Strongest Ever National Team XI

Interesting. Rubén Sosa ahead of Suárez on the bench? I don't exactly remember him setting the world on fire at any continental/international tournament apart from the UEFA Cup he won with Inter. Where would you rate Suárez among Uruguay's all-time forwards at the moment?

Sosa won two Copa Américas where Enzo was the star, but single-handedly took us to the final in another which we lost (against Brazil, in Brazil, fecking Romario...). For a couple of years he eclipsed Francescoli as the best player, and I wouldn't say that lightly. Ultimately though it was a case of inside forwards vs. width, we've had phenomenal inside forwards so I opted for three at the back and wingbacks/halfbacks. Ghiggia and Sosa would be the ones on the wings if width were required.

Suárez is a tough one, he will no doubt end up as our top scorer despite all the suspensions, but he is no better than any of that front four in their roles. Not Enzo, not Schiaffino, who are far superior players. Rocha is a completely different player, and with that sort of service Morena is a far more prolific and deadly striker.

He is probably more complete than some of them, but doesn't do anything in particular better. For everything he is good at someone there is better at it. Would have warranted a place on the bench ahead of Diego, but Diego's performances in South Africa give him an edge. For now, just about.
 
Gilmar

Roberto Carlos
Domingos da Guia
Luis Pereira
Cafu

Falcao
Zico
Ronaldinho

Pele
Romario
Ronaldo

who cares about defending anyways?
 
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My French national team

---------------------------------Barthez-------------------------------------
Thuram-------------------Blanc--------Dessailly-------------------Lizarazu
--------------------------------Deschamps-----------------------------------
------------------------Zidane----------Platini--------------------------------
Henry----------------------------Papin----------------------------Rocheteau

Subs :

-----------------------------------Batts---------------------------------------
Amoros-------------------Tresor--------Bossis----------------------Di Meco
---------------------------------Fernandez-----------------------------------
------------------------Tigana----------Giresse--------------------------------
Fontaine--------------------------Trezeguet---------------------------Koppa
 
My Austria all-time XI ....

Zeman
Sara Pezzey Happel Hanappi
Alaba
Prohaska Ocwirk Herzog
Sindelar Krankl


How highly would you rate Prohaska and exactly what kind of player was he? I've read a lot of good things about him and he is regarded as Austria's best player ever isn't he?
 
Haven't we done this already?
I think this is the third time round.

Anyway, here is Scotland. It'd present a great match against England:

ECOSSE-formation-tactics.png


Subs: Mackay, Miller, Gallacher, McGrory, Gemmell, Bremner, James, Meiklejohn​
 
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---------Fontaine/Henry--------
-------------------Platini--------
------Zidane---------------------
-----Tigana-------Vieira-------
-------------Kopa---------------
Lizerazu----------------Thuram
---------Blanc--Desailly-------
-----------Barthez--------------

I'd go for similar players but in a more convention 4-2-3-1:

FRANCE-formation-tactics.png
 
Is there any way to include Kopa, Zidane and Platini in a French all time XI without it looking a bit wrong?

I guess the back four is set, and I can't think of a better French goalkeeper than Barthez, Bats wasn't anything special either in my opinon.

Fontaine
Zidane - Platini - Kopa
Tigana Vieira
Lizarazu - Blanc - Desailly - Thuram
Barthez
Usually I'm not a big fan of too many AMs in the team, but I could see that those three make it work. Henry misses out because in my opinion he never reached his peak Arsenal form for the nationalteam, Fontaine was the better striker for France.

/edit:
seems like Gio went with a similar AM line-up, but disagrees on the defense :lol:
 
I tried the German one earlier so look a few posts above
Italy
.....................buffon..................
.........scirea...baresi....picchi......
Gentile............pirlo................maldini
...........rivera................mazolla........
..................bagio....meazza...........

So many great sweepers / centrebacks
I think you'd need to choose between Scirea and Baresi, but otherwise not bad. This one could slide into a back four when Facchetti went rampaging down the flank.

ita-formation-tactics.png
 
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Is there any way to include Kopa, Zidane and Platini in a French all time XI without it looking a bit wrong?

