Sri Lanka

[anver]

Sorry. Not journos. NGOs were involved.

SUNDAY TIMES. 24th MAY 2009.

NGOs smuggling IDPs out
By Leon Berenger

Attempts to smuggle out youth from camps housing Internally Displaced people (IDPs) prompted the Government to impose restrictions on visits, a senior Government official said yesterday.

Human Rights Ministry Secretary Rajiva Wijesinha said certain persons with the connivance of Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) workers were involved in this plot.

In the light of this, security sources said, a thorough screening of IDPs was under way in the camps. The purpose was to identify persons who were either guerilla cadres or had links with the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)

Mr. Wijesinha said the authorities were also looking into reports that paramilitary operatives were known to be loitering inside the camps after gaining access through certain NGOs and this matter was being treated seriously by government authorities.

“The restrictions are aimed at bringing the situation in the camps to manageable levels where security is given the top most priority.

Things get complicated when there are too many vehicles running up and down the camps thereby compromising security,” Prof: Wijesinha said.

He said 52 NGOs had been mandated to operate inside the IDP camps and none of them was willing to operate on foot but insisted they brought their air conditioned vehicles which raised a lot of dust and dirt in the air leading to an environmental issue.

“Therefore, we have asked them to reduce the number of vehicles during their movements inside the camps, and they have agreed,” he said.

UN’s Colombo spokesperson Gordon Weiss confirmed the reports that attempts had been made by certain persons to smuggle out groups of IDPs from the welfare centres and this prompted the authorities to bring in the restrictions.

“The situation indeed got out of control with so many aid agencies and individuals involved in the humanitarian work in the camps. Therefore the authorities were forced to act fast in bringing the situation under control,” Mr. Weiss said. Consortium of Humanitarian Agencies Chief Jeevan Thiyagarajah, however, said there was no truth in the reports that certain persons had attempted to smuggle out IDPs from the camps.

He said NGOs were continuing with their work despite the restrictions imposed on the movement of vehicles.

 

[Plechazunga]

It's been very interesting where you've been going with this thread from the very outset. Any decent human should be condemning these civilian killings, and looking to learn from these conflicts how best to avoid losing innocent lives in future conflicts.

Instead your contributions in this thread has been to criticise the UN, and ultimately in a warped way justified your countries murder of civilians, and getting in reasons/excuses for the future.

No, Sults, it’s perfectly reasonable for Holyland to comment on the lack of interest in this story compared to Gaza. Tons of threads about other conflicts have been hijacked into Israel-Palestine discussions by the anti-Israel brigade on here, why suddenly not this one? The double standard is just so fecking obvious and needs pointing out.

I mean, look at the situation. Thousands of civilians killed. Reports of hospitals targeted. Reports of a UN cover-up.

So where are they all? Where are the mass marches? Where are the boycotts? Where are the crap plays at the Royal Court? Where’s Ken Loach, banning Sri Lankan films at the Edinburgh Festival? Where’s the three-week, constant hour-by-hour TV coverage? Where are the hundreds of Guardian articles? Where are VidaRed and 032Devil and Nistelrooy and sammsky? Where’s Mozza, with his gnomic, staccato pronouncements of Good and Evil? Where are Rams and Ellie Brown, with pictures of dead children and Nazi comparisons and How Can This Be Allowed To Happen???? Where’s Weaste, with his imbecile theories of race and history? Where’s Vardamir – oh, look, he’s opened the thread, with the simple, value-judgement-free line, “Is this the end for the Tigers?”

As far as I’m concerned the double standards argument is now closed. You lot do not care about civilian casualties. You never did. Have the courage to admit this to yourselves next time it kicks off in I-P and people get killed. It’s not dead children motivating your anger. It’s something else.

I'm out of here after this, so to address a couple of arguments undoubtedly pending –

1) The numbers might be wrong. So what? They’re routinely exaggerated in I-P. Thousands killed. Warsaw Ghetto. Jenin Genocide. Even if the number of civilians here is out by a factor of ten, it’s still several times higher than Gaza.

