Music Taylor Swift

Sky1981 said:
Out of interest those who slags her. Name musician you think is much better than her
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In purely musical terms, there are hundreds. She's a truly modern phenomenon. She's just really safe and marketable. She's a good singer but not amazing. Lots of her peers have better voices. She's a competent if not a bit formulaic, songwriter. She's pretty but not annoyingly or intimidatingly so. Her family were in PR or something and Taylor herself is savvy as hell. She's really driven, and focussed and has been from a young age. She's a money making dream come true. All the parts are there.

Recognising these things doesn't make you a snob.

I work in the music industry and have done for nearly 30 years. I ran a record label for half that time, and success and talent are linked but not the same.

Sone of the most talented people don't make it, for a variety of reasons.
 
moses said:
In purely musical terms, there are hundreds. She's a truly modern phenomenon. She's just really safe and marketable. She's a good singer but not amazing. Lots of her peers have better voices. She's a competent if not a bit formulaic, songwriter. She's pretty but not annoyingly or intimidatingly so. Her family were in PR or something and Taylor herself is savvy as hell. She's really driven, and focussed and has been from a young age. She's a money making dream come true. All the parts are there.

Recognising these things doesn't make you a snob.

I work in the music industry and have done for nearly 30 years. I ran a record label for half that time, and success and talent are linked but not the same.

Sone of the most talented people don't make it, for a variety of reasons.
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Yeah, I don't think anyone is claiming Swift is the GOAT, but if you compare her to the people she is regularly competing against at the Grammys, she comes out just fine. I think people forget Swift is a pop singer, and one who crossed over from country-pop to begin with. A more important thing that keeps getting overlooked is Swift writes music for girls/women, and that perspective is not going to be readily embraced by people who are neither young nor women.
 
moses said:
In purely musical terms, there are hundreds. She's a truly modern phenomenon. She's just really safe and marketable. She's a good singer but not amazing. Lots of her peers have better voices. She's a competent if not a bit formulaic, songwriter. She's pretty but not annoyingly or intimidatingly so. Her family were in PR or something and Taylor herself is savvy as hell. She's really driven, and focussed and has been from a young age. She's a money making dream come true. All the parts are there.

Recognising these things doesn't make you a snob.

I work in the music industry and have done for nearly 30 years. I ran a record label for half that time, and success and talent are linked but not the same.

Sone of the most talented people don't make it, for a variety of reasons.
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Great post. Spot on.
 
Don’t really care if her albums are any good, or who enjoys them or doesn’t.

But allowing a system to exist that sees your rabid fans pay hundreds if not thousands of pounds for tickets… and still trying to pretend you’re a nice person… Nope.

It’s vile to allow that vampiric system to exist and she should be pulled apart for it. Her and a few other tentpole artists are dragging live performance prices to disgusting places and they’re never going back.

She’s an apex disaster stage capitalist and expects praise for ‘taking a stand’ on a few social issues. Fcuk all the way off with that shit. Sprinkling a few acts of kindness around that don’t make a dent in your daily earnings, let alone actual wealth, doesn’t change any of it.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Don’t really care if her albums are any good, or who enjoys them or doesn’t.

But allowing a system to exist that sees your rabid fans pay hundreds if not thousands of pounds for tickets… and still trying to pretend you’re a nice person… Nope.

It’s vile to allow that vampiric system to exist and she should be pulled apart for it. Her and a few other tentpole artists are dragging live performance prices to disgusting places and they’re never going back.

She’s an apex disaster stage capitalist and expects praise for ‘taking a stand’ on a few social issues. Fcuk all the way off with that shit. Sprinkling a few acts of kindness around that don’t make a dent in your daily earnings, let alone actual wealth, doesn’t change any of it.
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Do they get a cut of all that ticket money? She can refuse to perform or like you say do something about it.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Do they get a cut of all that ticket money? She can refuse to perform or like you say do something about it.
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Yeah, of course they do. They get a cut of dynamic pricing, and reseller sites. It’s why they don’t do anything about it.

