Stars and Reserves Draft R1: Moby vs MJJ - Finished 15:16

[Ecstatic]

Will be interesting to know how Bergmark fits into this setup @MJJ . Pirlo in that diamond/xmas at his peak had the luxury of having the likes of Cafu and Zambrotta for club/country. Brilliant athletic presence. Similarly the likes of Serginho and Grosso on the other side were highly marauding.

Would like to know more about Samson and Bergmark's ability to fit into the setup and how well they fare against those qualities.

Good question about their offensive contribution because if Pirlo dicates the game from lower positions, then ideally great offensive FB would be the welcome to
1) exploit the passing skills
2) cover M'bappé

I understand your argument, of course Schuster as a RCM in a 3 man midfield is excellent as I've agreed in the OP. However, I don't think I am trying to compete with Schuster's RCM role here so the discussion should be about what Schuster brings as the AM in that team.

From what I have usually read, watched and observed from various discussions about him, during his peak years at Barcelona, when he was talked about as one of the best players in Europe/world, a massive factor for that appreciation came from his free flowing stupendous creative game. It is not a coincidence that his comparisons were made with the likes of Zico and Platini as the premier attacking playmakers of the era.

It should be noted that the #10/AM role has changed from one generation to the other. In the 80s, the AMs were far different from what you would see in the 00s for example, where they had complete midfield responsibilities along with their forward game and ability on the ball. All of Zico, Platini, Gullit, Schuster, etc share that completeness in their game and were well responsible of putting in good shifts. That is precisely what is expected from Schuster here, and that doesn't take him completely away from the role that he's usually used in. However, what it does is highlight his primary strength, that is on the ball at the absolute heart of the game.

Apart from that there are two key factors that made my decision final: 1) His goalscoring exploits which I have no intention of ignoring. 1 in 2 in his first 2 seasons in the 80s and then a solid 1 in 3 for the next 3. 2) Pirlo's position in the opposition would dictate that having someone who would directly confront him when he's on the ball and has the tactical awareness, excellent workrate, tenacity and mental toughness to stay in his face. Having an opponent like that would put a huge dent in his gameplan. I respect Pirlo a lot, but that is a tactic that would be close to a kryponite and he wouldn't find the desired space to run the game.

Good post

I'm not going to pretend that Hernandez will shut down Mbappe 1v1. Mbappe is obviously an young prodigy, I had him in the modern draft and rate him highly. It won't exactly be a mismatch either as Hernandez was one of the highlights of the world cup himself and both have similar bodies of work in terms of longevity.

To add to that, with Lerby on that side in assistance and Rivelino ahead of them, who often dropped deep in the 1970 performances as well either to playmake from deep, keep possession or provide that extra body in defense and usually boasts of excellent work ethic himself, we aren't porous on that side.

Lastly, with the game plan of stifling the service from the source being Pirlo, the forward runs of those forwards will be less effective.

Conversely, I'd like to know how much Mbappe will help out Bergmark on the other side when Rivelino isolates him with Hernandez/Lerby providing the overlapping option/support option.

M'bappé would require a collective management and with Lerby and Fernandez you have some tools

I don't think it's a true assessment to say Hernandez is similar to Petrescu in getting up and down the flank. Petrescu is a legitimate attacking threat, Hernandez is a centre back playing out of position. That was a feature of the France team. Like Germany 4 years earlier, they played 4 centre backs.

It's true that Hernandez is a not a typical offensive full-back, he can go high and be decent but nobody would expect him to be game changer.

On the other hand, we can't say he's out of position: just a defensive aggresive full back with a strong track record with France (he played an unfit Messi but it's Messi) and Atletico Madrid. And when you watch the stats of Atletico Madrid having the best defence of La Liga atm, can expect him to have played a role in this regard.

On @MJJ 's side with Mbappe he has a pretty feasible route to goal. Has concealed his youth player pretty well and Skriniar has pretty good protection. However I don't think Pirlo will grab the control of the game here. Moby's just too good in the middle of the park and would most likely dominate the game, starving the opposition of possession.

Don’t know if it’s crazy or not, but I can see Mbappe winning this game for MJJ. He’s primed to be the most effective player on the pitch.

Everything is possible with Kilian

I wouldn't compare that Spain team to my midfield unit really. A really different style of team, for one they didn't press similar to Pep's Barca, for two the likes of Xavi were past their peak and that intensity had lowered and for three, all of Schuster, Lerby and Essien are completely different kind of midfielders who are far more combative in terms of raw stamina, power, aggressiveness, strong tackling and out and out defensive nous in case of Lerby and Essien particularly. They won't be closing down the space and cutting down the passing options majority of the times, but rather closing down their counterparts and going and getting stuck in. It's something all 3 can be relied upon for 90 minutes, not to mention Rivelino in constant support.

