Alternatively, you could give both teams the same challenge for the final: Do better than Valcareggi. Find a way to make both Rivera and Mazzola shine in the same setup.
Tactical Draft
- Thread starter Šjor Bepo
- Start date
Alternatively, you could give both teams the same challenge for the final: Do better than Valcareggi. Find a way to make both Rivera and Mazzola shine in the same setup.
Just realized that they are playing against each other in the final. Nice!
Round 2 Results
Team P-nut/Enigma - Pass, Pass
@P-Nut0712 @Enigma_87 @Skizzo
If both teams agree we can treat the final as a proper match, there are million reasons to say no to this idea so dont feel bad or forced into this if you dont want a change. Both can have their say via PM if that makes it easier.
Upgrades for the final:
Team P-nut/Enigma: Preud'Homme and Lizarazu
Team Skizzo: Careca and Voronin
Team P-nut/Enigma - Pass, Pass
@P-Nut0712 @Enigma_87 @Skizzo
If both teams agree we can treat the final as a proper match, there are million reasons to say no to this idea so dont feel bad or forced into this if you dont want a change. Both can have their say via PM if that makes it easier.
Upgrades for the final:
Team P-nut/Enigma: Preud'Homme and Lizarazu
Team Skizzo: Careca and Voronin
Last edited:
Would it not be better to have the picks revealed before choosing?
yeah sorry, doing multiple things in same time so i forgot. Will edit the post.
No problem cheers
I'm easy either way. a game would be fun but feels a bit strange to move away from the concept at this stage.
The first half of the game managers play their original central player and after the half time there is a mandatory switch; you can change your formation and make subs to accumulate your new central player - very much in the spirit of Valcareggi
That's brilliant, actually.
I'd love to see that. Would probably lead to a fairly low voter turnout, but who cares. It would be a grand way to finish the draft off - and it would keep the basic spirit of the draft intact to the last minute.
The first half of the game managers play their original central player and after the half time there is a mandatory switch; you can change your formation and make subs to accumulate your new central player - very much in the spirit of Valcareggi
I love both these ideas and I lobby Sjor to include at least one of them especially considering how odd it is that it is both the RIvera and Mazzola teams that made the final
@harms @Chesterlestreet
How would that work? At HT they get 2 subs + central player or 3 + central? Do they use both squads for subs or only their own?
How would that work? At HT they get 2 subs + central player or 3 + central? Do they use both squads for subs or only their own?
However you like. It was just an idea; in my opinion they should only use the squad they gathered so far. Not sure about the amount of the substitutions, and I don't know if the limit is required - it's highly unlikely that they'll make major changes that require more than 2 substitutions. But if they can and will do the radical switch with their squad, fair play.
im always open for a change but reckon its better not to over complicate things....let them choose between a proper match or a tactical one as it was until the final.
As harms says - whatever you like. But, yeah, they'd have to use their own squads - but they should have enough options there as it is.
Given that both main players occupy roughly the same position (but in different capacities), it would be very interesting to see how much of the supporting cast the managers would change or shuffle around.
But, yeah, just a wild idea, really - still, I think it could work as a grande finale kind of thing, since those two happen to be up against each other (well, not really, but still).
I'm fine with whatever the committee decides. Would be kind of interesting to build a team around both main players, but not sure how that would work in terms of votes etc.
I know I'm definitely fine no matter what's decided and I think @Enigma_87 will be the same as we have both said it's getting a bit stale discussing the same team over and over again.
ohh feck it, lets go with harms idea 
you guys decide when is the final we will arrange the rules.
you guys decide when is the final we will arrange the rules.
Yeah you go on guys whatever you can come up with I'm also fine with it.
Both teams are really well matched together IMO so it would be a fine line either way.
Both teams are really well matched together IMO so it would be a fine line either way.
My first final aswell so may aswell go for something special!
I work tomorrow through Sunday, so can do Monday - Thursday next week if that works for you? If not we can try and figure something out for sooner but I won't be around too much.
Fine by me
Ditto. Monday it is.
@Šjor Bepo
@Šjor Bepo
MOTM against Everton who were an excellent side and had just won the league and the European Cup Winner's Cup and needed the FA Cup to complete the treble.
Can't believe this wasn't up till now, there was just the performance of McGrath against Norway on youtube. Anyway, watch this one in particular, while you still can, filed a dispute, so might be taken down sooner or later
Last edited:
@Pat_Mustard in case you miss this, before the video is taken down
Nice one @Joga Bonito. Think the McGrath one was up a few years ago in a different form.
Cheers, probably got taken down too. Strange as the entire match, from which I made this video thinking it would be safe, is up on youtube and hasn't been taken down yet (the owner probably has permission from the copyright owner or something).
