Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>kinell, striker, forward, attacker - what's the difference? They all play up front and generally are employed to score goals.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The difference is simply that people would not be so obsessed about him managing to score in the 2 minutes a game he gets. RVN and OGS are strikers, Eric and Teddy weren't. While scoring is essential with the former it wasn't a make or break matter with the latter (although very welcome! at very crucial points!).
I think it is about time we take the risk of playing him on the wing. I was away for the Sunderland game but, from what I read, Giggs just seems not up for it. I know it doesn't feel good as we know what Giggs can do and we are waiting for him to surprise us but, let's face it, his complacency is becoming a very real problem.
We absolutely need to give him sufficient time to play and gain confidence. What will happen if he keeps getting 2 mintues a game and all of a sudden we NEED him starting? Ooops!
Start Diego with Ruud and bring on Ole after 65 mins
- Thread starter Dans
- Start date
From what i've seen of Forlan he would be nothing more than a stop gap on the wing. I don't think he got the trick to be able to turn full backs inside out like giggs can
Isn't it depressing when we don't know what Forlan's best position is?
Or whether indeed he's a striker or not?
Not enough skills to challenge Giggs, not sharp enough to be a striker, not enough strength & size to be a targetman, not enough vision to be playing in the 'hole' behind the strikers - I'm begining to question whether lchk is right, afterall? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Or whether indeed he's a striker or not?
Not enough skills to challenge Giggs, not sharp enough to be a striker, not enough strength & size to be a targetman, not enough vision to be playing in the 'hole' behind the strikers - I'm begining to question whether lchk is right, afterall? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Neither Chadwick or Fortune are suited to take Giggs place.
Fortune has had the opportunity and although he has never let the side down, i just don't think he's got that something special.
Chadwick is naturally right footed and would struggle to beat defenders on the outside and make a telling cross. He needs more work to get him comfortable on his left foot, but if he can improve on that side he might be able to provide SAF with that option
Fortune has had the opportunity and although he has never let the side down, i just don't think he's got that something special.
Chadwick is naturally right footed and would struggle to beat defenders on the outside and make a telling cross. He needs more work to get him comfortable on his left foot, but if he can improve on that side he might be able to provide SAF with that option
According to optasoccer.com, Forlan's played 586 minutes to date. So that's 6 and a half games... But I suppose there's really no substitute for a full game/start to give him a chance.
Interestingly though, he knocked himself up an opta score of 886.
A quick comparison:
Gudjohnsen: 882
Ruud: 901
Owen: 936
Jimmy: 1034
Henry: 1186
So I guess when you're not looking at the goal tally, Forlan did all right. Although you have wonder what kind of mangled system they used so that little scouser score higher than Ruud.
We know the goals will come. I think some of you forget that this is Manchester United and Forlan would not be here unless he was going to be a success. Taibi excluded
But I suppose there's really no substitute for a full game/start to give him a chance.Interestingly though, he knocked himself up an opta score of 886.
A quick comparison:
Gudjohnsen: 882
Ruud: 901
Owen: 936
Jimmy: 1034
Henry: 1186
So I guess when you're not looking at the goal tally, Forlan did all right. Although you have wonder what kind of mangled system they used so that little scouser score higher than Ruud.
We know the goals will come. I think some of you forget that this is Manchester United and Forlan would not be here unless he was going to be a success. Taibi excluded
Taibi, & Porbosky, Bosnich, Cruyff....
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Personally, I'd start Forlan instead of Giggs.
Ruud and Ole aren't firing on all cylinders either, so if you're saying Diego needs games, that must also apply to them - that was Ole's first start at the weekend.
It might do Giggsy some good to know he isn't irreplaceable.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Spot on,my thoughts exactly
kkcbl, I stand by my understanding that Forlan was signed to be Di Canio's understudy for a link-up role. That's what he is most suited to develop into (develop into the hole <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> ).
Unfortunately it didn't work out that way and a long term signing is faced with delivering immediate impact at a different role (can't just throw him into the hole as a rough diamond, won't work).
Unfortunately it didn't work out that way and a long term signing is faced with delivering immediate impact at a different role (can't just throw him into the hole as a rough diamond, won't work).
Originally posted by Raoul:
<strong>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> Panic Buyer strikes again.
How about Fergie doesn't start Diego because he's got Ruud and Ole infront of him in the pecking order.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you looking for a spat with me?
That's an obvious observation but now that RVN has lost a bit of form, it'll be a good time for him to be dropped for a few games and Forlan to step in and make his mark.
Doubt we'll see that happen
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>
I tried that one earlier - it didn't wash with our lchk. He's sure Fergie doesn't trust Diego. No doubt we'll be selling him on for a couple of mil in the next couple of months.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did I say I was sure?
It's just an opinion
Originally posted by kkcbl:
<strong>Isn't it depressing when we don't know what Forlan's best position is?
Or whether indeed he's a striker or not?
Not enough skills to challenge Giggs, not sharp enough to be a striker, not enough strength & size to be a targetman, not enough vision to be playing in the 'hole' behind the strikers - I'm begining to question whether lchk is right, afterall?
We shall see come end of the season, shall we?
Right now, nobody including SAF (I suspect) knows what to do with Forlan.
Of course the blinkered ones here will insist we got ourselves a bargain <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>
I disagree, we absolutely need to win this game and we've had a tough time against them lately.
Drop RVN and all you will get is people questioning that from the outset, the same as when he was dropped against the Arse. Not the best way to ease him into the team either.