I guess the back four is set, and I can't think of a better French goalkeeper than Barthez, Bats wasn't anything special either in my opinon.

Fontaine
Zidane - Platini - Kopa
Tigana Vieira
Lizarazu - Blanc - Desailly - Thuram
Barthez
Usually I'm not a big fan of too many AMs in the team, but I could see that those three make it work. Henry misses out because in my opinion he never reached his peak Arsenal form for the nationalteam, Fontaine was the better striker for France.

/edit:
seems like Gio went with a similar AM line-up, but disagrees on the defense :lol:
Yeah I'd be happy with your proven back four, there's nothing in it really. Not a big fan of Barthez, but Bats was a bit average in this context as well. A weakspot really compared to the rest of the team. Kopa reprises the inside-right role he grudgingly had at Real - not ideal, but could do a good job nonetheless.
 
The Italian one is always a nightmare. You could argue that Scirea deserves the right centerback spot ahead of Nesta just to be in it, he was a damn brilliant centerback without the sweeping in his latter years after all. You could also cheat and play Maldini rightback and Facchetti leftback. I'm not a big fan of Bergomi as a right wingback in a back five. It's all rather annoying, in a back five I'd prefer Scirea as the central defender over Baresi, but you can't leave Baresi out, he's probably the greatest Italian footballer of all time. Whatever way you do it, it always looks a bit wrong. At least the rest of the team is fairly easy.

If you want to include the biggest names:

Facchetti - Baresi - Scirea - Nesta - Maldini

is in my opinion the best way, but it certainly doesn't look right either, even though I think it would work.
 

Where does Cobi Jones rank in terms of the national team? I understand he spent the majority of his career in MLS, was that because he was a Landon Donovan type who wanted to stay at home, or just not that talented? 164 caps is pretty impressive, yet he doesn't even feature on your bench.
 
Italy best XI (5-3-2)

GK: Zoff
RB: Burgnich
SWP: Baresi
DCR: Scirea
DCL: Maldini
LB: Facchetti

MC: Tardelli
MC: Rivera
MC: Pirlo

#
AM: Baggio
STK: Riva
 
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The Italian one is always a nightmare. You could argue that Scirea deserves the right centerback spot ahead of Nesta just to be in it, he was a damn brilliant centerback without the sweeping in his latter years after all. You could also cheat and play Maldini rightback and Facchetti leftback. I'm not a big fan of Bergomi as a right wingback in a back five. It's all rather annoying, in a back five I'd prefer Scirea as the central defender over Baresi, but you can't leave Baresi out, he's probably the greatest Italian footballer of all time. Whatever way you do it, it always looks a bit wrong. At least the rest of the team is fairly easy.

If you want to include the biggest names:

Facchetti - Baresi - Scirea - Nesta - Maldini

is in my opinion the best way, but it certainly doesn't look right either, even though I think it would work.

Facchetti was left back. Also there much better Italian CBs then friggin Nesta.
 
I think you'd need to choose between Scirea and Baresi, but otherwise not bad. This one could slide into a back four when Facchetti went rampaging down the flank.

ita-formation-tactics.png

Leaving Gigi Riva out of the Italian best ever team is like leaving George Best out of the United best ever XI or Zidane out of the French best XI.

Also Nesta, Bergomi? Seriously?
 
Facchetti was left back. Also there much better Italian CBs then friggin Nesta.
Well, yeah, that's what I wrote. It's the back-line from left to right. Maldini started as a rightback, even though he rarely played it for Milan or the nationalteam. Both Bergomi and Burgnich were defensive fullbacks, basically right sided centerbacks. I don't mind them on the right in a back four, but as a right wingback in a back five? Not really.
 
Henry misses out because in my opinion he never reached his peak Arsenal form for the nationalteam, Fontaine was the better striker for France.