Between Pirlo, Pogba and Kante, there is only one midfielder in Kante who offers any kind of similar combativeness that is required to face a midfield similar to mine, which is a massive mountain to climb for the opposition. Neither Pogba, nor Pirlo would enjoy the amount of harassing they will receive from the opposition, in case of Pogba these instances are the ones where we have seen him go awol and have the game pass him by. For all his exploits, that has been a recurring disappointment on his part in the bigger games and one where he is unable to cope against a lung bursting all action midfielder constantly picking his pocket. He is often found guilty of leaving his runner and not able to track him back completely, or close down the passing lanes. Having Kante alone as the only hard-working midfielder cannot stand against a midfield of Schuster, Lerby and Essien, simple as that.

I think Pirlo should'nt be underrated defensively. At his prime, he was great: suffice to look at the video pirlo vs juventus champions final 2005 IIRC

Pogba is another story: a kind of playmaking box-to-box who brings something different

Essien was also a box to box not a sitting midfielder, schuster is an AM he will help but he wont be witj pirlo all the time. That leaves me with an extra man in midfield, if schuster follows or focuses on pirlo too much it leaves you short in attack where your striker is already doing nothing against vierchowod.

Essien was really complete, organizing B2B, sitting midfielder if requires (see Lyon in the early 2000s even if M. Diarra was the #6)

 

[Moby]

I think Pirlo should'nt be underrated defensively. At his prime, he was great: suffice to look at the video pirlo vs juventus champions final 2005 IIRC

Not underestimating of course but he's facing a top quality attacking/advanced midfielder who was lighting up La Liga and Europe back in the 80s and being compared to Zico, Platini, Maradona etc. It's a mammoth task for even the greatest DMs to hold him from taking the game by the scruff of it's neck, and Pirlo wouldn't enjoy that job.

 

[MJJ]

Not underestimating of course but he's facing a top quality attacking/advanced midfielder who was lighting up La Liga and Europe back in the 80s and being compared to Zico, Platini, Maradona etc. It's a mammoth task for even the greatest DMs to hold him from taking the game by the scruff of it's neck, and Pirlo wouldn't enjoy that job.

Him and gattuso managed to do alright against zidane in his 2006 world cup form, was even the motm in the final.

 

[Enigma_87]

Great game this. Tough luck @Moby you had a fantastic team.

Congrats @MJJ !

 

[Moby]

Congrats @MJJ good luck for the next round.

 

[Moby]

Great game this. Tough luck @Moby you had a fantastic team.

Congrats @MJJ !

Thanks Enigma!

 

[MJJ]

Congrats @MJJ good luck for the next round.

Great game this. Tough luck @Moby you had a fantastic team.

Congrats @MJJ !

Thanks guys.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

syrianscholes, RedTiger & Zlatattack

 

[harms]

4 votes against in 2 minutes with no comments oh well.

Sajeev
KM
Roonster
Maradona10

syrianscholes, RedTiger & Zlatattack

What's that, another nationality conspiracy?

 

[antohan]

I disagree with the notion that playing Schuster as a number 10 is getting the best of him, frankly. Often players preferred a more central position to others, but I don't think that Schuster's peak was as a real 10. I'd love to hear what another Schuster lover @Joga Bonito thinks about that. Perhaps @antohan @Balu as well, if they have anything to say on the matter, it's definitely an interesting topic.

I'd call him an 8 more than a 10, albeit a more advanced one (a 9 if you used the 9.5 as an analogy). He was too complete and versatile a player, capable of unfluencing a game under different tactics in different phases of play. When we say 10 we are rarely talking about that except with ADS and (less so) Platini.

That said, he would shine in this team as Rivelino would be the natural 10 in it. That trio is quite tasty with Lerby bombing forward on the left. I would like to see a top tier attacking left back and they would work all the channels brilliantly.

 

[MJJ]

What's that, another nationality conspiracy?

Roonster doesn't belong in the group.

 

[antohan]

I would have kante and essien both over lerby and kante over essien.

Taking it to an extreme, it's like saying you'd take Makelele over Gerrard. Lerby is far and away the better footballer, I'd never take Essien ahead of him and you would take Kante ahead as a specialist (but then, you would still need someone like Lerby in that midfield).

 

[MJJ]

Taking it to an extreme, it's like saying you'd take Makelele over Gerrard. Lerby is far and away the better footballer, I'd never take Essien ahead of him and you would take Kante ahead as a specialist (but then, you would still need someone like Lerby in that midfield).

In my midfield? I would only have davids, keane or tardelli ahead of kante.

 

[antohan]

Only just looked at who played for who and who won. Surprised at the outcome.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Taking it to an extreme, it's like saying you'd take Makelele over Gerrard. Lerby is far and away the better footballer, I'd never take Essien ahead of him and you would take Kante ahead as a specialist (but then, you would still need someone like Lerby in that midfield).

Agreed.

 

[antohan]

In my midfield? I would only have davids, keane or tardelli ahead of kante.

Well, Lerby obviously wouldn't work with Pogba and Pirlo. That's precisely the specialist scenario I mention and in Pogba you have the guy adding the other attributes.