As for all these Fed, Nadal and Djoko comparisons, for me, Djoko's peak is greater than both Nadal and Fed. Neither has held all 4 Slams at the same time either.
Tennis 2017
- Thread starter The Man Himself
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I honestly wouldn't know who to pick between peak Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic. They were each at an unreal level that dwarfs anything before them.
Yeah continue giving the "slight edge" to the player who's currently out for the season vs the current no 1 player who just won 2 slams this year.
After all, Players age and become prone to the big upsets, injuries and losing their edge in their preferred surface. It's no shame.
Conversely, no one could've predicted 1 or 2 years ago when Djokovic and Murray were leaders of the pack that we would be here today. Who is to say Djokovic won't come back and take over again. He's younger than the rest of them and still has more peak career years to access.
I love Nadal but I'd pick Djoko and then Nadal and Federer at similar levels. Novak at his peak was just scarily good even against quality opposition. The way he had that run going against Nadal was unbelievable. Nadal is a fantastic Slam final player but even he could do nothing against Novak.
Would love it if Nadal overtook Federer (winning 2-3 more non clay Slams) along the way just to see the lengths to which Fed fans would try defend his GOAT status.
Also, clay court specialist Rafa Nadal has as many non clay Slams as Becker and Edberg got on all surfaces and just one behind McEnroe. Ofcourse if you feel like it then you can go and add his RG titles
If he surpasses Federer's GS count, it wouldn't even be a debate. He'd become undisputed GOAT. Problem right now he is still 3 behind.
@Bojan11 Djokovic beat Nadal on clay twice in 2011 too (he won 8 in a row that year vs him) Nadal was very much at peak of his powers then. Nadal is undoubtedly GOAT on clay but Djokovic is the only person who I've seen push Nadal to the max and even beat him on that surface.
Great question and I probably agree with you, Djokovic was a total monster from 2011-2015. His 2011 in particular, he had beaten peak Nadal in 2 masters final prior to RG that year and it took a ridiculous performance from Federer in Semis to stop him. I think he could've beaten Nadal in the final that year.
Think lots of people are underestimating Djoko and his return next season. Nadal and Federer came back from breaks to do really well this year and Djoko could very well do the same. I think the ambition and desire he kind of lost after winning RG might just come back now that he's had to watch Fed and Nadal sweep it all. Also, there's a distinct lack of any quality in the mens field outside of Fedal so it's a great time to return for him. I'd have him among the Top favorites for AO.
It would be brilliant if Djokovic could make a comeback to his 2011 levels and win a couple of more Slams. Don't think it will happen though. It's a competitive field out there and I don't think he has it in him any more to beat a Stan Wawrinka or del Potro in a Slam semis or finals.
Absolutely. Even the times Nadal has beaten Djoko at AO, it's been really tough. Djoko is an incredible player on clay who put up around 10x the fight against Rafa than what Fed ever managed.
There's only a one year gap between Rafa and Novak. Djokovic also needs to find himself the right coach. I don't think Agassi is a long term solution considering he doesn't want to travel that much. I'm not sure Andre would even be willing to do just 8 weeks in slams.
To be fair there were doubts about Djokovic this time last year after he lost to Stan. Lots of people were predicting Murray to dominate...
It's not really. RG, Wimbledon and USO are ample proof of that.
3 of the GS finals were all on Novak's better surface and considering his form then, I can understand why he was on a roll. Nadal only managed to stop him at FO though. The only weakness in Novak is his temperament though.
Swings and roundabouts. Nadal also beat Novak 3 times in a row in 2012 - arguably his worst year in recent years until this one when he won the AO then pretty much flopped at finals for the rest of the season. No Masters 1000 title and 4th at the Olympic losing to DelPo.
Their matches on clay are usually tight affairs and it comes down to who is better on the big points. I think it's more likely for Novak to come back refreshed and steamroll the tour than for the oldies to continue playing well consistently next season. Point is, we just don't know.