I agree with that, but isn't the point of this thread to pick the best players? There is no mention of national team form in the OP. If that were the case then Cannavaro should surely be in the Italy team ahead of Nesta.
 
Well, yeah, that's what I wrote. It's the back-line from left to right. Maldini started as a rightback, even though he rarely played it for Milan or the nationalteam. Both Bergomi and Burgnich were defensive fullbacks, basically right sided centerbacks. I don't mind them on the right in a back four, but as a right wingback in a back five? Not really.

Traditionally the Italians saw the full backs as defensive players who could take the hits while the middle of the park did the damage. I introduced alot of attacking minded players in the team so I needed a rock solid defense who can get the hits. My defense is safer then fort knox.
 
I agree with that, but isn't the point of this thread to pick the best players? There is no mention of national team form in the OP. If that were the case then Cannavaro should surely be in the Italy team ahead of Nesta.
Well, the thread is called Strongest Ever Nationalteam XI, so I thought I had a point. I think it's a bit different with Cannavaro. He's simply in general a worse player and Nesta performed to his best level for Italy, was just unlucky to get injured in the group stages at World Cups 3 times. Henry doesn't have such an excuse and the gap between Henry and Fontaine is almost non-existent anyway.
 
Traditionally the Italians saw the full backs as defensive players who could take the hits while the middle of the park did the damage. I introduced alot of attacking minded players in the team so I needed a rock solid defense who can get the hits. My defense is safer then fort knox.

I don't understand why are you criticizing Bergomi in Gio's team, when you have Burgnich in yours - both Bergomi and Gentile are at least on the same level for this semi-right back position and, personally, I would've rate them higher.
 
I don't understand why are you criticizing Bergomi in Gio's team, when you have Burgnich in yours - both Bergomi and Gentile are at least on the same level for this semi-right back position and, personally, I would've rate them higher.

I liked Bergomi but he's not as good as Burgnich.
 
Traditionally the Italians saw the full backs as defensive players who could take the hits while the middle of the park did the damage. I introduced alot of attacking minded players in the team so I needed a rock solid defense who can get the hits. My defense is safer then fort knox.
Traditionally they played with a mean 3 man defense and one attacking fullback in defense. If you want Burgnich on the right, you basically get a 4 centerback defense with Facchetti as a winger, it's not how Italy played at all.

That's grande Inter with Burgnich as a right sided centerback/fullback. Playing him on the right of a back five is nonsense. Maldini at least was an attacking fullback early in his career.

256311d1340802202-helenio-herrera-grande-inter-recreation-tactic-la-grande-inter-model1.jpg
 
Traditionally they played with a mean 3 man defense and one attacking fullback in defense. If you want Burgnich on the right, you basically get a 4 centerback defense with Facchetti as a winger, it's not how Italy played at all.

That's grande Inter with Burgnich as a right sided centerback/fullback. Playing him on the right of a back five is nonsense. Maldini at least was an attacking fullback early in his career.

256311d1340802202-helenio-herrera-grande-inter-recreation-tactic-la-grande-inter-model1.jpg


As said Im playing Bruno Conti who was pretty lightweight and Baggio. Someone need to keep things tight and Burgnich was a rock. The Italians are spoiled with choice in terms of defenders. You dont play players out of position there. Its like playing Dunga in attack for Brazil.

In my team you have a massive wall in defense which wont be broken. In midfield Tardelli (fantastic Keano type of defensive midfielder and Pirlo would allow Rivera and Baggio to cut through the defense and create chances for the Rombo di tuono to score goals.
 
