all players but he's just one of those sportsmen you simply have to see live at some point, way he glided across court and effortlessly patted back the ball was something else.

Also been lucky to see Messi and Ronaldo live (Man. United), very special live moments as we'll still be talking about them in 50 years time.

 

[FootballHQ]

Think the problem for Nadal both here and elsewhere is that, while he's more than good enough to beat the rest of the field, he just doesn't have the game, the mental strength on big points and the tactics anymore to beat Federer and Novak outside of clay.

Yes probably true judging from last few years, Nole wiped the floor with him in the AO final.

Nadal is as it stands still only two behind the slam record though and can easily win another two french open titles. Then he can pinch another US open if a draw opens up like it did in 2017.

To be totally safe on slam count think Federer needs two more as you always have Djokovic potentially just four behind if he wins on Sunday.

Maybe best finish is for them all to end up on 20 slams and then just announce their retirement on the same day so we can then have endless arguments over who is who is GOAT.

 

[wr8_utd]

I've seen Fed live at 02 arena in that World tour finals thing a few years back. Was a mundane match against Jack Sock of all players but he's just one of those sportsmen you simply have to see live at some point, way he glided across court and effortlessly patted back the ball was something else.

Also been lucky to see Messi and Ronaldo live (Man. United), very special live moments as we'll still be talking about them in 50 years time.

I've watched Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and Federer but nothing quite matched the feeling when I watched Messi. He's just a different level genius to anyone.

Yes probably true judging from last few years, Nole wiped the floor with him in the AO final.

Nadal is as it stands still only two behind the slam record though and can easily win another two french open titles. Then he can pinch another US open if a draw opens up like it did in 2017.

To be totally safe on slam count think Federer needs two more as you always have Djokovic potentially just four behind if he wins on Sunday.

Maybe best finish is for them all to end up on 20 slams and then just announce their retirement on the same day so we can then have endless arguments over who is who is GOAT.

Federer is still playing unbelievable tennis and even if he doesn't win Sunday, he just needs one Slam where someone beats Djokovic and he can. I see him winning 1-2 more, Rafa ending on 20 and Novak around 20 too if he keeps up his motivation.

 

[NM]

So? He has to win more than them, not get more crowd support

No. Individual sport is about more than just winning. It's the how you win. The greats are remembered for that. Djokovic is probably better but not greater. There is a difference

 

[wr8_utd]

No. Individual sport is about more than just winning. It's the how you win. The greats are remembered for that. Djokovic is probably better but not greater. There is a difference

It doesn't matter how many cheerleaders Federer has in the stands or how beautiful his tennis was. Whoever of the 3 ends up with the greatest accomplishments at the end of their careers will be GOAT irrespective of their popularity or lack of it. As things stand it'll be Federer but there's a good chance Novak can catch up.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

No. Individual sport is about more than just winning. It's the how you win. The greats are remembered for that. Djokovic is probably better but not greater. There is a difference

You are talking to CR’s personal hype man.

Across any sport, the ability to inspire and excite always elevate some above the others. Greatness doesn’t exist only in trophies and medal cabinets.

 

[Peyroteo]

You are talking to CR’s personal hype man.

Across any sport, the ability to inspire and excite always elevate some above the others. Greatness doesn’t exist only in trophies and medal cabinets.

And how do you judge the ability to inspire and excite? Djokovic's game is much more inspirational, exciting and graceful than Federer's in my view. As is Nadal's.

It's an entirely subjective opinion. You talk about it as if it's a fact that Federer's game is more beautiful than anyone else's.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

And how do you judge the ability to inspire and excite? Djokovic's game is much more inspirational, exciting and graceful than Federer's in my view. As is Nadal's.

It's an entirely subjective opinion. You talk about it as if it's a fact.

Opinion is subjective.

But saying you think Nadal and Djokovic are more graceful than Federer just isn't true.

There's nothing wrong with how Nadal and Djokovic play, they're both incredible, but come on. No chance can they be described as more graceful than Federer.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

And how do you judge the ability to inspire and excite? Djokovic's game is much more inspirational, exciting and graceful than Federer's in my view. As is Nadal's.

It's an entirely subjective opinion. You talk about it as if it's a fact that Federer's game is more beautiful than anyone else's.

Isn’t your whole point about popularity being meaningless?

When the majority of people prefer one to another, not hard to work out who inspire/excite people more, or you think it’s the mismatched arms that draw people to him?

 

[wr8_utd]

Ofcourse Nadal and Djokovic can't ever be termed as graceful as Federer. Maybe if they were blessed with a serve as good as his that helps you dictate points a lot more, they'd maybe be more attacking players than the defensive grinder impression they give off.

Either way though, in tennis, I don't think anything will be looked at in the GOAT debate other than whoever ends up with the best results and achievements.

 

[Peyroteo]

Isn’t your whole point about popularity being meaningless?

When the majority of people prefer one to another, not hard to work out who inspire/excite people more, or you think it’s the mismatched arms that draw people to him?

You're seriously implying popularity is the result of how beautifully an athlete plays his sport without any other thing influencing it?

Not being from eastern europe, not being as outspoken or angry on the court, having been the first superstar that came to tennis after Sampras when tennis was needing it, not taking the 'injury timeouts' Djokovic used to take fairly regularly when losing... plenty of things resulted in Federer being more popular.

Of course popularity should be meaningless when you consider how great an athlete is. They're athletes, not politicians meant to be handled by PR machines in order to sell their image as much as possible.

 

[FootballHQ]

And how do you judge the ability to inspire and excite? Djokovic's game is much more inspirational, exciting and graceful than Federer's in my view. As is Nadal's.

It's an entirely subjective opinion. You talk about it as if it's a fact that Federer's game is more beautiful than anyone else's.

Really? Fed's game with it's angles and BH firing and way he just glides round the court like spells today is like an artist.

Nole and Nadal more players who will grind you in submission with their astonishing defence and of course match ups between themselves have produced legendary matches and they're all time greats in their own right.

If I had one day left on this earth then I'd probably pick watching Federer play as my final sporting event to view.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

You're seriously implying popularity is the result of how beautifully an athlete plays his sport without any other thing influencing it?

Not being from eastern europe, not being as outspoken or angry on the court, having been the first superstar that came to tennis after Sampras when tennis was needing it, not taking the 'injury timeouts' Djokovic used to take fairly regularly when losing... plenty of things resulted in Federer being more popular.

Of course popularity should be meaningless when you consider how great an athlete is. They're athletes, not politicians meant to be handled by PR machines in order to sell their image as much as possible.

Your whole argument on other factors influencing popularity besides sporting prowess in Federer vs Djokovic falls apart when you consider how many Djokovic/Nadal/Murray fans are more anti-Federer than pro their own.

Of course it’s not limited to that, but how they play the sport plays a big part in how sport men are perceived, otherwise 2/3 of the football world wouldn’t hold a beardy, chunky midget above an international sex symbol. Sports are games, games are meant to be enjoyed, to be fun. There’s escapism in watching things we know only few are blessed with, to be graceful/agile/skillful beyond what’s normally the case for their peers.

 

[NM]

You are talking to CR’s personal hype man.

Across any sport, the ability to inspire and excite always elevate some above the others. Greatness doesn’t exist only in trophies and medal cabinets.

Well I do think CR7 Is greater than Messi while Messi is a better footballer so I'm consistent!