Stefan de Vrij - 2018

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ti vu said:
Netherlands lost to Argentine on penalty. The thing is their campaign was built on the solidity of the back. Downplaying the defenders because they lost semi final on penalty is quite amusing.
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I agree with this. In a same way just because the player played semi finals won't make him any better than other better CBs who played for inferior team or coach.

For example, Blind played in very single game as LWB, don't think anyone would say he is better than say Alonso or Marcelo who both finished lower than Netherlands. IIRC Kuyt and Janmaat played as RWBs, so they are not better than what we have.

On de Vrij, he is very good though. For me he is better on the ball than anyone we have but when it comes to defending I would say Smalling is better.
 
Mcking said:
Playing in a world cup semi-final which his team lost does not make him better than someone who's never had the chance to play on that stage. Vlaar played alongside De Vrij, but is he exactly better than Smalling?
It's pretty difficult to compare special awarenesses and concentration levels though. Smalling surely at times gets turned easily due to his large turning circle, but his awareness, concentration and reading of the game are top notch.
De Vrij gets more dominated by strikers, wins few headers and loses his man more often compared to Smalling who is one of the most dominant defenders in the world. Pace, skill, strenght and power, Smalling is comfortable dealing with them all - he's the complete old fashioned defender.
The only way I'd say De Vrij betters Smalling is on the ball. Even at that, Smalling looks awkward but hardly ever gives the ball away though. Say what you want, but Smalling would be considered as one of the best CBs in the world if he could pass the ball very well and if he doesn't play for Manchester United.
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He was a penalty shoot out win away from reaching the world Cup final at 22 against Argentina. As a defender he more than did enough to shut out Leo Messi and co in that semi final and was tactically superb through out the tournament...

In what game was De Vrij losing his marker more often? Lazio play a more expansive game compared to us and their defenders often have to deal with more breakaways when you compare how we've set up since SAF retired with three negative defensive minded managers who think to stifle first, especially in the big games which has preserved quite a few careers at the club, including Smalling...

Smalling as a pure defender is good, infact he's very good but his limitations on the ball are quite glaring when you see him play for a elite level club like United. He's also good in the air and he probably does have the edge over Di Vrij in that regard. He's not even close to being amongst the best defenders in the world, to say otherwise is laughable. This is not the 90s anymore and football has evolved since then and you need to do alot more than hoof/header the ball away now. How many times do you need to see Smalling attack space in the centre, only to then turn around and pass it back to one of the fullbacks because of his sub par ability on the ball...?

Smalling is quick but not as quick as some of you make him out to be. Jog your memory back to the FA cup final against Crystal Palace when Smalling got isolated up field against Connor Wickham. Wickham not only beat him for pace but rag dolled him physically on the left wing.

We're Manchester United and should have a established CB who can bring the ball out from the back and play passes between the lines like other defenders from huge clubs like Bayern, Barca, Madrid etc. Is that too much to ask for?
 
If there was a realistic chance of signing Alderwiereld, would anyone still prefer De Vrij?
 
SaboTaj said:
If there was a realistic chance of signing Alderwiereld, would anyone still prefer De Vrij?
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We should still sign De Vrij on a free. We need to improve our defenders from a technical stand point and a player like De Vrij will do that.
 
SaboTaj said:
If there was a realistic chance of signing Alderwiereld, would anyone still prefer De Vrij?
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The idea is to have him as 3rd or 4th choice CB with Alderweireld and Bailly as the first choice with Jones, De Vrij, Lindelof and Axel as backup.This means that we can sell 2 /3 of our CBs and at the same time get a youngish ball playing CB for free.I don't want him as first choice, but as 3rd choice CB I think he would be good .
 
And not many would've predicted Alderweireld would've become the CB he is now when he landed at Southampton a few years back.
 
Mcking said:
A lot of silly posts here. De Vrij is quite an inferior defender compared to Smalling.
We always seem to overrate players that don't play for us while simultaneously shitting on ours.
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Keeps It tidy said:
Especially our CBs. I have no idea why people can think CBs are our problem.
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You’ve got this all wrong. Despite filling our attack with star studded, proven, top tier players like Lukaku, Sanchez, Pogba and Martial, we still struggle to cohesively attack and consistently score goals. The solution? Sell Chris Smalling and Phil Jones, replacing them with De Vrij and whoever else is available.
 