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---------------Ladić

Srna-------Bilić-----R. Kovač-----Jarni

-----Boban---N. Kovač---Prosinečki

--------------Modrić

----------Šuker-----Eduardo (before injury)

Subs: Pletikosa, Štimac, Asanović, Stanić, Bokšić, Rakitić
 
Italy best XI (5-3-2)

GK: Zoff
RB: Burgnich
SWP: Baresi
DCR: Scirea
DCL: Maldini
LB: Facchetti

MC: Tardelli
MC: Rivera
MC: Pirlo

AM: Conti
AM: Baggio
STK: Riva

Oh, I finally figured why your team looked odd to me, it has 12 players in it :lol:
 
As said Im playing Bruno Conti who was pretty lightweight and Baggio. Someone need to keep things tight and Burgnich was a rock. The Italians are spoiled with choice in terms of defenders. You dont play players out of position there. Its like playing Dunga in attack for Brazil.
You're also playing 12 players by the way :lol:
Italy best XI (5-3-2)

GK: Zoff
RB: Burgnich
SWP: Baresi
DCR: Scirea
DCL: Maldini
LB: Facchetti

MC: Tardelli
MC: Rivera
MC: Pirlo

AM: Conti
AM: Baggio
STK: Riva

If you want to play a defensive rightback, fair enough. But then you have to leave one of the 3 central defenders out, or it completely lacks balance like you kinda showed when you went with 12 players instead of 11.
 
You're also playing 12 players by the way :lol:


If you want to play a defensive rightback, fair enough. But then you have to leave one of the 3 central defenders out, or it completely lacks balance like you kinda showed when you went with 12 players instead of 11.

I sorted it out.

Still doesn't make sense to play Maldini as frigging right back in a national team who invented defense.

Why do you think it lacks balance? Maldini is the typical ball playing defender who can easily move forward with the ball. Tardelli was a beast and Pirlo is one of the most intelligent deep lying playmakers I've ever seen. Rivera and Baggio are magnificent upfront in terms of creativity and Riva is Riva.
 
I sorted it out.

Still doesn't make sense to play Maldini as frigging right back in a national team who invented defense.

I still believe that this would be a better balanced side - yours lacks wing threat that Conti provided.

----------- Baggio -- Riva
--------------- Rivera ----- Conti
Facchetti ---- Pirlo -- Tardelli
-------Maldini - Baresi - Bergomi
---------------- Zoff​
 
I sorted it out.

Still doesn't make sense to play Maldini as frigging right back in a national team who invented defense.
What doesn't make any sense is to add a 4th centerback and leave Meazza out of the team. Italians knew how to defend and didn't have to do it in numbers. Oh and I said my suggestion looks wrong and is only about including the big names, I'm not argueing that it's the best team like you do with your questionable suggestion.
 
Well, the thread is called Strongest Ever Nationalteam XI, so I thought I had a point. I think it's a bit different with Cannavaro. He's simply in general a worse player and Nesta performed to his best level for Italy, was just unlucky to get injured in the group stages at World Cups 3 times. Henry doesn't have such an excuse and the gap between Henry and Fontaine is almost non-existent anyway.

Yeah fair point, though personally if it was based purely on national team form I'd have Cannavaro ahead of Nesta.

Also re the Maldini at RB debate, to be fair Balu did say that lineup was just if you wanted to fit in all the big names.
 
I still believe that this would be a better balanced side - yours lacks wing threat that Conti provided.

Baggio Riva
Rivera Conti
Facchetti Pirlo Tardelli
Maldini Baresi Bergomi
Zoff​

yeah I miss Conti hence why the 12 player team. However Id rather have Baggio and Rivera in the team then Conti. The Italians always seem to struggle to understand how to utilize wingers effectively.
 
What doesn't make any sense is to add a 4th centerback and leave Meazza out of the team. Italians knew how to defend and didn't have to do it in numbers. Oh and I said my suggestion looks wrong and is only about including the big names, I'm not argueing that it's the best team like you do with your questionable suggestion.

The italian way was always

a) give first priority to the defense
b) keep the ball in midfield
c) allow the attacking minded players to focus on their magic.

I think my team would achieve that.

The defense is rock solid. with a mix of tough guys (ex Burgnich) and intelligent players such as Baresi and Scirea on the prowl. Maldini can focus in the role of ball playing defender and he's the best in the world in that thing.

Tardelli and Pirlo are masters in ball retention and delivering the ball to the right channels,

Rivera and Baggio are god damn creative and intelligent enough to stretch wide if needed.