Great stuff, cheers mate! Watched and downloaded the Everton vids. Bastards have taken the Italy performance down already but most of that is etched into my brain already. What a cracking World Cup he had. If only this goal hadn't been disallowed:
Probably wouldn't have changed the outcome but it would have capped off McGrath's tournament in fine style.
Why on Earth of these vids pulled? I can understand it with more recent games to protect revenue streams but how much money is the rights holder going to make from a football video from the 80s?! Also how is compilation going to stop someone watching the full-game? If anything your more likely to watch it. Online copyright issues really piss me off
@Joga Bonito That's a wonderful Robbo compilation. McGrath too - of course. But the Robbo one really
illustrates what sort of player he was.
Note how often he is just close enough to the ball carrier to interfere, for instance – that was typical of his (defensive) game. Whether it was charging in to challenge, going in for an aerial challenge, or just closing down the player on the ball (often a playmaker) to distract him sufficiently – he did that all the time, to disrupt the flow of the opponent's build-up game.
And he did it while contributing – all the time, relentlessly – in a purely offensive capacity as well: Little flicks, longer passes (brilliantly weighted too – not all the time, but frequently) – and, of course, his trademark runs into the box to get on the end of passes.
Seeing that little vid is really a brilliant reminder of what he offered – and that was standard Robbo, not even at his absolute best, when he did all of the above in hyper mode and put the icing on the cake by scoring the winner.
What a player.
illustrates what sort of player he was.
Note how often he is just close enough to the ball carrier to interfere, for instance – that was typical of his (defensive) game. Whether it was charging in to challenge, going in for an aerial challenge, or just closing down the player on the ball (often a playmaker) to distract him sufficiently – he did that all the time, to disrupt the flow of the opponent's build-up game.
And he did it while contributing – all the time, relentlessly – in a purely offensive capacity as well: Little flicks, longer passes (brilliantly weighted too – not all the time, but frequently) – and, of course, his trademark runs into the box to get on the end of passes.
Seeing that little vid is really a brilliant reminder of what he offered – and that was standard Robbo, not even at his absolute best, when he did all of the above in hyper mode and put the icing on the cake by scoring the winner.
What a player.
Aye, that was quicker than expected
, they generally take at least a day or two to pull down videos after filing a dispute. Also have the Holland game (both the 1990 and 1994 games, god the Dutch must be sick at the sight of him ) and the Italy game in 1990 almost done but I already have one strike (due to the McGrath video), so sort of apprehensive now. Think will post it on dailymotion later, or maybe get someone to post it for me in the meanwhile as it's blocked for me right now.The manner of exit from the 1994 tournament was rather disappointing after that cracker of a game against Italy, they just seemed to miss Irwin at the back (not Kelly's fault, he had a good game, but Irwin's composure was missed imo). Phelan had a nightmare against Overmars and his Gerrard-esque back-pass gifted a goal for Bergkamp, and Bonner couldn't have chosen a worse time to fumble a long-range effort. Only McGrath, who dealt brilliantly with Bergkamp, and Keane (for all his 2001 heroics against the Dutch, this too was an absolute stormer from him) came out of the game with any sort of credit.
Ireland did fantastically well, and one could say they over-achieved in fairness, in the 1988 Euros tournament, 1990 and 1994 WC and as much as it was a team-effort, McGrath was absolutely colossal in each and every one of them. Amazing stuff really. Made me wonder, but was there ever a side who had a talismanic defender leading them and help them over-achieve etc. Not to downplay Ireland who had some excellent players and most importantly a cohesive, industrious and a well-drilled tactical unit, but it was certainly unique seeing McGrath leading the side and doing things that even the likes of Brady, Giles etc couldn't really achieve (although as I mentioned above they didn't feature in sides as tactically well-drilled as McGrath probably). Figueroa in 1974 perhaps, but Chile was just too underwhelming overall and scored just a single goal in their group games and didn't progress.
It's really silly imo. Esp as World Cup footage generally tends to be less likely to be taken down and I wasn't expecting it to be taken down as the entire match is already on youtube.
Last edited:
Aye, his defensive game really was top notch. There were games where he partnered Hoddle in a midfield duo, and he more or less had to carry the midfield all by himself. Full of tenacity but he wasn't just a gung-ho crazy press-er but had the discipline to track runners and knew where to position himself in front of the back 4. All in all a proper midfield general imo.
That's a vital point, both sides had played over 50 games (with Robson playing 46) and it showed during the ultimate stages of the game, esp during extra time with United being down to ten men. However, somehow or other he just managed to keep going and closing players down, making tackles and what not. Also Everton were definitely a fine team, and they actually needed the FA Cup to complete a treble having won the league and the European Cup Winners Cup, so it was a real cracker of a match, with both sides really going for it.