SaboTaj said:
If there was a realistic chance of signing Alderwiereld, would anyone still prefer De Vrij?
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Id say sign them both and get rid of Jones and Smalling. J&S are decent defenders but they play like 18 year olds. They wont fare well the test of time.
 
Adnan said:
We should still sign De Vrij on a free. We need to improve our defenders from a technical stand point and a player like De Vrij will do that.
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Sanche7 said:
The idea is to have him as 3rd or 4th choice CB with Alderweireld and Bailly as the first choice with Jones, De Vrij, Lindelof and Axel as backup.This means that we can sell 2 /3 of our CBs and at the same time get a youngish ball playing CB for free.I don't want him as first choice, but as 3rd choice CB I think he would be good .
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devilish said:
Id say sign them both and get rid of Jones and Smalling. J&S are decent defenders but they play like 18 year olds. They wont fare well the test of time.
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Say if we sign Alderwiereld and De Vrij both and sell Smalling and Jones, we’re going to be left with Bailly, Alderwiereld, Rojo, Lindelof, De Vrij and Tuanzebe. 6 CBs, really? Seems like bit of an overkill, even if you take into consideration our recent history of injuries in that position. Unless of course, Tuanzebe is sent out on loan again or Rojo is shipped off as well - both of which I’d personally not be in favour of.
 
SaboTaj said:
Say if we sign Alderwiereld and De Vrij both and sell Smalling and Jones, we’re going to be left with Bailly, Alderwiereld, Rojo, Lindelof, De Vrij and Tuanzebe. 6 CBs, really? Seems like bit of an overkill, even if you take into consideration our recent history of injuries in that position. Unless of course, Tuanzebe is sent out on loan again or Rojo is shipped off as well - both of which I’d personally not be in favour of.
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Tuanzebe doesn't have a future here under the current regime. If he's smart, he should be looking to make a move where he'll get regular full time football.
 
SaboTaj said:
Say if we sign Alderwiereld and De Vrij both and sell Smalling and Jones, we’re going to be left with Bailly, Alderwiereld, Rojo, Lindelof, De Vrij and Tuanzebe. 6 CBs, really? Seems like bit of an overkill, even if you take into consideration our recent history of injuries in that position. Unless of course, Tuanzebe is sent out on loan again or Rojo is shipped off as well - both of which I’d personally not be in favour of.
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Rojo is on the way out too. He's hardly a Rio so if we can sell him and get someone better for less money then its worth it

I think it can work. Alderwiereld and De Vrij would be first teamers, Lindelof and Bailly would be covers. Tuanzebe can be sent on loan for the next 2 years just as Inter did with U18 Italian captain Bastoni. Its highly improbable that all 4 CBs would do well enough to keep their place so Tuanzebe could replace the one who fails.
 
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SaboTaj said:
Say if we sign Alderwiereld and De Vrij both and sell Smalling and Jones, we’re going to be left with Bailly, Alderwiereld, Rojo, Lindelof, De Vrij and Tuanzebe. 6 CBs, really? Seems like bit of an overkill, even if you take into consideration our recent history of injuries in that position. Unless of course, Tuanzebe is sent out on loan again or Rojo is shipped off as well - both of which I’d personally not be in favour of.
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If we buy at least 1 CB in the summer it might be for the best that Tuanzebe gets some game time away on loan. He's only 20 and getting consistent game time (maybe even remaining at a newly promotedVilla if that happens) would be better for him. As for Rojo if he cannot displace Jones or Smalling then I don't think his long term prospects are great.
 
In normal circumstances I wouldn't bother bringing in new CBs. Not that I trust our CBs but mainly because I think the real issues are in CM, FBs and maybe RW and we can't afford spending loads of money elsewhere. Smalling and Jones would do the job and I am pretty confident that Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe will step up in the future.

However, there's no denying that we lack leadership at the back so if we can add 2 CBs on a limited budget who could provide that for us then we should go for it. De Vrij and Alderwiereld are a clear upgrade on Rojo, Smalling and Jones. They can provide the leadership skills needed for Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe to develop at their own pace and would cost us peanuts which means that we'll probably be able to bring them in, let Smalling, Rojo and Jones leave and still end up with a surplus.
 
What's up with all the 'sell Smalling' nonsense? Makes no sense.