Riva is a complete forward.

Id say let teams with wingers focus in breaking that defense up. Burgnich and Faccetti are rock solid and Scirea, Maldini and Baresi will keep the forwards at bay. When the ball is in the center of the park Maldini would move forward adding more creativity in a powerful CM which has the brilliance, steel and the numbers to dominate anyone (Baggio can drop deep, Rivera, Maldini, Tardelli, Pirlo). When attacking, Baggio and Rivera would dart upfront creating pockets of space for Rivera to score (both Baggio and Rivera can score loads by themselves).
 
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@devilish Yeah was mulling over Riva, he'd fit there nicely in fairness. Equally we should have some nod to the Italian team that won two World Cups in the 1930s.

I take it you're not a fan of Nesta? Again I'm not convinced on playing Scirea and Baresi together, it could work but it wouldn't be optimal. Much like bunging Maldini at right-back. Italy's problem here is they've got plenty of RCBs but few exceptional RWBs - Bergomi, Gentile, Burgnich - they're all a bit unnatural there albeit all would offer defensive solidity.
 
@devilish Yeah was mulling over Riva, he'd fit there nicely in fairness. Equally we should have some nod to the Italian team that won two World Cups in the 1930s.

I take it you're not a fan of Nesta? Again I'm not convinced on playing Scirea and Baresi together, it could work but it wouldn't be optimal. Much like bunging Maldini at right-back. Italy's problem here is they've got plenty of RCBs but few exceptional RWBs - Bergomi, Gentile, Burgnich - they're all a bit unnatural there albeit all would offer defensive solidity.


Wait I am a massive fan of Nesta. I would have probably ripped my right arm off to see us get him when he was available. Nesta-Rio would have been simply brilliant and a much better option to Wes and friggin Silvestre (the latter was a disaster waiting to happen). Having said that, he is certainly not amongst the best Italian CBs of all time. In matter of fact he wasn't the best Italian CB of his era (Cannavaro was).

Scirea and Baresi would work just fine. Both defenders are incredibly intelligent players, very selfless, all rounders and great leaders. Hence why they were utilized as Sweepers which was considered, back at the time, as the role responsible to keep the defense in line and the person to fix any possible collapse in the defense. Sweepers were the defense version of complete forward in attack, hence why the italian word for the role was 'libero' ie free. The SWP was so good that he could be left doing whatever he wanted which is kind of admirable considered how Italians were obsessed in tactics.

I've already explained my tactic which, I believe to be pretty balanced.
 
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Wait I am a massive fan of Nesta. I would have probably ripped my right arm off to see us get him when he was available. Nesta-Rio would have been simply brilliant and a much better option to Wes and friggin Silvestre (the latter was a disaster waiting to happen). Having said that, he is certainly not amongst the best Italian CBs of all time. In matter of fact he wasn't the best Italian CB of his era (Cannavaro was).

Scirea and Baresi would work just fine. Both defenders are incredibly intelligent players, very selfless, all rounders and great leaders. Hence why they were utilized as Sweepers which was considered, back at the time, as the role responsible to keep the defense in line and the person to fix any possible collapse in the defense. Sweepers were the defense version of complete forward in attack.

I've already explained my tactic which, I believe to be pretty balanced.
A Cannavaro v Nesta debate then. My take is that Nesta had the stronger career at club level but Cannavaro the better at international level - and his 2006 World Cup is one of the greatest series of performances by any player at any time. Ultimately if the teams were a reflection of international football, then the back five would have to include Facchetti - Cannavaro - Baresi - Scirea - Maldini - as all five shone on that stage.
 
I still believe that this would be a better balanced side - yours lacks wing threat that Conti provided.

----------- Baggio -- Riva
--------------- Rivera ----- Conti
Facchetti ---- Pirlo -- Tardelli
-------Maldini - Baresi - Bergomi
---------------- Zoff​

Was Rossi overrated or something? No one seems to be including him