2) No, the situations in Sri Lanka and Gaza/Lebanon are not the same. No, the Tigers are not Hamas/Hizbollah. Irrelevant. What’s at issue is the mass-killing of civilians by states. That has undoubtedly happened here. Why don’t you care?

3) I don’t care either. It’s true. There’s so much death and brutalization in the world, like many people I’ve found a way of walling it off from my life. I hear the numbers, I feel sad, I get on with my day. I’m a bad person. So are the rest of you. At least I’m not a hypocrite too.

 

[spinoza]

Now let me reiterate: No Lankan minister sent goons and thugs into a refugee camp and butchered men, women and children.

Another after thought:

No Lankan and his gang buried and burnt alive women and children, and then went on to become a prime minister of my country.

So it's alright if they do equally horrible things after they take office? And it's alright because other people do equally horrible things, giving them permission to do so?

You should be horrified at the stories coming out of the so-called no fire zone, and at the death toll. You should wonder whether or not the peace achieved is worth this sort of suffering. And while you can rejoice that Prabakharan is dead, you should also wonder whether or not Rajapaksa and his brothers are as good at making peace as they are at crushing opposition.

If you don't wonder these things, then you shouldn't be surprised that most Israelis don't either.

 

[Red-Indian]

Sorry. Not journos. NGOs were involved.

SUNDAY TIMES. 24th MAY 2009.

NGOs smuggling IDPs out
By Leon Berenger

Attempts to smuggle out youth from camps housing Internally Displaced people (IDPs) prompted the Government to impose restrictions on visits, a senior Government official said yesterday.

Human Rights Ministry Secretary Rajiva Wijesinha said certain persons with the connivance of Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) workers were involved in this plot.

In the light of this, security sources said, a thorough screening of IDPs was under way in the camps. The purpose was to identify persons who were either guerilla cadres or had links with the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)

Mr. Wijesinha said the authorities were also looking into reports that paramilitary operatives were known to be loitering inside the camps after gaining access through certain NGOs and this matter was being treated seriously by government authorities.

“The restrictions are aimed at bringing the situation in the camps to manageable levels where security is given the top most priority.

Things get complicated when there are too many vehicles running up and down the camps thereby compromising security,” Prof: Wijesinha said.

He said 52 NGOs had been mandated to operate inside the IDP camps and none of them was willing to operate on foot but insisted they brought their air conditioned vehicles which raised a lot of dust and dirt in the air leading to an environmental issue.

“Therefore, we have asked them to reduce the number of vehicles during their movements inside the camps, and they have agreed,” he said.

UN’s Colombo spokesperson Gordon Weiss confirmed the reports that attempts had been made by certain persons to smuggle out groups of IDPs from the welfare centres and this prompted the authorities to bring in the restrictions.

“The situation indeed got out of control with so many aid agencies and individuals involved in the humanitarian work in the camps. Therefore the authorities were forced to act fast in bringing the situation under control,” Mr. Weiss said. Consortium of Humanitarian Agencies Chief Jeevan Thiyagarajah, however, said there was no truth in the reports that certain persons had attempted to smuggle out IDPs from the camps.

He said NGOs were continuing with their work despite the restrictions imposed on the movement of vehicles.

Besides the obvious point that media were not involved in smuggling terrorists out of the camps, which you've already admitted, its far from clear that the UN spokesperson's statement has anything to do with NGOs doing it either. All he seems to acknowledge is that with the number of aid agencies and individuals involved in aid work, things had gotten chaotic and needed to be brough under control.

In any case, I am yet to hear the reason why respected media organisations are denied access to the affected civilians. The only reason I can possibly speculate is that things actually have been and are far worse than what the Times and other media organisations are reporting and the Lankan government doesn't want the real truth to come out preferring the diluted version of only 20,000 civilian deaths to be accepted. I'm not saying this is true only that this seems to be a logical explanation.

 

[anver]

No Plech. You cant equate the two conflicts.

1. Tamils are free to live anywhere in Sri-Lanka. Are Palestinians free to live anywhere in Israel?(You brought up the issue of Palestine). Honestly, I dont know; please tell me.