I’m sure there are still old school tout prices that exist outside of the marketplace. But they used to be few and far between. Artists and Record labels have effectively teamed up with venues and festival organisers to legalise ticket scalping now.

It’s gross.

As an absolute bare minimum she do have a 25% of capacity lottery system for low income fans. Or just a straight lottery. Whatever. Or have tiered pricing that helps fans. Having the best seats in the arenas filled with the wealthiest people is ruining everything.

It’s so easy. Hamilton was the toughest ticket in town at one point. They still had a lottery system that allowed access for people at a sensible price point.

The girl is untouchable now. She’s apparently a billionaire. For buttons she could have a dedicated ‘Taylor Tickets’ app or website. Take all the control from the vampires. Just… make the same money differently if she’s desperate to keep making it. No excuse for not doing it. People would celebrate her no matter what.
 
I tried listening to another one of this album - Black Dog. Not good. Felt like she was trying to do a Billy Eilish but doesn’t have the voice for it. Pitchfork gave it a 6.6 which doesn’t surprise me - not that they are the sole authority on music of course.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Yeah, of course they do. They get a cut of dynamic pricing, and reseller sites. It’s why they don’t do anything about it.

I’m sure there are still old school tout prices that exist outside of the marketplace. But they used to be few and far between. Artists and Record labels have effectively teamed up with venues and festival organisers to legalise ticket scalping now.

It’s gross.

As an absolute bare minimum she do have a 25% of capacity lottery system for low income fans. Or just a straight lottery. Whatever. Or have tiered pricing that helps fans. Having the best seats in the arenas filled with the wealthiest people is ruining everything.

It’s so easy. Hamilton was the toughest ticket in town at one point. They still had a lottery system that allowed access for people at a sensible price point.

The girl is untouchable now. She’s apparently a billionaire. For buttons she could have a dedicated ‘Taylor Tickets’ app or website. Take all the control from the vampires. Just… make the same money differently if she’s desperate to keep making it. No excuse for not doing it. People would celebrate her no matter what.
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Someone once said her whole existence is just genius marketing. I've always seen it as that ever since I was made aware of it. Everything she does is well thought out. The people she dates might be part of that as well. I think it's gone beyond genius marketing and is creeping into mild brainwashing now. It's a cult. Why else would people pay that amount of money for her tickets?
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Someone once said her whole existence is just genius marketing. I've always seen it as that ever since I was made aware of it. Everything she does is well thought out. The people she dates might be part of that as well. I think it's gone beyond genius marketing and is creeping into mild brainwashing now. It's a cult. Why else would people pay that amount of money for her tickets?
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Someone will wander along and say it’s ’Supply and Demand’ at work. It’s not. She and a select few artists, have an exploitive monopoly over fans and it’s now just ugly. Demand that will forever exceed supply. Guaranteed to sell out gigs two, three, fives times over. So deciding to maximise revenue and empty the pockets of people as much as possible.

She probably puts on a great show. I’m told she plays close to three hours. She works hard, and undoubtedly deserves a level of success and fortune.

But being a Billionaire recording artist and performer and ripping off the people that keep you there… is Bezos/Musk/Whoever levels of shitty.

She does a lot of good through touring team bonuses and such. I commend her for that. But she’s emptying the pockets of families across the globe to do that, so Fcuk that noise too.
 
@UnrelatedPsuedo you're making some interesting points but I feel it's more a general one on the music industry (and while she's currently one of its biggest emanations, she doesn't have the monopoly on it) and I think it would be worth having a dedicated thread to that!
 
Rooney in Paris said:
@UnrelatedPsuedo you're making some interesting points but I feel it's more a general one on the music industry (and while she's currently one of its biggest emanations, she doesn't have the monopoly on it) and I think it would be worth having a dedicated thread to that!
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Yeah fair go. Dragged out my soapbox and got a wee bit ranty.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
@UnrelatedPsuedo you're making some interesting points but I feel it's more a general one on the music industry (and while she's currently one of its biggest emanations, she doesn't have the monopoly on it) and I think it would be worth having a dedicated thread to that!
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Ah I dunno. What she is at now is not the same sport as 99% of the industry, and if it was an industry norm, you can then broaden it to capitalism. I personally think she should face the criticism @UnrelatedPsuedo aimed at her.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Don’t really care if her albums are any good, or who enjoys them or doesn’t.

