I entirely agree with that. Note also Raul was at his best with Morientes a very much sub-Ruud type of striker.
Surveillance Draft - R1- Physiocrat vs mazhar13/Enigma_87
- Thread starter green_smiley
- Start date
I entirely agree with that. Note also Raul was at his best with Morientes a very much sub-Ruud type of striker.
Raul's best always came next to proper #9s like Morientes.
should be the other way around if you are looking at taking the best out of Signori.
He dropped deep alright but his favorite position was central and again that's the reason why he didn't appreciate being played as a hard working left winger by Sacchi.
When he played with Sacchi as a left-winger it was in a 442 where his role was to keep the left of midfield. This is not what he does all game and not in possession which I will have more of.
I don't think that's given at all. Riquelme will have little to zero effort in that midfield, Kanchelskis is in attacking role and Signori who is expected to be a left winger tracking back off the ball of some sorts.
I'm still not sure what Signori's role is off the ball. Just occupying the space or tracking back? Cause if it is the latter I just can't see it happening.
Before voted, I thought this would be a landslide. From attack to defence (except the Gk), Mazhar/Enigma's is at least a notch above their opponent.
How about Rebrov-Shevchenko, with Sheva as the lead? I think Rebrov is similar to Raul.
He will do some tracking on the left wing, there's no point just standing on the left wing without the ball. I think Signori's main complaint with Sacchi was he was stuck wide left whereas here he can move inside. Also your team is not set-up for possession football
Signori main complaint was that he was played on the left wing while he wanted to play centrally. As I said, that's not Signori game at all expecting him to do on regular basis covering a not so defensively solid Serginho as well.
We won't sit deep it's not possession style football we're after but rather share the possession. Having in mind the personnel in both teams I can't see your team having upper hand and dominate the midfield.
Thanks mate, I think we have a clear advantage on the flanks(especially with Thuram playing in a central role) and Raul/Sheva as a better forward line.
It's just my opinion but I don't think it's that strange to be honest, Sheva/Raul immediately jumped out to me as being a bit off in terms of a strike partnership but it's fine if you disagree.
I can't remember every AC Milan game from the early 00's but my recollection was that Shevchenko was always much more than an orthodox #9 leading the line (which in my view is the type of forward you want to partner with Raul). That was most obvious with Crespo and Inzaghi where he clearly played the role of a second striker, and whilst he may have played as a sole striker at times in his Milan career I don't think he played the position any differently.
I personally don't recall him doing so at least and all my recollections of Shevchenko were of a complete forward who dropped deep and drifted wide, which I don't think is a great fit with Raul.
I think Kaka/Sheva is pretty well known partnership hence I found it a bit strange. Kaka was playing behind Sheva who was the sole forward. Before that he was playing with Tomasson who is a SS himself. Crespo coincided only one season with Sheva and to be honest Shevchenko played with a lot of partners and didn't look less of a threat or in an awkward role in any of them at his peak.
Much like Ronaldo was a #9 who drifter wide and moved a lot but that doesn't make him a SS
Of course we can agree to disagree on that one.I think Kaka/Sheva is pretty well known partnership hence I found it a bit strange. Kaka was playing behind Sheva who was the sole forward. Before that he was playing with Tomasson who is a SS himself. Crespo coincided only one season with Sheva and to be honest Shevchenko played with a lot of partners and didn't look less of a threat or in an awkward role in any of them at his peak.
Much like Ronaldo was a #9 who drifter wide and moved a lot but that doesn't make him a SS
I think with Shevchenko he's best as a second-striker or as a lone forward in a 433 with wide forwards which is exactly how I'd use R9. He's limited when he is the main striker.
Seems very strange that so many posts have been about Shevchenko/Raul. Looking at this, I don't think that'd be a concern in the slightest. Shevchenko was a deadly goal scorer, Raul always did well just off the main striker. Overall I prefer Mazhar/Enigma, nicely balance side who'd win this in my opinion.
You mean 4-3-3 - a formation he literally never played at his peak?
Never playing in a position doesn't mean he wouldn't excel in that position. He has all the attributes, similar to Suarez in some ways, to play that role brilliantly. I think it's clear he's best as a lone forward or a second striker.
Done
30 mins - injury update
If anything wouldn't wide players get in his way as he liked to roam around a lot and thrived with trequartistas behind him.
As a second striker in a 442.. I could see that working but 433 wouldn't be the best fit for him but not impossible either.. Peak Sheva was a very versatile player.