2. The Lankan army does not bulldoze and decimate the homes of suspected LTTE fighters, or their sympathisers.

3. Tamils are among the top dogs in commerce, industry and social circles. The Lankan foreign minister was also a Tamil, and he was gunned down by the LTTE.

As for the civilian deaths. Nobody knows the figure. But, we do get news from Tamils coming to Colombo from Jaffna. About two weeks ago, a figure of 2000 was touted. Last week the figure went up to 6000-7000. It is only the deaths that interest people. Do you know that in late April over 200,000 people crossed over to safe areas from the war zone? And all these people are housed in camps. Those who did not make it were people who opted to stay back, or people who were kept as human shields by the LTTE. The final push against the LTTE came about in an area of about 22 sq. km. It is during the final push that the death toll rose. It is not possible for the army to identify whether a person is a civilian or a militant.

And Plech if your army was responsible for the deaths of civilians during the past 60 years (lets forget the figures), and you point your finger at my army, which incidentally has been trained by your army, isnt that ironic?

Again let me say it is tragic that we have to bandy about with figures. The actual position of the survivors in refugee camps is even worse. There are quite a few aid agencies and the Red Cross that are active in these camps. But the resettlement of these refugees back to their homes is one huge task.

And if the army was given orders to shoot civilians, then the perpetrators definitely ought to be punished. It had happened before, and the culprits were punished. So justice will prevail. And the highest in the land will have no say, because the judiciary is pretty strong here.

 

[Spoony]

Why are the Tamils fighting for separate state? I've been doing a bit of research on the Tamii separatist movement. . .and there a few things I don't understand. Firstly, The Indian government used to support them but they stopped when they thought Tamil Nadu may join a new Tamil State. So why did they support the Tamils in the first place? secondly Why did the Tamils ethnically cleanse the North? the Muslims supported their stance but LTTE turned their backs on the Muslim. . .and basically forced most of them out and massacred a few thousand others. Unless it was some sort of divide and rule policy by the governent which seemed to have worked. And lastly, why don't the Sinahalese and Tamils get along? it solely based on religion or is more deep rooted than that?

 

[anver]

So it's alright if they do equally horrible things after they take office? And it's alright because other people do equally horrible things, giving them permission to do so?

You should be horrified at the stories coming out of the so-called no fire zone, and at the death toll. You should wonder whether or not the peace achieved is worth this sort of suffering. And while you can rejoice that Prabakharan is dead, you should also wonder whether or not Rajapaksa and his brothers are as good at making peace as they are at crushing opposition.

If you don't wonder these things, then you shouldn't be surprised that most Israelis don't either.

The no fire zone became a firing zone during the last days. All civilians were asked to leave. Over 200,000 civilians left that area. Some did not.

The 200k civilians are housed in camps, and are under the care of international aid agencies. There is a registration process going on now, to weed out LTTE fighters who have come in with the civilians.

As for Rajapakse and his brothers, please, I am no lover or supporter of them.
If they have been involved in genocide, then definitely, they should be tried and convicted.

My grouse was against the LTTE. I have numerous friends and business associates in Jaffna. And their stories of hardship under the LTTE was pathetic. It makes me happy that the virus has been removed. Whether it will be permanently removed, I dont know. If the Sinhala people are gracious and give the Tamils their just dues, then I dont think we will have another issue.

 

[anver]

Why are the Tamils fighting for separate state? I've been doing a bit of research on the Tamii separatist movement. . .and there a few things I don't understand. Firstly, The Indian government used to support them but they stopped when they thought Tamil Nadu may join a new Tamil State. So why did they support the Tamils in the first place? secondly Why did the Tamils ethnically cleanse the North? the Muslims supported their stance but LTTE turned their backs on the Muslim. . .and basically forced most of them out and massacred a few thousand others. Unless it was some sort of divide and rule policy by the governent which seemed to have worked. And lastly, why don't the Sinahalese and Tamils get along? it solely based on religion or is more deep rooted than that?