De Vrij obviously has a very similar profile to Lindelof. Lindelof has done nothing impressive so far, and Smalling is much better than him right now.

So if we actually want to improve our squad next season it would be a bit more sensible to keep Smalling. Offload Lindelof and replace him with De Vrij.

Also, Arsenal might not look like a direct rival this season, but Smalling is no Welbeck. He's actually a good defender and would be an improvement for them compared to the weirdo's they've had over the years other than Koscielny.
 
Skills said:
Tuanzebe doesn't have a future here under the current regime. If he's smart, he should be looking to make a move where he'll get regular full time football.
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Don’t agree with that one bit. I think he could easily become one of our best defenders in the next three seasons. And if given the right kind of exposure through a good PL loan, he would be seriously considered for the first team as early as 2019-20.
 
devilish said:
Rojo is on the way out too. He's hardly a Rio so if we can sell him and get someone better for less money then its worth it

I think it can work. Alderwiereld and De Vrij would be first teamers, Lindelof and Bailly would be covers. Tuanzebe can be sent on loan for the next 2 years just as Inter did with U18 Italian captain Bastoni. Its highly improbable that all 4 CBs would do well enough to keep their place so Tuanzebe could replace the one who fails.
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Alderwiereld and De Vrij would start? I’d have thought Alderwiereld with Bailly would’ve been the best pair.

I have high hopes from Tuanzebe. Hope he becomes a permanent fixture of our first team after a full season spent on loan at a competitive PL team.

GBBQ said:
If we buy at least 1 CB in the summer it might be for the best that Tuanzebe gets some game time away on loan. He's only 20 and getting consistent game time (maybe even remaining at a newly promotedVilla if that happens) would be better for him. As for Rojo if he cannot displace Jones or Smalling then I don't think his long term prospects are great.
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I personally would’ve liked to see a Rojo + Jones/Smalling partnership more often, but i understand why Rojo can be seen as dispensable especially with the prospect of adding both Alderwiereld and De Vrij, and the expected growth of Tuanzebe.
 
SaboTaj said:
Alderwiereld and De Vrij would start? I’d have thought Alderwiereld with Bailly would’ve been the best pair.

I have high hopes from Tuanzebe. Hope he becomes a permanent fixture of our first team after a full season spent on loan at a competitive PL team.

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I think that players should play according to form rather then anything else especially since none of these CBs are anywhere near to Rio/Vidic/Stam level of brilliance. So if Bailly is doing well, then let him play. Same with the rest.

I have high hopes on Tuanzebe too. Hence why I want him loaned as soon as possible. The CB position is an unforgiving role were there's little space for mistakes. The last thing we want is for him to

a- being given his shot way to early and he messes it up (ex Michael Keane)
b- have him played in wierd roles that contribute little to nothing to his development (OShea as LB, Jones in CM etc)
c- being forgotten in reserves

So my line of thought on this is a bit cynical but fair

a- send him on loan so he can get week in week out football in his natural role
b- Once he's ready then he should be recalled. Lets face it, we've been adding CBs for years and yet none of them had done enough to replace Vidic/Rio adequately. Out of our 4 CB left (Lindelof, De Vrij, Bailly, Alderwiereld) we'll be lucky if 2-3 of them do well enough to deserve to remain. So Tuanzebe will get his shot.
 
devilish said:
Rojo is on the way out too. He's hardly a Rio so if we can sell him and get someone better for less money then its worth it

I think it can work. Alderwiereld and De Vrij would be first teamers, Lindelof and Bailly would be covers. Tuanzebe can be sent on loan for the next 2 years just as Inter did with U18 Italian captain Bastoni. Its highly improbable that all 4 CBs would do well enough to keep their place so Tuanzebe could replace the one who fails.
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Bailly wont be covering anyone. He is first choice.
 
SaboTaj said:
Say if we sign Alderwiereld and De Vrij both and sell Smalling and Jones, we’re going to be left with Bailly, Alderwiereld, Rojo, Lindelof, De Vrij and Tuanzebe. 6 CBs, really? Seems like bit of an overkill, even if you take into consideration our recent history of injuries in that position. Unless of course, Tuanzebe is sent out on loan again or Rojo is shipped off as well - both of which I’d personally not be in favour of.
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I'd get rid of Rojo if I knew De Vrij and Alderweireld were coming..
 
