Television Star Trek

Raoul said:
This is probably because the audience haven't really gotten much of a chance to connect with the individual crew members (other than the Rafi scenes in the desert which were terrible imo)

The Elnor character on the other hand looks very promising

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The lack of connection I want to put down to some, to be kind, mediocre writing. The dialogue is not good, some of that we can hopefully put down to the writers getting a feel for the characters and how they play off each other, and it should improve as we head on. It doesn't really feel like Trek, not necessarily a bad thing, genre TV has evolved, vulgarity, more overt sexuality and violence is the thing now, but for someone who has watched all the classic treks it feels a little off.

I hesitate to make this extra point but in that episode some of the social commentary was a little too obvious. I don't mind Sci-Fi shows exploring those themes, it is a great quality of the genre, but if the writing is poor it can take me out of the show.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I could never handle Kim or Neelix.
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Kim was a bit of a dullard but Neelix has his moments.

Voyager also had creative freedom to introduce new alien species in the Delta Quadrant which I thought they did really well. There’s some really good Hirogen & Species 8472 episodes.

One of my favourite episodes is the one where Voyager gets stuck in orbit around a planet where time is moving faster than everywhere else. The Workforce two parter is pretty good as well. There’s several episodes that I find very watchable.
 
Klopper76 said:
Kim was a bit of a dullard but Neelix has his moments.

Voyager also had creative freedom to introduce new alien species in the Delta Quadrant which I thought they did really well. There’s some really good Hirogen & Species 8472 episodes.

One of my favourite episodes is the one where Voyager gets stuck in orbit around a planet where time is moving faster than everywhere else. The Workforce two parter is pretty good as well. There’s several episodes that I find very watchable.
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My favourite was the where the psycho maci member saved the crew by murdering intruders. Great filler episode.
 
RedSky said:
Deep Space Nine had the best characters personally. The only character that was a bit meh was Doctor Bashir.
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They evolved him very well (he started off obnoxious), I always thought Jadzia didn't really make much sense. But the rest of them are great. Kira, Odo, Garak, Sisko, Quark, Rom, Nog, and Sisko and Dukat (till the last season), all have great arcs. Worf and o'Brien too, a real step above their TNG selves.

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Haven't seen the series, even 1 ep, but what a nice review, even more than that, a great comparison to old Trek and what made it special and different from every other sci-fi series (and seemingly what has been lost now).
 
berbatrick said:
They evolved him very well (he started off obnoxious), I always thought Jadzia didn't really make much sense. But the rest of them are great. Kira, Odo, Garak, Sisko, Quark, Rom, Nog, and Sisko and Dukat (till the last season), all have great arcs. Worf and o'Brien too, a real step above their TNG selves.

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Haven't seen the series, even 1 ep, but what a nice review, even more than that, a great comparison to old Trek and what made it special and different from every other sci-fi series (and seemingly what has been lost now).
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I agreed with a lot of the opinions expressed in the above video but continue to struggle to understand peoples love for Picards two Romulan friends. They barely have a personality between them and the idea that two Tal Shiar agents would be content to retire in the country, caring for an old human, is surely as disconnected from Old Trek as anything else we have seen.
 
My favourite part of Picard is that the writers don't allow themselves to be shackled by canon. The nostalgia porn is still there to entice the old guard, but thankfully doesn't impinge on the storytelling too much.

60's and 90's sci fi got a lot wrong about humanity and technology. The current generation of Star Trek shows presents a necessary realignment to a more realistic paradigm.
 
Dante said:
My favourite part of Picard is that the writers don't allow themselves to be shackled by canon. The nostalgia porn is still there to entice the old guard, but thankfully doesn't impinge on the storytelling too much.

60's and 90's sci fi got a lot wrong about humanity and technology. The current generation of Star Trek shows presents a necessary realignment to a more realistic paradigm.
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One of the current generation of Star Trek shows does, yes.
 
Dante said:
My favourite part of Picard is that the writers don't allow themselves to be shackled by canon. The nostalgia porn is still there to entice the old guard, but thankfully doesn't impinge on the storytelling too much.

60's and 90's sci fi got a lot wrong about humanity and technology. The current generation of Star Trek shows presents a necessary realignment to a more realistic paradigm.
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Oh they certainly haven't allowed themselves to be shackled by cannon! But I guess on some level they have managed to produce "nostalgia porn", a sort of drinking game of sorts, using trek references and easter eggs, rather than showing any affinity for what Trek actually was.

Also, I disagree that a realignment was in anyway necessary. I have no issue with Star Trek evolving to reflect changes in television but to ignore the spirit and identity of the franchise is an artistic betrayal of peoples work and amounts to nothing more than cynical exploitation of a name.

Trek writers were always able to tell compelling stories whilst respecting the core spirit of the show and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that there's any less of an appetite from audiences today for a more optimistic vision of our future than the depressing hellscape offered by everything else.

Regardless, Discovery and Picards greatest sin is the fact they are simply not very good.
 
It is worse than Discovery.

Yes, it is subverting expectations through stepping away from the ST ideal of the future Human Race, so now we get graphic violence, swearing, bleak dystopian futures and all the usual modern Sci Fi Tropes, but unfortunately the writing is poor, the characters are not engaging, and the overarching plot-line is pretty shit.

It feels like second rate SF using the the Star Trek name to gain attention the quality of the work does not deserve.
 