The problem, as far as I know started in 1956. Bandaranaike was elected prime minister. All govt. business was conducted in English, then. This worthy ordered that Sinhala would be the state language. Tamils protested; they did not get a hearing. The north was totally Tamil speaking. So, they rightfully felt discriminated. This simmered into discontent among the youth, who, in 1975 took to arms. The leader was Prabhakaran. Matters took a turn for the worse, in 1983, when some Sinhala hardliners took to the streets, and burnt down Tamil businesses and homes in Colombo, in retaliation to an ambush which saw 17 soldiers killed. From that point there has been no turning back.

Muslims at first supported the Tamils. But in 1989(?) the LTTE ordered all Muslims to leave the North within two hours. They had to leave their homes, and businesses with just the clothes they were wearing. They were put in buses and transported South. Over 500,000 muslims were affected. Then a few years later LTTE fighters sprayed machine gun fire on about 200 muslims (figures may be wrong) in a mosque in the East.

In between quite a lot of Sinhala civilians were also massacred by the LTTE. This led to a hardening of emotions against the LTTE, but not against the Tamils. Tamils are free to live anywhere in Sri-Lanka. And they are among the business leaders here.

But among the Sinhalese there are a few racist elements who are bent on creating disharmony. Its not just the Tamils whom they hate, the Muslims, too, are not spared. And they create problems whenever they get a chance.

If these elements could be subdued, then peace can prevail here. But we have our doubts. There are politicians and clergymen who are actively involved in disturbing the equilibrium.

But on the whole, the Sinhalese are a good lot, and it is our fervent prayer that extremist elements are defeated and peace prevails.

 

[spinoza]

The no fire zone became a firing zone during the last days. All civilians were asked to leave. Over 200,000 civilians left that area. Some did not.

Or could not.

The 200k civilians are housed in camps, and are under the care of international aid agencies. There is a registration process going on now, to weed out LTTE fighters who have come in with the civilians.

As for Rajapakse and his brothers, please, I am no lover or supporter of them.
If they have been involved in genocide, then definitely, they should be tried and convicted.

My grouse was against the LTTE. I have numerous friends and business associates in Jaffna. And their stories of hardship under the LTTE was pathetic. It makes me happy that the virus has been removed. Whether it will be permanently removed, I dont know.

That's a good and fair answer. Thank you.

If the Sinhala people are gracious and give the Tamils their just dues, then I dont think we will have another issue.

Sadly, all too often in these things the victor is not magnanimous.

 

[anver]

Or could not.



That's a good and fair answer. Thank you.



Sadly, all too often in these things the victor is not magnanimous.

The Sinhalese in general are a good lot. A few among the highly educated class, some clergymen, and certain politicians have racist leanings.

 

[Spoony]

The problem, as far as I know started in 1956. Bandaranaike was elected prime minister. All govt. business was conducted in English, then. This worthy ordered that Sinhala would be the state language. Tamils protested; they did not get a hearing. The north was totally Tamil speaking. So, they rightfully felt discriminated. This simmered into discontent among the youth, who, in 1975 took to arms. The leader was Prabhakaran. Matters took a turn for the worse, in 1983, when some Sinhala hardliners took to the streets, and burnt down Tamil businesses and homes in Colombo, in retaliation to an ambush which saw 17 soldiers killed. From that point there has been no turning back.

Muslims at first supported the Tamils. But in 1989(?) the LTTE ordered all Muslims to leave the North within two hours. They had to leave their homes, and businesses with just the clothes they were wearing. They were put in buses and transported South. Over 500,000 muslims were affected. Then a few years later LTTE fighters sprayed machine gun fire on about 200 muslims (figures may be wrong) in a mosque in the East.

In between quite a lot of Sinhala civilians were also massacred by the LTTE. This led to a hardening of emotions against the LTTE, but not against the Tamils. Tamils are free to live anywhere in Sri-Lanka. And they are among the business leaders here.

But among the Sinhalese there are a few racist elements who are bent on creating disharmony. Its not just the Tamils whom they hate, the Muslims, too, are not spared. And they create problems whenever they get a chance.

If these elements could be subdued, then peace can prevail here. But we have our doubts. There are politicians and clergymen who are actively involved in disturbing the equilibrium.