30 mins - injury update
Physiocrat's team - Kanchelskis is injured and replaced by Jorgensen
Player Name - Player Position - Player Role
Oliver Kahn - Goalkeeper - Stop the opposition from scoring
Thiago Silva - Centre Back - Ball Playing CB/ Covering Defender
Sol Campbell - Centre Back - Stopper
Lilian Thuram - Right Back - Defensive
Serginho - Left Back - Attacking, wing back style
Daniele De Rossi - Defensive Midfielder - Holding and Destroying Midfielder
Luka Modric - Central Midfielder – Creative CM
Juan Roman Riquelme - Attacking Midfielder – Classic No.10 Playmaker
Martin Jorgensen - Right Wing – Classic Winger
Beppe Signori - Left Forward – Inside Forward
Ruud van Nistelrooy - Centre Forward – Cultured Target Man
Player Name - Player Position - Player Role
Oliver Kahn - Goalkeeper - Stop the opposition from scoring
Thiago Silva - Centre Back - Ball Playing CB/ Covering Defender
Sol Campbell - Centre Back - Stopper
Lilian Thuram - Right Back - Defensive
Serginho - Left Back - Attacking, wing back style
Daniele De Rossi - Defensive Midfielder - Holding and Destroying Midfielder
Luka Modric - Central Midfielder – Creative CM
Juan Roman Riquelme - Attacking Midfielder – Classic No.10 Playmaker
Martin Jorgensen - Right Wing – Classic Winger
Beppe Signori - Left Forward – Inside Forward
Ruud van Nistelrooy - Centre Forward – Cultured Target Man
mazhar/enigma's team - no injury
I think that is a fair criticism to be honest. It's been taken as a given that Raul and Shevchenko is a great fit but Shevchenko thrived with Crespo or Inzaghi.. Or up front alone with playmakers behind him.
It wasn't a Raul type player he ever featured with.
Peak Sheva played with Tomasson and Kaka who are more closer to Raul than Crespo or Inzaghi.
I don't think it could be issue, as you said both Raul and Sheva are quite versatile and will get along well. Sheva has the right wing when Silva goes inside and Zanetti to combine with pretty much like Cafu was overlapping on that flank more often than not.
On the other side you have Signori who himself hated to be shunted to that left wing and after the injury he still plays there with Serginho who is not the most solid left back behind him.
I think having Kanchelskis off who is probably Physio's best wide man makes the difference in quality on the flanks even bigger in our favor.Physiocrat's team - Kanchelskis is injured and replaced by Jorgensen
Player Name - Player Position - Player Role
Oliver Kahn - Goalkeeper - Stop the opposition from scoring
Thiago Silva - Centre Back - Ball Playing CB/ Covering Defender
Sol Campbell - Centre Back - Stopper
Lilian Thuram - Right Back - Defensive
Serginho - Left Back - Attacking, wing back style
Daniele De Rossi - Defensive Midfielder - Holding and Destroying Midfielder
Luka Modric - Central Midfielder – Creative CM
Juan Roman Riquelme - Attacking Midfielder – Classic No.10 Playmaker
Martin Jorgensen - Right Wing – Classic Winger
Beppe Signori - Left Forward – Inside Forward
Ruud van Nistelrooy - Centre Forward – Cultured Target Man
Raul at his peak was scoring 25-30 goals a season for 5 seasons in a row.. so I slightly disagree that Kaka is similar. Kaka is a goalscoring attacking midfielder which is slightly different to a second striker like a Raul or Dalglish/Rooney imo. But yeah no reason why they wouldn't be able to combine, just takes imagination.
Have you seen him playing for Dynamo? Look at the games versus Barca, for example, where Rebrov plays behind him and Sheva is the focal point of their attack (3 goals at Nou Kamp)
My point was more that Kaka is not a target man far from it and Sheva was banging them in with another overlapping player on the wing like Cafu
Some Neville analysis of David Silva from 11/12 worth a share I think
and a compilation of his talents.
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That compilation is no different to what I remember about Sheva in his Milan days. Pretty much everything in this video is akin to what I've seen from Sheva at Milan, which isn't this "second striker" role that several voters have seemed to have fallen for strangely.
I mean, this video shows that he was less of a second striker than someone like Raúl, and I don't see how they can't work together. Their movement will keep the defence guessing constantly, making them concerned about whether they need to pull out wide, and they will always be in the areas to score goals, particularly Sheva as you can see in the video above.
Injury update - 60 min
No injuries on 60 min
Makes no sense to me. I'd also rather swap Sol and Thiago. And, while I understand why De Rossi is LCM, I prefer Modric on that side.
You can't just swap players around like that. If you have Modric you should think twice about Serginho and his apparent need for a DM there, because you risk getting less Modric, which is my reading here.
I think it is really, pretty much settled my vote.
What do you mean? We have 2 CM's with 2 fullbacks, 1 winger and one free roaming winger/forward. Why do we need the CM's to create width for us? If you look at Physio's flanks, which are really underwhelming considering Thuram is in defensive role and he has Jorgensen, Serginho and a CF/SS Signori who hates being shunted on the wing to create the width for his team?
I'm looking forward to some feedback as I really can't see Physio winning this one. The only area where he has advantage is IMO the keeper.
Yes the loss of Kanchelskis is huge IMO. Hasn't been talked about at all.. for me he was one of the big reasons I was in two minds as to who to vote for.
Indeed. Jorgensen is a really underwhelming choice in this company, yet it is barely mentioned or had effect on the voting.
Not to mention Kanchelskis and Ruud.. wow, for me I was salivating over that pairing. Kanchelskis is kind of winger, who if on fire can tear apart any full back.
Yes, Kanchelskis was a good choice to replicate Beckham/Ruud partnership, but with him gone and Jorgensen/Serginho on the flanks the service for Ruud is really limited at this point.
Jorgensen? The Fiorentina guy?
yup and Udinese.