But allowing a system to exist that sees your rabid fans pay hundreds if not thousands of pounds for tickets… and still trying to pretend you’re a nice person… Nope.

It’s vile to allow that vampiric system to exist and she should be pulled apart for it. Her and a few other tentpole artists are dragging live performance prices to disgusting places and they’re never going back.

She’s an apex disaster stage capitalist and expects praise for ‘taking a stand’ on a few social issues. Fcuk all the way off with that shit. Sprinkling a few acts of kindness around that don’t make a dent in your daily earnings, let alone actual wealth, doesn’t change any of it.
Click to expand...
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Yeah, of course they do. They get a cut of dynamic pricing, and reseller sites. It’s why they don’t do anything about it.

I’m sure there are still old school tout prices that exist outside of the marketplace. But they used to be few and far between. Artists and Record labels have effectively teamed up with venues and festival organisers to legalise ticket scalping now.

It’s gross.

As an absolute bare minimum she do have a 25% of capacity lottery system for low income fans. Or just a straight lottery. Whatever. Or have tiered pricing that helps fans. Having the best seats in the arenas filled with the wealthiest people is ruining everything.

It’s so easy. Hamilton was the toughest ticket in town at one point. They still had a lottery system that allowed access for people at a sensible price point.

The girl is untouchable now. She’s apparently a billionaire. For buttons she could have a dedicated ‘Taylor Tickets’ app or website. Take all the control from the vampires. Just… make the same money differently if she’s desperate to keep making it. No excuse for not doing it. People would celebrate her no matter what.
Click to expand...
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Someone will wander along and say it’s ’Supply and Demand’ at work. It’s not. She and a select few artists, have an exploitive monopoly over fans and it’s now just ugly. Demand that will forever exceed supply. Guaranteed to sell out gigs two, three, fives times over. So deciding to maximise revenue and empty the pockets of people as much as possible.

She probably puts on a great show. I’m told she plays close to three hours. She works hard, and undoubtedly deserves a level of success and fortune.

But being a Billionaire recording artist and performer and ripping off the people that keep you there… is Bezos/Musk/Whoever levels of shitty.

She does a lot of good through touring team bonuses and such. I commend her for that. But she’s emptying the pockets of families across the globe to do that, so Fcuk that noise too.
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Bang on on everything you've said here, bravo, and if any artist on this planet has the power to do something about this then it's Taylor fecking Swift, but she won't, I mean why would she?
 
moses said:
Ah I dunno. What she is at now is not the same sport as 99% of the industry, and if it was an industry norm, you can then broaden it to capitalism. I personally think she should face the criticism @UnrelatedPsuedo aimed at her.
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Oh I agree wholeheartedly! I just think there's a more general point about the prices around the entertainment industry, and music specifically, not limited to her (but more extreme in her case) that would be worth discussing, all the while criticising her. Her jet flying around is also fair game :)
 
Crap. Last song of hers I heard is from 2015. And don't know what this thread is about. Just came on here to say she's crap.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Oh I agree wholeheartedly! I just think there's a more general point about the prices around the entertainment industry, and music specifically, not limited to her (but more extreme in her case) that would be worth discussing, all the while criticising her. Her jet flying around is also fair game :)
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Totally.


The industry as it was only exists for the 1%. It has changed entirely since the mid 2000's. That said gig prices are fecking absurd even with inflation etc taken into account.
 
moses said:
Totally.


The industry as it was only exists for the 1%. It has changed entirely since the mid 2000's. That said gig prices are fecking absurd even with inflation etc taken into account.
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Isn't that true for most things.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Isn't that true for most things.
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Yes, but within that the record industry has changed more than the rest of the world. It used to be more pyramid-shaped, but now the head of the beast is barely connected.