But on the whole, the Sinhalese are a good lot, and it is our fervent prayer that extremist elements are defeated and peace prevails.

The first part has shed some light. However, I still don't understand why they targeted the Muslims in the north. Also, India's intitial backing - was it down to religion or just politics? by politics I mean, India's got a substantial Tamil population, was that the reason for their support? From an outsider's perspective it seems a separate Tamil state is the only viable solution.

 

[Spoony]

Reading up a bit of history. The Sinhala are originally from North India(and later from around the Bay of Bengal area), they speak an indo Aryan language(with heavy local influence) whereas the Tamils are Dravidians. That said the Sinhala originally settled in the south around 5 BC, which to me seems as if ethnically, both groups are probably the same ie share the same gene pool. So, I guess the only things that separate these ethnic groups are language and religion. 'Only' he says.

 

[anver]

India's support was, I think, due to political reasons. But during the latest election, the vociferously pro-Tamil Jayalalitha was roundly defeated. Funny isnt it?

The Muslims were targeted because although they supported the Tamils, they were not very supportive of the LTTE, which was waging a war against a democratically elected government.

That is why the LTTE persecuted them. But the Tamils had nothing to do with this ethnic cleansing.

 

[Spoony]

India's support was, I think, due to political reasons. But during the latest election, the vociferously pro-Tamil Jayalalitha was roundly defeated. Funny isnt it?

The Muslims were targeted because although they supported the Tamils, they were not very supportive of the LTTE, which was waging a war against a democratically elected government.

That is why the LTTE persecuted them. But the Tamils had nothing to do with this ethnic cleansing.

Basically it was LTTE's fault and not the local Tamil population? And one more thing, the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, was it carried out by a Tamil group?

 

[spinoza]

Reading up a bit of history. The Sinhala are originally from North India(and later from around the Bay of Bengal area), they speak an indo Aryan language(with heavy local influence) whereas the Tamils are Dravidians. That said the Sinhala originally settled in the south around 5 BC, which to me seems as if ethnically, both groups are probably the same ie share the same gene pool. So, I guess the only things that separate these ethnic groups are language and religion. 'Only' he says.

They look quite different Spoons, and they have quite different cultures. Tamils are darker, with flatter noses and cheekbones, and they cook incredibly good mild veggie curries and just as good spicy dry meat curries. Sinhalese are fairer, with longer, more pointed noses and higher cheekbones, and they cook even milder, wetter veggie curries. Their meat dishes are mild and quite wet also, with less chillies. They make more use of fish and seafood than Tamils do.

 

[Spoony]

They look quite different Spoons, and they have quite different cultures. Tamils are darker, with flatter noses and cheekbones, and they cook incredibly good mild veggie curries and just as good spicy dry meat curries. Sinhalese are fairer, with longer, more pointed noses and higher cheekbones, and they cook even milder, wetter veggie curries. Their meat dishes are mild and quite wet also, with less chillies. They make more use of fish and seafood than Tamils do.

I thought they'd have intermarried enough over the last couple of thousands years. Generally speaking though, Indians seems to have broader flatter noses. Not just Tamils. But the features you described are more Northern Indian than Southern or Central. Tamils look more Aboriginal(Oz) then, I presume.

 

[Red-Indian]

The first part has shed some light. However, I still don't understand why they targeted the Muslims in the north. Also, India's intitial backing - was it down to religion or just politics? by politics I mean, India's got a substantial Tamil population, was that the reason for their support? From an outsider's perspective it seems a separate Tamil state is the only viable solution.

The tamils in Lanka and the tamils in India are(or used to be) quite intermingled. Lot of intermarriages and moving back and forth. Indian government support wasn't as open as all that. More a blind eye here and a friendly nod there. The local governments in the state of Tamil Nadu and 'friends of Lanka tamils' organisations in Tamil Nadu used to be much more active in supporting the LTTE.

Indian interference peaked under Indira Gandhi who, drunk on her success in separating Bangladesh from Pakistan, starting having visions of being a major regional satrap with satellite states in Northern Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan and even Burma.

