I am reducing him after everybody's complainsI increased his auction value to 80m, that should count for something
Stars and Reserves Draft R1: Moby vs MJJ - Finished 15:16
- Thread starter Enigma_87
- Start date
I wasn't complaining, just stated what I consider his best position was. You have 2 players who can may drift in (Rivelino tends to operate widish centre rather than a pure winger and Jairzinho who was a more wide forward too) and flexibility of Schuster to operate in deeper forms a perfect foil than any other in the hole #10. When they move wide, Schuster moves up and when they drift in he drops deeper and still dictates the play. I think the dynamics here are spot on. He's better fit to your supporting cast than many other in the hole #10s imo.
Big fan of @Moby 's front 6 to be honest.I'm not sure that the #10 spot in 4-2-3-1 is ideal for Schuster. It's similar to Pogba's situation today — he needs a freedom and space to drop deeper, and he has a skillset to contribute immensely in goalscoring department even from that position. This with Schuster in a free role as a RCM/RAM would've been better in my book.
Lerby - Schuster
Essien**preferably a full-time DM in that case.
He still seems like a likely match winner though.
Pirlo's set up seems ideal on the other hand, but he won't have it easy against Moby's midfield — Lerby and Essien especially are a scary opposition. The thought of Rooney/Boniek/Mbappe on the receiving end of Pirlo/Pogba passes
You can easily depict it as a 4-3-3 with Lerby holding and moving Essien LCM in a box to box role, and Schuster RCM.
Schuster as a #10 would be a tough sell for me. Not the ideal position perhaps for him, as I'd rather have him as either RCM or DLP. Still he has the goals in him to back him up in that position, but would certainly love more of a 4-3-3 here.
Think Lerby as DM would be a pretty nice fit tho? Sure he marched forward but in such a dynamic midfield trio would be a pretty good fit, even if he's the one labored with more defensive functions.
On @MJJ 's side with Mbappe he has a pretty feasible route to goal. Has concealed his youth player pretty well and Skriniar has pretty good protection. However I don't think Pirlo will grab the control of the game here. Moby's just too good in the middle of the park and would most likely dominate the game, starving the opposition of possession.
Seems like a bit of a waste, considering how good he was at supporting left wing — defensively as well as offensively. But yeah, he can do it.
I'd agree with that myself and think he's more suited to a midfield role than a more conventional and a somewhat less dynamic #10 role. That being said I do see him as more of an advanced midfielder in a midfield trio as opposed to a #10 here.
Precisely what he is.
Yeah, I think I've reacted more at @Don Alfredo's comment rather than at the OP
Plus I see the reasoning behind putting him forward on Pirlo.This is close IMO. If Moby had a better striker I think he'd win this but Rossi was never that prolific. This leaves the goals to Jairzinho and Schuster. Jairzinho could well have a good game but Mbappe is likely to have a better one against Hernandez. If MJJ can keep the ball long enough I think he could score a few, the question is whether Lerby, Essien and Schuster can keep it from them.
Don’t know if it’s crazy or not, but I can see Mbappe winning this game for MJJ. He’s primed to be the most effective player on the pitch.
Finally voted Moby, though MJJ edges this...if not for Skriniar. He seems competent, but ...
Who are the top CFs he's faced in Serie A over past 2 years?
He only has 6 Europe appearances (1 as RB and 5 as CB) with no clean sheets and 3 yellow cards.
Very dicey to factor him against elite opponents he's facing in this match.
Who are the top CFs he's faced in Serie A over past 2 years?
He only has 6 Europe appearances (1 as RB and 5 as CB) with no clean sheets and 3 yellow cards.
Very dicey to factor him against elite opponents he's facing in this match.
Who were the top Cfs vierchowod partner faced when he shut out rossi 9 times in a row?
I feel like this match comes down to how much I believe Pirlo can dictate the match. If Pirlo can dictate the tempo then I think MJJ wins. If Moby can disrupt Pirlo enough then he wins.
@Moby do you have any videos of how Schuster will play off the ball? @MJJ any clips of Pirlo against a similarly 'all-action' type midfield as Moby's?
@Moby do you have any videos of how Schuster will play off the ball? @MJJ any clips of Pirlo against a similarly 'all-action' type midfield as Moby's?
Watch pirlo against spain in 2012, i posted a clip earlier.
Cesare Prandelli came out with a 3-5-2 formation for the Azzurri. Daniele De Rossi dropped into the centre-back role and Emanuele Giaccherini started wide left in the five-man midfield, making his first appearance with the national team. Spain's starting XI was absent a true striker for the first time in their European Championship history.