25 years ago many bands toured at a loss to promote record sales. Now the bands in the middle tier make 70% of their money from live.
 
This study was from 2012 but I can only imagine things have become worse

Pop music is too loud and it all sounds the same. That's the conclusion of scientists at the Spanish National Research Council, who have published a new report on songs released between 1955 and 2010, showing the "diversity of … note combinations … has consistently diminished in the last 50 years".

Measuring the Evolution of Contemporary Western Popular Music, by Joan Serrà, Álvaro Corral, Marián Boguñá, Martín Haro and Josep Ll Arcos, appears in the journal Scientific Reports . The researchers used a dataset of 464,411 music recordings to analyse what has changed – and what has stayed the same – over the past half-century of song. "Many of [music's] patterns and metrics have been consistently stable for [this] period," they wrote. "However, we prove important changes or trends related to the restriction of pitch transitions, the homogenisation of the timbral palette, and the growing loudness levels."

When researchers write about "pitch transitions", they mean the way notes are used – the variety of intervals, and the difference between one melody and another. Melodies are becoming more and more similar, Serra explained to Reuters. "We obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations – roughly speaking chords plus melodies – has consistently diminished in the last 50 years."

https://theguardian.com/music/2012/jul/27/pop-music-sounds-same-survey-reveals
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And one on lyrics from this year

When comparing today’s hit tunes with the top 40 of past decades, strong opinions are never in short supply. Every generation seems to lament its successor’s musical tastes and listening habits. Though science can’t necessarily account for such subjective preferences or generational divides, new research suggests popular music has indeed undergone some measurable and significant shifts over the past 50 years—with popular song lyrics becoming simpler and more repetitive, according to a study published on Thursday in Scientific Reports.

“There’s more rhyming lines and also more chorus,” says the study’s senior author Eva Zangerle, a computer scientist at Austria’s University of Innsbruck, who has developed music recommendation algorithms. “We basically found that lyrics [have gotten] easier to comprehend.” This trend, observed across five of the most popular English-language music genres (pop, rock, rap, R&B and country) since 1970, hints at how shifts in music listening habits, platforms and production may be shaping pop culture.


Zangerle and her co-authors compiled lyrics from 353,320 well-known songs released between 1970 and 2020. They used machine learning to single out these songs’ key linguistic features, such as the ratio of repeated words, the types of emotional cues, a readability score and the richness of vocabulary. Then they developed and trained additional models to sort and analyze those features across years in a representative subset of 12,000 songs.

The researchers discovered that the ratio of repeated to nonrepeated lines has ticked up across genres over the years, nearly doubling for pop songs and rising even more rapidly for rap music. The ratio of choruses to other song sections rose as well. The study also found that contemporary music lyrics convey more negative emotions and fewer positive ones than in the past and that songs have become more personal, with a higher frequency of pronouns such as “I” and “me”—echoing past research findings about shifts in lyrical content.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/song-lyrics-really-are-getting-simpler-and-more-repetitive-study-finds/
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Samid said:
Are we supposed to know who Niel Tennant is?
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fellowkids-480x273.jpg
 
Rooney in Paris said:
@UnrelatedPsuedo you're making some interesting points but I feel it's more a general one on the music industry (and while she's currently one of its biggest emanations, she doesn't have the monopoly on it) and I think it would be worth having a dedicated thread to that!
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Considering she starts off from Youtube i think the industry is very open these days. Any good joes and janes can make decent money making music. The next Taylor Swift might be the dude we listen to on YouTube now
 
Sky1981 said:
Considering she starts off from Youtube i think the industry is very open these days. Any good joes and janes can make decent money making music. The next Taylor Swift might be the dude we listen to on YouTube now
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Her dad was VP of Merrill Lynch and her mum worked in marketing. She was signed to a major label at 13 after her parents hired professional songwriters to work for her. She was definitely not someone who started off on YouTube and just became a star naturally.
 
I think I heard a Taylor Swift song when watching The Fall Guy. Just as boring and generic as I expected. Not bad, just bland.
 
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