Rajiv Gandhi initially continued this. After he sent a peace keeping force (IPKF) into Sri Lanka, India saw this as the culmination of its strategy (a major military force in Sri Lanka) and expected LTTE and the other tamil militant organisations to meekly fall in line and lay down arms. Instead the IPKF was embrolied in a Iraq like low intensity guerilla war with the LTTE. As the body bags started coming home, the Indian public lost enthusiasm. The Sri Lankan government was pissed off as well and IPKF came back.

In revenge LTTE sent a suicide bomber to kill Rajiv Gandhi and India since then has more or less washed its hands off the problem. There's still been some financial support from the Tamil diaspora even in Tamil Nadu but nothing official even from the state government.

 

[Spoony]

The tamils in Lanka and the tamils in India are(or used to be) quite intermingled. Lot of intermarriages and moving back and forth. Indian government support wasn't as open as all that. More a blind eye here and a friendly nod there. The local governments in the state of Tamil Nadu and 'friends of Lanka tamils' organisations in Tamil Nadu used to be much more active in supporting the LTTE.

Indian interference peaked under Indira Gandhi who, drunk on her success in separating Bangladesh from Pakistan, starting having visions of being a major regional satrap with satellite states in Northern Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan and even Burma.

Rajiv Gandhi initially continued this. After he sent a peace keeping force (IPKF) into Sri Lanka, India saw this as the culmination of its strategy (a major military force in Sri Lanka) and expected LTTE and the other tamil militant organisations to meekly fall in line and lay down arms. Instead the IPKF was embrolied in a Iraq like low intensity guerilla war with the LTTE. As the body bags started coming home, the Indian public lost enthusiasm. The Sri Lankan government was pissed off as well and IPKF came back.

In revenge LTTE sent a suicide bomber to kill Rajiv Gandhi and India since then has more or less washed its hands off the problem. There's still been some financial support from the Tamil diaspora even in Tamil Nadu but nothing official even from the state government.

I see. So basically the LTTE didn't want to slow down their separation policy? If they get their wish there's a huge chance the Tamils in Southern India will want to break away and join a new Tamil state. Is that right?


Can of worms. Opened. Years ago.

 

[Red-Indian]

I see. So basically the LTTE didn't want to slow down their separation policy? If they get their wish there's a huge chance the Tamils in Southern India will want to break away and join a new Tamil state. Is that right?


Can of worms. Opened. Years ago.

About right... all the Indian government of the time wanted was a dependant Sri Lankan state not an actual independant Tamil nation (god forbid!).

Its amazing now to look back and think that they expected rabid dogs like Prabhakaran to meekly fall in line once they snapped their (military) fingers but they actually did expect such silliness.

 

[anver]

Basically it was LTTE's fault and not the local Tamil population? And one more thing, the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team, was it carried out by a Tamil group?

LTTE= Liberation Tigers of Tamil Ealam.

They first started as a unit fighting for the Tamil cause. But as they grew, they became ruthless, and egocentric. They had no respect for their own kind, and anybody who opposed them met with a bullet. They then split into the main LTTE, PLOTE, EROS, and later EPRLF etc. Some of the other groups entered mainstream politics. But the LTTE remained a terrorist group. Tamil mainstream politicians also became their targets. Kill. Kill.Kill.

The ethnic cleansing of Muslims was not a popular Tamil job. It was done solely by the LTTE.

The attack on the Lankan cricket team remains a mystery. The Taliban or any other militant group had nothing to gain by it. Maybe some nut jobs did it for kicks? Whodunit? Only time will tell.

 

[Spoony]

About right... all the Indian government of the time wanted was a dependant Sri Lankan state not an actual independant Tamil nation (god forbid!).

Its amazing now to look back and think that they expected rabid dogs like Prabhakaran to meekly fall in line once they snapped their (military) fingers but they actually did expect such silliness.

Once separatist organisations/freedom fighting/terrorist groups have been created, they're virtually impossible to disband. Take Hizbollah for example, they came into existence during the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon, yet many moons later, they've still got a huge following/backing.

 

[Spoony]

LTTE= Liberation Tigers of Tamil Ealam.