The man of match, Andrea Pirlo, was behind almost every sublime ball dropped into Spain's defensive third. In the first half, Pirlo masterfully stroked balls out to Italy's wings and up to the dynamic Antonio Cassano. He rarely needed more than a second on the ball to pick out a spot and loft it forward.
Pirlo's passes were ideally designed to lead a teammate into available patches of green space. In contrast to Xavi, Spain's midfield workhorse, Pirlo opted for immediate, devastating exploitations of a defense. He rarely looked for anything but forward opportunities.
Not surprisingly, he was central to the Italian goal in the 61st minute. Pirlo juked, then burst away from Sergio Busquets just inside the halfway line before slotting a perfectly weighted left-footed pass into the path of Antonio Di Natale. Udinese's 23-goal man made no mistake, opening up his body to beat Iker Casillas over his waving left arm inside the far post.
Was also man of the match here with only gattuso for company.
I wouldn't compare that Spain team to my midfield unit really. A really different style of team, for one they didn't press similar to Pep's Barca, for two the likes of Xavi were past their peak and that intensity had lowered and for three, all of Schuster, Lerby and Essien are completely different kind of midfielders who are far more combative in terms of raw stamina, power, aggressiveness, strong tackling and out and out defensive nous in case of Lerby and Essien particularly. They won't be closing down the space and cutting down the passing options majority of the times, but rather closing down their counterparts and going and getting stuck in. It's something all 3 can be relied upon for 90 minutes, not to mention Rivelino in constant support.
Between Pirlo, Pogba and Kante, there is only one midfielder in Kante who offers any kind of similar combativeness that is required to face a midfield similar to mine, which is a massive mountain to climb for the opposition. Neither Pogba, nor Pirlo would enjoy the amount of harassing they will receive from the opposition, in case of Pogba these instances are the ones where we have seen him go awol and have the game pass him by. For all his exploits, that has been a recurring disappointment on his part in the bigger games and one where he is unable to cope against a lung bursting all action midfielder constantly picking his pocket. He is often found guilty of leaving his runner and not able to track him back completely, or close down the passing lanes. Having Kante alone as the only hard-working midfielder cannot stand against a midfield of Schuster, Lerby and Essien, simple as that.
Between Pirlo, Pogba and Kante, there is only one midfielder in Kante who offers any kind of similar combativeness that is required to face a midfield similar to mine, which is a massive mountain to climb for the opposition. Neither Pogba, nor Pirlo would enjoy the amount of harassing they will receive from the opposition, in case of Pogba these instances are the ones where we have seen him go awol and have the game pass him by. For all his exploits, that has been a recurring disappointment on his part in the bigger games and one where he is unable to cope against a lung bursting all action midfielder constantly picking his pocket. He is often found guilty of leaving his runner and not able to track him back completely, or close down the passing lanes. Having Kante alone as the only hard-working midfielder cannot stand against a midfield of Schuster, Lerby and Essien, simple as that.
In 2012 they were pass their peak? That was their ascendancy, he also was man of the match against vieira, makelele and zidane with gattuso for company.
We have all seen pogba play, he will get involved in the midfield battle. That would be enough against your midfield as kante has the work rate of two men. End of the day it is still 3 vs 2 mostly depending on how often schuster drop back.
Pogba going missing has more to do with Mourinho, with pirlo and vidal he became the most expensive player in the world. You dont become that if you go missing.
I wouldn't consider Zidane as hard-working in the defensive phase as Schuster for starters, especially during the last tournament of his career where he was well past his athletic peak. Same with Makelele, who was in his 30s in that tournament. Pirlo had 3 midfielders to provide the legs for him in that game in Gattuso, Perrota and Cameronesi, all of whom worked their socks off in a midfield four and allowed Pirlo the space. Pirlo was hardly special in the final, his best game was against Germany in the semi final and the final was largely drab, Pirlo didn't create a ton of chances for Italy in that game.
That isn't similar to having three proper two-way players in Schuster, Lerby and Essien all of whom are widely known for being out and out midfield generals and ones who would be tasked with dominating the opposition with 'softer' players around them, let alone all three of them in the same company. And again, not to forget Rivelino who was a tough nut to crack off the ball and a vital part of the Brazil team in terms of providing a lot of graft and steel to their midfield battles, getting the ball back in the deep and constructing moves.