Sort of reminded me of his game in 1988 against the Dutch in the Euros where he was one of the very few to come out of the game with any sort of credit.
Btw, just posting the older videos that I made on him, as I get the impression that you might have missed the other ones. The one against France in particular is a gem, as close to a one man midfield display that you can find and he did it against France's carre magique, playing with Hoddle in a midfield duo
Cheers - I don't remember seeing them, actually, but then again I could have easily done so whilst under the influence, you know how that goes. I vaguely remember commenting on his - and England's - performance against Holland, so I probably did see it.
But it's great stuff at any rate. I think I'm going to download those, actually, to keep - in case they get taken down.
That Holland match is really interesting. England were in it - not outdone by any stretch. They just came up short in the grand scheme of things - Van Basten and so forth. But they weren't poor - it was a pretty good team, actually. Finished with zero points - but that really doesn't reflect the quality of that team.
Oh, yes. And that should be stressed, in case people are wondering what sort of level we're talking about here.
Everton were a top European side at the time, nothing short of it. So, look at that performance (standard Robbo) and add it to his performance against Barca in the CWC the year before. And consider the following:
Q-F:
Barca – United 2-0. Robbo back from injury, came on as a sub with less than 20 to go.
United – Barca 3-0. Robbo started, scored a brace (first) and then set up the winner through a brilliant diagonal pass out wide – and, well, just played a blinder in general. Against Schuster and Maradona.
S-F:
United – Juve (I hardly need to tell drafters who they sported at the time) 1-1. Robbo out injured.
Juve – United 2-1. Rossi grabbed the winner in the last minute. And Robbo was out injured again.
Imagine Robbo being available for those two matches.
Also I recall one of our forwards missing a gilt-edged chance in that game. Boy was McGrath immense in those games. Defended brilliantly but the World-Cup winning Italian defense simply had no answers whatsover to his aerial prowess, and he was arguably our most dangerous player in their box over both the legs
. Never seen a defender (played as a midfielder in this encounter though) cause that much havoc in the opposition penalty box as consistently as McGrath did in those 2 legs.A real shame Robson missed out on that encounter, given how it was his heroics against Barca which propelled us into the semis.
All in all, United in the eighties definitely underperformed in the league but were definitely some team on their day, with some excellent individual players, and could compete against the best.
Last edited:
May as well post it here - I made this Krankl video when we were considering him as Elkjaer's partner. He went unpicked in the end (which is a shame), but I suppose some may be interested in him anyway. The legendary Miracle of Cordoba - when Austria won their first game against West Germany (reigning world champions) in 47 years
I remember being quite surprised when I first researched him. Always though of him as a battling ram, but he was much more cultured on the ball - like with Kocsis and Fontain, his reputation doesn't do him justice
I remember being quite surprised when I first researched him. Always though of him as a battling ram, but he was much more cultured on the ball - like with Kocsis and Fontain, his reputation doesn't do him justice
Last edited:
Interesting question. Gamarra possibly? Although he had an incredible keeper behind him in fairness.
It's probably just revisionist bollocks from me, but part of me wonders if Ireland didn't have it them to be a bit more expansive in 88 and 90. The FAI supposedly approached Bob Paisley and Brian Clough as well as Jack Charlton for the manager job in 1986, and you'd fancy that either of those would have had a more natural relationship with the likes of Brady and O' Leary than Big Jack did. O' Leary/McGrath at CB, and a midfield containing Brady, Whelan and Houghton was potentially the nucleus of a good, progressive footballing team. It's hard to argue with Charlton's results relative to what came before though, and by 1994 with an aging squad Route One football was surely the best bet.
On the topic of Irish football, you might enjoy this great win vs Blokhin's USSR:
It's interesting as it was Liam Brady's international debut, and Johnny Giles as player-manager not only picked him but played alongside him. There's some great bits of play from both of them in there. One last aside regarding Brady's first ever meeting with Charlton:
Yes, hit the post, iirc. Possibly Stapleton.
On the other hand, Bailey pulled out a few top saves as well - I remember one from Boniek (I think) in particular.
Aye, Brady was a class act and wasn't too lucky on the international scene for various reasons. Funnily enough, he was hardly a luxury playmaker and had just about enough industry to fit into Ireland's template imo. No doubt though, Chartlon does deserve all the plaudits for achieving what he did.
Brilliant. We picked him in an Auction Draft ages ago but didn't really research him enough to play him ahead of the shinier names. With his industry, eagerness to drop deep to get on the ball, and that explosive dart towards goal for his 2nd goal, he reminds me a bit of Denis Law stylistically in that video.