They first started as a unit fighting for the Tamil cause. But as they grew, they became ruthless, and egocentric. They had no respect for their own kind, and anybody who opposed them met with a bullet. They then split into the main LTTE, PLOTE, EROS, and later EPRLF etc. Some of the other groups entered mainstream politics. But the LTTE remained a terrorist group. Tamil mainstream politicians also became their targets. Kill. Kill.Kill.

The ethnic cleansing of Muslims was not a popular Tamil job. It was done solely by the LTTE.

The attack on the Lankan cricket team remains a mystery. lThe Taliban or any other militant group had nothing to gain by it. Maybe some nut jobs did it for kicks? Whodunit? Only time will tel.

It was clearly done for effect. It's certainly marginalised Pakistan cricket. But It's not as if Sri Lankan cricket has suffered. That said, it could've been a different story had a few of the Lankan players lost their lives. So I guess, we'll never know. I wonder how many Tamil players play for the national team. Oh and I find this a bit strange. The Lankan national flag and cricket logos contain a lion. 'Sina' means lion in Sanskrit. It's not exactly encompassing all ethnic groups is it?

 

[Red-Indian]

Once separatist organisations/freedom fighting/terrorist groups have been created, they're virtually impossible to disband. Take Hizbollah for example, they came into existence during the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon, yet many moons later, they've still got a huge following/backing.

True... luckily except for Rajiv Gandhi's assasination, the ham handed attempt at interferance in our neighbouring country has had very few consequences for India. We pulled out as soon as we got our hands burned and stayed out of it since then.

 

[Sultan]

No, Sults, it’s perfectly reasonable for Holyland to comment on the lack of interest in this story compared to Gaza. Tons of threads about other conflicts have been hijacked into Israel-Palestine discussions by the anti-Israel brigade on here, why suddenly not this one? The double standard is just so fecking obvious and needs pointing out.

I mean, look at the situation. Thousands of civilians killed. Reports of hospitals targeted. Reports of a UN cover-up.

So where are they all? Where are the mass marches? Where are the boycotts? Where are the crap plays at the Royal Court? Where’s Ken Loach, banning Sri Lankan films at the Edinburgh Festival? Where’s the three-week, constant hour-by-hour TV coverage? Where are the hundreds of Guardian articles? Where are VidaRed and 032Devil and Nistelrooy and sammsky? Where’s Mozza, with his gnomic, staccato pronouncements of Good and Evil? Where are Rams and Ellie Brown, with pictures of dead children and Nazi comparisons and How Can This Be Allowed To Happen???? Where’s Weaste, with his imbecile theories of race and history? Where’s Vardamir – oh, look, he’s opened the thread, with the simple, value-judgement-free line, “Is this the end for the Tigers?”

As far as I’m concerned the double standards argument is now closed. You lot do not care about civilian casualties. You never did. Have the courage to admit this to yourselves next time it kicks off in I-P and people get killed. It’s not dead children motivating your anger. It’s something else.

I'm out of here after this, so to address a couple of arguments undoubtedly pending –

1) The numbers might be wrong. So what? They’re routinely exaggerated in I-P. Thousands killed. Warsaw Ghetto. Jenin Genocide. Even if the number of civilians here is out by a factor of ten, it’s still several times higher than Gaza.

2) No, the situations in Sri Lanka and Gaza/Lebanon are not the same. No, the Tigers are not Hamas/Hizbollah. Irrelevant. What’s at issue is the mass-killing of civilians by states. That has undoubtedly happened here. Why don’t you care?

3) I don’t care either. It’s true. There’s so much death and brutalization in the world, like many people I’ve found a way of walling it off from my life. I hear the numbers, I feel sad, I get on with my day. I’m a bad person. So are the rest of you. At least I’m not a hypocrite too.

I believe that's because the Palestinians, and their friends have done a fantastic job to make the conflict global. Unlike those conflicts you mention above.

The media has also played a big part, and will only run with conflicts where they are likely to get most value for money. Israel, and Palestine is a big sell. It has also been true for years that most of Israels' criticism comes from the Israeli press and Israeli peace groups.