All in all, both in terms of legs and in terms of numbers, the Pirlo-led midfield is bound to struggle to keep up with the opposition for 90 minutes and that is when they have the ball. Completely another story when we get the ball and maraud in numbers, and how much resistance would Pogba and Pirlo provide to the likes of Schuster and Lerby driving forward.
Pogba? A lot. The man plays a box to box to a very high level and is a better midfielder than lerby to boot
So both lerby and schuster are driving forward, essien is another box to box all that means to me is that the game will be played in transition and that suits my side better.
You are also relying on jairzinho, rivilino and schuster for goals, not the most prolific trio.
Its funny how 30 is a past it date now
33. I wouldn't compare that version of Makelele to the peak version of Essien who was a proper force of nature especially physically.Its funny how 30 is a past it date now
And even that midfield held the fort pretty well against the Pirlo midfield (which had more bodies doing the dirty work than in this game) and the French goal was hardly exposed much in that game. If anything, France came closest to winning the game with that Zidane header from Sagnol's cross, if not for a GOAT level save from Buffon. Weird game to pick out to highlight the midfield performance.
Essien was also a box to box not a sitting midfielder, schuster is an AM he will help but he wont be witj pirlo all the time. That leaves me with an extra man in midfield, if schuster follows or focuses on pirlo too much it leaves you short in attack where your striker is already doing nothing against vierchowod.
Schuster won't be following Pirlo when we have the ball, would be the other way around and I don't see the Italian being able to keep up with the prime version of young Schuster, one who outshone Maradona with the two playing together, and was the absolute talisman for that team. In that duel, Schuster is far better placed to curb Pirlo's influence than the other way around.
You haven't really laid down any plan to stop my attacking midfielders when we attack. With Lerby and Essien having the attention of Pogba and Kante, I don't see that trio facing much resistance if any. Mbappe's lack of tracking back will brutally expose Bergmark against Rivelino, which is a massive win in my favour. Rivelino's class in dribbling (man invented the elastico), technical fluidity, defense splitting balls and that atomic shot will be a massive weapon from that side with little if any strategy to stop that.
The likes of peak Schuster, Rivelino and Jairzinho running at players who either aren't primarily known for their defensive work (Pirlo) or are likely to come out as second best (Bergmark and Samson) is the area that will win me the game.
:Lol: I like how rivelino against bergmark is a massive win, a footballer who was voted the best in the world but mbappe against hernandez, its what sixteen caps for France? Is less of a factor.
There is no denying that both sides will have chances, the difference is i have the leading man united goal scorer up front who is going to torment your defenders and defend from the front whereas you have a one in nine goal scorer up front who is going to waste those chances.
A good striker makes or breaks an attack and in this case, he is going to lose you the match.
I like how Schuster is in two places as well so when he has the ball and he loses it, and pirlo takes it what do you think is going to happen?
Pirlo glides pasts one, looks up sees pogba, boniek, mbappe and rooney. Passes to pogba, who does a one two with mbappe and slips it to rooney to score. Schuster meanwhile looks bemused as to how his manager expects him to teleport across the pitch.
I believe i have upgraded on this, no? Rooney , boniek and mbappe against a side with two wing backs and pirlo passing? Ooof
4 votes against in 2 minutes with no comments oh well.
Sajeev
KM
Roonster
Maradona10
oh well.Sajeev
KM
Roonster
Maradona10
It's not like I hate Moby's team, but I like my boy MJJ.
4 votes against in 2 minutes with no comments
Sajeev
KM
Roonster
Maradona10
Actually I wanted to vote for your team and by mistake voted for Moby. Changed mine.
That is a bit unfair considering the two players in question played in a similar 3 man midfield in the real world for Juve quite successfully.
He has more flair, you have more steel but neither outweights the other to a significant extent IMO
Not sure what any of that meant, anyways like the midfield, it's sort of perfect midfield. Proper regista (one of the best in last 20-30 years), one of the best ball winners and Pogba who is very good in final third
Yeah and two of them have shone together in the past two, plus i think the attacking trio suits the midfield perfectly.
To add to that, Pirlo also played superbly with Gattuso, where I think Kante can do similar job. I think vs Moby's team, your midfield can control the game much better.
So we aren't allowed to vote without commenting now? I usually vote without comments, as I don't want to be dragged into unnecessary discussions especially with my unconventional views on players4 votes against in 2 minutes with no comments
Sajeev
KM
Roonster
Maradona10
Yeah that was the logic behind picking kante as he is an upgrade on gattuso.
You are free to do what you want and i am free to laugh at what i want.
This should be a clear landslide for team MJJ.