I think Novak's temperament has been just fine since 09-10 ish time. His mental strenght is unreal and the way he comes back when all looks lost is brilliant. His desire and motivation levels seem low though. Rafa and Fed wouldn't have been satisfied with just holding all 4 Slams, they'd have pushed on. Novak came out and started saying stuff like family and being happy matters more to him than tennis. It's not a bad view to hold ofcourse but it's not something you want to hear out loud from someone who's supposed to the best around.
I want to make an outlandish prediction which will probably not become true
but I see Djokovic renaissance next year where he goes on a tear like Federer Nadal did this year and mop up like 3/4 GS to force himself into GOAT debate. He's still a far better athlete than Nadal and Federer at their age, his issues are mental. If he gets over it, he'll steamroll the field again.I'm talking about 2015 though. Where Nadal was at his worst. Lost to Fognini on clay twice. Lost to Murray on clay for the first time. Djokovic beat him, but he wasn't really playing a very good Rafa or even average Rafa.
Djokovic won't reach those 2011 levels again. He had probably the greatest season ever and since then he's had very good seasons, but nothing comes close to that season for me.
I see him winning 2 Slams if he can find the motivation to win again.I want to make an outlandish prediction which will probably not become true
Just because Rafa and Federer made great comebacks doesn't mean that Djokovic will do it too, he hasn't played his best tennis for more than a year now and it appears that his problems aren't just physical issues which will go away with rest
Federer at 36 won Wimbledon without dropping a set. Seriously can’t see anyone challenging him there next year especially as it’s his best surface. Wait did I say next year? Make that the next 5 years.
The passive aggressive tone is cute, did you predict 12 months ago this season would turn out the way it did?
You are acting like I'm purposefully hyping up Novak to undermine Nadal. I was shit scarred of Fed meeting him when they were drawn into the same Semi route at Wimby, there are posts in this thread testifying to that. Yes, he's just as likely to continue his slump as getting back into form, and the Mens' tour will be much the poorer for it, but it's also likely that if he sorts himself out he'll beat everyone since you know, he's actually proven to be capable of since entering his peak.
Trust me Novak in 2012 wasn't as bad as Rafa was in 2015.
Djokovic atleast reached 3 grand slam finals and semi final.
He won Miami, Shanghai, Toronto 1000 masters and the ATP tour finals. Plus a grandslam. Any other player having that season it would be a huge success. He just set the bar high after 2011.
Nadal in 2015 best results were two quarters and early exits in two slams. His only success came in two 250 events in Argentina and Stuttgard.
I know but you also said Djokovic is lucky he didn't play Nadal this year? Isn't 2017 also Djokovic's worst year too, would you not give him same leeway as you are doing for Nadal?
I doubt he can reach the 2011 level again but what about the level between 2012 to halfway of 2016? As great as Fedal have been this year, do you see them faring well vs Djokovic? It wasn't an outlandish claim made by the poster, in a hypothetical scenario if this Nadal goes against Djokovic who's playing at the level of last five years it'd be a close match and not as cut and dry as many seem to believe. Djokovic has always troubled Nadal on clay and H2H is skewed in his favor as Nadal has gotten older. Take all of that into account and the claim doesn't appear to be absurd at all.
I never claimed it was, it's quite obvious.
The thing is he's had a positive H2H against all of the top 4 across all surfaces since 2011 or so. Fit and in form he is the best player on the tour so claims of 'Nadal will win the next 2 FOs since no one is capable of beating him there/he's light years ahead' are just factually incorrect since, you know, we have a guy who is empirically capable of doing just that.
I'm saying if he played Nadal this season the h2h would be in significant favour of Nadal. Nadal during the 15-16 years wasn't right and he was losing to so many average players even on clay. Just like Djokovic was doing this year. It's just lucky for Novak he didn't meet Rafa in many tournaments at his worst as the head to head could have bounced back in favour of Rafa.
So there's little point saying oh Djokovic beat Rafa during 15-16 because Rafa isn't the player he was last year or the year before. He serves better. The power is back in the forehand and he when he wants to play very aggressive.
Last year or the year before his serve was awful. He got broken nearly half the games. His forehand just did nothing.
Well you did say Rafa beating Novak in 2012 was when Novak at his worst besides this season. A lot of players would love to have a tennis season like that.