He is not the world class defender we need. But if he is free, he would be a really good option to consider.
 
I wouldn't mind a defense of Bailly, Alderweireld, de Vrij, Lindelöff and Tuanzebe.
 
Sanche7 said:
The idea is to have him as 3rd or 4th choice CB with Alderweireld and Bailly as the first choice with Jones, De Vrij, Lindelof and Axel as backup.This means that we can sell 2 /3 of our CBs and at the same time get a youngish ball playing CB for free.I don't want him as first choice, but as 3rd choice CB I think he would be good .
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I dont think de Vrij would be coming to be 3rd or 4th choice CB when he is playing regularly anyway, and would be asking this if he ever was in negotiations. If he come he will be first choice with Bailly. If we go for Alderweirald as well Mourinho might be going to try 3 at the back.
 
Fer said:
In that case, do you think we should trust in Lindelof instead of signing De Vrij?
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DeVrij looks miles ahead in his development compared to lindelof at the moment

It would allow Jose to play 3 at the back, even better if we got Toby A from spurs too

I also wonder how Bailly would fare as a RB
 
Would love us to sign him and have our defensive options as:

Centre Backs
Bailly
De Vrij
Rojo
Lindelof
Jones

Full Backs
Valencia
Fosu Mensah
Shaw
Young

To Sell:
Blind
Smalling
Darmian

To go out on loan
Tuanzebe
 
golden_blunder said:
DeVrij looks miles ahead in his development compared to lindelof at the moment

It would allow Jose to play 3 at the back, even better if we got Toby A from spurs too

I also wonder how Bailly would fare as a RB
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I highly doubt Jose has any intention to play 3 at the back. If he did - he would have looked at how a ball playing defender like Blind bought the best out of smalling on his right hand side & likewise has the ability to get the best out of a CB like Jones or Rojo on the left at the same time.

De vrij & Alderweireld in my opinion are players that can play across a back 3 due to their passing ability; but are ball playing CB's that are individually built to play in a back 4.
I say this because when looking back at when chelsea & tottenham played back 3; the guy who made that back line work both proactively and re-actively were David luiz & Dier; whilst also being creative. They would bring the ball out to midfield both by dribbling, passing - likewise occasionally bypassing the midfield altogether or even as a the last line of defence as a sweeper.

I doubt this will change if de vrij or alderweireld are signed because they play on the defensive line much more. If Jose had even contemplated it I reckon he would have looked at the way blind brings the ball forward up to midfield; reads the game and has shown the ability to be at the right place at the right time.

Blind being at the right spot at the right time in my opinion got the best out of a slightly hurried approached defender like smalling (this style brings its own benefits to be fair); however him playing in the heart of a back 3 could also give a midfielder like Pogba the freedom he needs to push forward. Just as much as blind would provide support for defenders like jones & smalling playing across their channel; blind would be defensively supported by 2 CB's to play a little further up in midfield to support the likes of Pogba & Matic instead.

Dont think 3 at the back will happen any time soon.
 
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Freak said:
Would love us to sign him and have our defensive options as:

Centre Backs
Bailly
De Vrij
Rojo
Lindelof
Jones

Full Backs
Valencia
Fosu Mensah
Shaw
Young

To Sell:
Blind
Smalling
Darmian

To go out on loan
Tuanzebe
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I hope those aren't our only fullback options next season. Especially after getting rid of both Darmian/Blind.
 
wolvored said:
I dont think de Vrij would be coming to be 3rd or 4th choice CB when he is playing regularly anyway, and would be asking this if he ever was in negotiations. If he come he will be first choice with Bailly. If we go for Alderweirald as well Mourinho might be going to try 3 at the back.
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I don't think he is good enough to be a first choice CB in any top club or clubs aspiring to win the UCL.Being first choice for Lazio and first choice for United or Barca or Madrid is entirely different.

At the moment he is better than a 3rd choice but not good enough to be first or second.I can see him being 3rd choice which would mean he will play in about 30 games a season and more if Jose decides to go with 3 in the back.
 
Joining Inter Milan according to Igil Tare who's Lazio sporting director.
 
I don’t think he’s a United player. Or a Mourinho one.

He strikes me as one of those players LVG would have brought to United. And I’ve liked maybe 2 of his signings in total.

Somebody like Varane or Alderweireld would suit United and Mourinho more.
 
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