The end of that episode felt a bit... meh. All very dramatic with over acting and bad music, not a fan. Happened too early in the show for us to feel anything frankly.
 
i was skipping around the newest RLM review and they showed a quote from seven of nine, saying dismissively: "picard still thinks there's room for mercy in this galaxy." have these writers watched any trek at all?
voyager took 3 full seasons making her go from a borg who wanted to kill if it saved her a minute, to what garak would call an indoctrinated federation citizen.
 
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I really want to like this, but the writing is just so ridiculously poor and obvious, they've also made Picard like a bumbling old baby who needs constant attention and looking after. Also is Jerri Ryan in it permanently? Even though they seem to have butchered her character, it's still the biggest draw

But by far the worst thing is "JL". In fact the whole Rafi character and her endless stroppy teen into flip flop routine was boring enough the first time, it's just tragic now.
 
Redlambs said:
I really want to like this, but the writing is just so ridiculously poor and obvious, they've also made Picard like a bumbling old baby who needs constant attention and looking after. Also is Jerri Ryan in it permanently? Even though they seem to have butchered her character, it's still the biggest draw

But by far the worst thing is "JL". In fact the whole Rafi character and her endless stroppy teen into flip flop routine was boring enough the first time, it's just tragic now.
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I liked this last episode. Very good writing and general storyline on “the reclamation site”.
 
Redlambs said:
Not seen this weeks one, but the whole reclamation site story has definitely been the best bit. I'm giving it a chance still, I'm just finding the whole crew aspect so cookie cutter and dull.
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If you’re on the fence, I would definitely stay on board as the writing tends to improve in year two in most Trek series. The writers usually need the first year to discard what isn’t working and amplify things that are.
 
Raoul said:
If you’re on the fence, I would definitely stay on board as the writing tends to improve in year two in most Trek series. The writers usually need the first year to discard what isn’t working and amplify things that are.
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That's the same for pretty much every show to be honest.
 
Bloody awful stuff really.
Raoul said:
If you’re on the fence, I would definitely stay on board as the writing tends to improve in year two in most Trek series. The writers usually need the first year to discard what isn’t working and amplify things that are.
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They would have to discard around 80% of the show(including the character the show is named after). I agree , past ST's have tended to improve, build on the strengths of the shows, fine tune the ensemble cast.

This isn't really Star Trek though, could be any other modern sci-fi show with drearily heavy handed political and social commentary, awful character writing, and some rather mediocre acting, all wrapped up in a Star Trek ribbon to make it an easier sell. To steal one of the their lines, "The sheer fecking hubris."
 
Bobski said:
Bloody awful stuff really.


They would have to discard around 80% of the show(including the character the show is named after). I agree , past ST's have tended to improve, build on the strengths of the shows, fine tune the ensemble cast.

This isn't really Star Trek though, could be any other modern sci-fi show with drearily heavy handed political and social commentary, awful character writing, and some rather mediocre acting, all wrapped up in a Star Trek ribbon to make it an easier sell. To steal one of the their lines, "The sheer fecking hubris."
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I suppose it depends on what you think Star Trek is. This show is fantastic across many different categories and mediocre in a few others imo.
 
Raoul said:
I suppose it depends on what you think Star Trek is. This show is fantastic across many different categories and mediocre in a few others imo.
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I understand that a lot of people enjoy the departure from the usual optimistic portrayal of the future, enjoy a grittier(and probably more realistic) world. We have seen this so many times though, to the point this change is really just a pivot to generic sci-fi that is often done much better than they are managing with Picard.

You could make this show outside of the ST universe which wouldn't make so many of the lore and canon problems so jarring.
 
Bobski said:
I understand that a lot of people enjoy the departure from the usual optimistic portrayal of the future, enjoy a grittier(and probably more realistic) world. We have seen this so many times though, to the point this change is really just a pivot to generic sci-fi that is often done much better than they are managing with Picard.

You could make this show outside of the ST universe which wouldn't make so many of the lore and canon problems so jarring.
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I tend to agree with you on this but wod say that the future portrayed in TNG could be a bit too sanitised at times. A bit more grit isn't a bad thing in my opinion. I wouldn't want the optimistic view to be lost but Picard is responding to a devastating turn of events.
 
It's hard to enjoy ill be honest. It's not Discovery Season 1 bad, but I probably enjoyed Discovery S2 more than this. Picard and perhaps the Romulan lad are the only redeeming features so far. Even the android girl that I thought was interesting initially has got a bit... meh. It's all very dramatic but without the intelligence, very soap opera.
 
Reiver said:
I tend to agree with you on this but wod say that the future portrayed in TNG could be a bit too sanitised at times. A bit more grit isn't a bad thing in my opinion.
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DS9!
War, genocide by both sides, concentration camps, terrorists-as-heroes. And still existing within a recognisable Federation.

Reiver said:
I wouldn't want the optimistic view to be lost but Picard is responding to a devastating turn of events.
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Again, I've not seen it, and at this point am not planning to, but the devastating turn of events (the non-rescue of the Romulans) is unlikely given everything that's known about the Federation.
 
RedSky said:
It's hard to enjoy ill be honest. It's not Discovery Season 1 bad, but I probably enjoyed Discovery S2 more than this. Picard and perhaps the Romulan lad are the only redeeming features so far. Even the android girl that I thought was interesting initially has got a bit... meh. It's all very dramatic but without the intelligence, very soap opera.
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This. (Apart from the Picard bit, he's terrible in this so far.)

It actual reminds me of Gotham, it's the same storylines been done over and over. I don't know, I expected more intelligence and actual real characters from a show called Picard.
 
'Please, my friends. Choose to live.'

This was easily best episode so far. Perhaps this time they'll truly return exploring worlds like they used to... here's hoping.
 
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