Like someone pointed Djokovic has only won one French open. Unless Rafa gets injured or has a season like he did in 15/16 it's going to be hard to stop him in the French. Nadal has a air of invincibility on that court. The best Djokovic has done against a fully fit not that imposter version in 2015 was take him to four sets. So it's going to be hard for Djokovic even if he regains his best to stop Nadal if Nadal is fit.
It was actually 5 sets losing 7-9 in the 5th in 2013.
I don't think anyone on the Mens's tour this year has played anywhere near good enough to beat the 2016 version of Djokovic that held all 4 Slams, let alone the 2011 version, and that includes Federer. The big question is of course if Novak gets back to that level but as has already been pointed out, Nadal is prone to an injury or two himself so we might not even have the chance to find out.
The broader point is, at this stage in their careers, none of the top 4 is guaranteed to perform so saying anyone of them is guaranteed a Slam if fit is misguided, to say the least.
I really don't know about that. Nadal is an amazing athlete.I want to make an outlandish prediction which will probably not become true
Or Federer will keep the gap at 3 or more as he's done whilst aged 35/36 and then we'll see the lengths Nadal fans like yourself will go to to prove his status as has always been the case.Would love it if Nadal overtook Federer (winning 2-3 more non clay Slams) along the way just to see the lengths to which Fed fans would try defend his GOAT status.
Also, clay court specialist Rafa Nadal has as many non clay Slams as Becker and Edberg got on all surfaces and just one behind McEnroe. Ofcourse if you feel like it then you can go and add his RG titles
Brilliant stuff from both men to win 2 GS each this year. But if the rest of the field rises next year I think each of them would be take even 1 as an big achievement. This year, big players being out, and young players still developing played a part.
Djokovic did hold the 4 slams at the same time but you have to realize it was at a time when both Nadal and Federer were struggling massively. Even if one of them was at his peak, I doubt Djokovic could have achieved that.
Unfortunately for both Nadal and Federer, their absolute peak coincided perfectly which was great for us tennis fans though.
So many salty Federer fans on this thread. I've lost count of the number of posters having not so subtle digs at Nadal throughout the thread. Quite amusing.
Oh yes. Federer fans with their not so subtle digs at everything Nadal does. He can win 10 Slams in a row and they'd still find something to criticise him about. Federer speaks 4 languages, mate!
Yeah I'm sure Nadal fans don't take digs at all. Nope. Federers opponents definitely don't bottle things when he wins or the field definitely isn't weak. It's the world against only Nadal, the poor soul.
Grow up FFS. It's the greatest sporting rivalry of our times (a real rivalry unlike that Messi Ronaldo farce). Of course both sides will pick holes in the other.
Grow up FFS. It's the greatest sporting rivalry of our times (a real rivalry unlike that Messi Ronaldo farce). Of course both sides will pick holes in the other.
Where are the Federer fans ? I don't know of any in this thread. All I see is obviously sensitive Nadal fans who are offended that anyone might think Nadal isn't the GOAT.
It's ok. You're right. There are no Federer fans on this thread at all. Not even on this page or any of the previous 164 pages. Whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose...
Its not fecking rocket science. If you are going to make a claim then be prepared to back it up. If you can't then don't post here.
Never understood how people can get so emotionally attached to individual players - it's a bit strange to see such tribal loyalty in an individual sport. What will you guys do once Nadal/Federer retires?
Not at all. Why is individual support (Nadal/Federer) weird and team support normal? Personally I enjoyed tennis before and I will after Federer has come and gone. And I have an interest in other sports too. I don't see the big deal.
To be fair both sets of fans have been pretty unbearable. We should just appreciate both of them. Everyone is going to have their personal favourite.
You actually believe there's no Federer fans on this thread! That is just plain delusion. I suggest you calm down and stop being so emotional.
It's not weird to support an individual, the question is whether the same level of tribalism should be considered normal. The difference being that a team will last your lifetime whereas a player's career won't. I understand it when it's Spaniards supporting Nadal because what they're really supporting is their country, which again is a lifetime deal.
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