Ichk, you go from saying a player who gets 2 minutes a game stinks, can't score and is not trusted by SAF to playing him in front of Ruud. Playing him ahead of OGS could work (and Ole would be rightly pissed off) as people would be fairly happy to see him as our alternative to change the game after all. Playing him ahead of Giggs would be the way to go IMO.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I forgot to put a winkie
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>
I don't think anyone would say that. He hasn't had enough time to prove to be a bargain or a feckup, as easy as that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And yet some of us here claim that we will see a cartload of goals from him - as soon as the first one goes in of course
Originally posted by antohan:
<strong>kkcbl, I stand by my understanding that Forlan was signed to be Di Canio's understudy for a link-up role. That's what he is most suited to develop into (develop into the hole <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> ).
Unfortunately it didn't work out that way and a long term signing is faced with delivering immediate impact at a different role (can't just throw him into the hole as a rough diamond, won't work).</strong><hr></blockquote>
In all seriousness (I was having a bit of fun with my other postings in this thread
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>In all seriousness (I was having a bit of fun with my other postings in this thread
Or play him on the wing to get started
On the cartload of goals I agree it is over-optimistic. You see, I disagree with knocking him when he has hardly had a fair run but I also disagree with overshooting expectations as a reaction. There are no grounds for either perspective.
I agree with antohan on this.
Btw, for those who expect cartloads of goals, let me remind you the reason Forlan, at a relatively old age of 22 b4 his 1st Uruguayan cap, was not called to his National squad earlier was because the National coach felt he needed too many chances b4 scoring ala Andrew Cole!
Is Fergie a masochist by nature?
Or does United have the same script writers as WWE? ( ex-WWF for the uninitiated. )
Btw, for those who expect cartloads of goals, let me remind you the reason Forlan, at a relatively old age of 22 b4 his 1st Uruguayan cap, was not called to his National squad earlier was because the National coach felt he needed too many chances b4 scoring ala Andrew Cole!
Is Fergie a masochist by nature?
Or does United have the same script writers as WWE?
( ex-WWF for the uninitiated. )Psychologically though, what effect would it have on OGS to revert to being the eternal substitute.
Apart from the added pressure of being expected to work miracles, surely some part of his brain would not want to score. He hates the super-sub tag - if he's condemned to that role, it will affect him mentally, and scoring a goal as a sub will only increase the use of the label.
Don't say that he's a professional and all that crap, because he's on record as saying how depressed he was in 1999/2000.
Apart from the added pressure of being expected to work miracles, surely some part of his brain would not want to score. He hates the super-sub tag - if he's condemned to that role, it will affect him mentally, and scoring a goal as a sub will only increase the use of the label.
Don't say that he's a professional and all that crap, because he's on record as saying how depressed he was in 1999/2000.
Those saying Ruud is off form I can't agree with at all. He's doing well enough. I think he looks rather than is lethargic. I'll bet he nicks two tonight. The idea of playing Forlan on the left wing is a non starter for me. He's not a winger and never will be. He's a busy player who needs a central role but one which allows him perhaps a bit more freedom to roam the wings to if necessary, but I don't think it will do him any good to stick him out on the left. Perhaps on the right, perhaps.
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
Are you looking for a spat with me?
That's an obvious observation but now that RVN has lost a bit of form, it'll be a good time for him to be dropped for a few games and Forlan to step in and make his mark.
Doubt we'll see that happen</strong><hr></blockquote>
He's playing well imo. You don't jerk your best striker off the pitch because he doesn't match your preconcieved idea of what his goal tally should be after 3 or 4 games. Furthermore, your logic of benching RVN in favour of Forlan makes absolutely no sense since Diego hasn't scored either.
<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
Diego got 12 minutes last night, 10 more than usual then. At this rate he'll get a full game by April.
Diego gets a start tonight in the reserves. As does Ricardo and Gary Nev.
As the other member of the "Ole is the new Denis" fan club, I nevertheless think this is a great topic and agree that now is the time to give Diego his chance...there's no point in getting through to the critical games at the end of the season and still not knowing if Forlan can deliver the goods...best he has his chance now.
Ole is one of a kind in being able to come on and pick up the pace of the game immediately. For Diego these run-outs of less than 15 minutes are not enabling him to adjust to the premiership, and probably doing more harm than good in terms of his confidence. Lets see him start next week. Great suggestion.
Ole is one of a kind in being able to come on and pick up the pace of the game immediately. For Diego these run-outs of less than 15 minutes are not enabling him to adjust to the premiership, and probably doing more harm than good in terms of his confidence. Lets see him start next week. Great suggestion.
christiepark_boy,
Forlans, needs time, although he also need starts, question is, can we afford to risk starting with him? - If Im honest I think we are well thin up front, Van speaks for himself and OGS is class as ever, 100 goals proves the point, fact is though we should of bought another out-and-out striker this season, a proven one, why we did not sort out Crespo, considering lazio's position is beyond me! - had the market not been so flat, Im pretty sure we would of flogged Veron, and bought someone of Crespo's calibre, although we Im sure we could of done a striaght swap for Crespo, as Lazio would of been up for it, or we could of sorted out the balance from Stam...............as we all know........
Forlan HAS to be given a chance at some stage. i personally can't wait to see him playing at his full capacity for us. i know are never any "easy games" for us what with teams stepping up the performances whenever we come to town, but give him some starts against "lesser" opposition (if there is such a thing these days).