There's very little to gain from equating conflicts, why or who gets the most criticism or coverage. Horror is horror.

 

[crappycraperson]

India's support was, I think, due to political reasons. But during the latest election, the vociferously pro-Tamil Jayalalitha was roundly defeated. Funny isnt it?

The Muslims were targeted because although they supported the Tamils, they were not very supportive of the LTTE, which was waging a war against a democratically elected government.

That is why the LTTE persecuted them. But the Tamils had nothing to do with this ethnic cleansing.

DMK is the biggest supporter of Tamils in Lanka and they swept the last elections. It is also their Govt in power in Tamil Nadu.

 

[Chris H]

There's very little to gain from equating conflicts, why or who gets the most criticism or coverage. Horror is horror.

Except a bit of much needed perspective for the section of society who display an over-developed sense of outrage over the situation in Israel and Palestine. Pointing out the deafening silence and the double standard of the international community when the lives at stake are not in the West Bank and Gaza is perfectly valid.

Especially considering the venom with which that double standard is applied - both here and elsewhere.

 

[anver]

DMK is the biggest supporter of Tamils in Lanka and they swept the last elections. It is also their Govt in power in Tamil Nadu.

True. But Jaya was more vociferous.

'NDA will send the Indian army to Sri-Lanka, and carve out a separate state.'

And another one: Jaya to Centre: ' Start air drop of food to Tamil areas forthwith.'

 

[anver]

It was clearly done for effect. It's certainly marginalised Pakistan cricket. But It's not as if Sri Lankan cricket has suffered. That said, it could've been a different story had a few of the Lankan players lost their lives. So I guess, we'll never know. I wonder how many Tamil players play for the national team. Oh and I find this a bit strange. The Lankan national flag and cricket logos contain a lion. 'Sina' means lion in Sanskrit. It's not exactly encompassing all ethnic groups is it?

Yes. That flag has been a bone of contention among minorities for quite some time. Successive governments have let this matter lie for political expediency. But it is definitely a disturbing issue.

And yes. Murali is a Tamil. Mubarak and Maharoof are Muslims.

Jaffna produced some fantastic cricketers in the past. Unfortunately none of them continued playing after school, because they found more lucrative careers. It is only after Lanka won the world cup that cricket has become a money spinner.

 

[spinoza]

I thought they'd have intermarried enough over the last couple of thousands years. Generally speaking though, Indians seems to have broader flatter noses. Not just Tamils. But the features you described are more Northern Indian than Southern or Central. Tamils look more Aboriginal(Oz) then, I presume.

The Sinhalese originally came from the North.

Tamils don't look that much like Australian aboriginals, they have smaller chins and jawbones.

 

[Spoony]

The Sinhalese originally came from the North.

Tamils don't look that much like Australian aboriginals, they have smaller chins and jawbones.

I've mentioned this a few times in this thread. They moved over 2,000 years ago. So, unless they've been totally isolated(which I doubt), they probably share the same gene pool with the Tamils. We're talking more than 2,000 years.

As for Tamils, I think many do. Here's a Vedda man, they're more closely related to Sinahala.

 

[Spoony]

Yes. That flag has been a bone of contention among minorities for quite some time. Successive governments have let this matter lie for political expediency. But it is definitely a disturbing issue.

And yes. Murali is a Tamil. Mubarak and Maharoof are Muslims.

Jaffna produced some fantastic cricketers in the past. Unfortunately none of them continued playing after school, because they found more lucrative careers. It is only after Lanka won the world cup that cricket has become a money spinner.

Dilhara Fernando looks like a beast of a man. He's fecking huge.

 

[anver]

There was one Tamil player who played for Sri-Lanka in the eighties: Vinothan John. A fastie. He was bigger than Dilhara.

 

[holyland red]

I thought the practice of concentration camps either never existed or that it was a thing of the past...Anyway, the UN human rights committee surely can't let this go on without being investigated.

Tamils shot by army after attempting to ‘escape’ from internment camp - Times Online

Sri Lankan troops opened fire on dozens of Tamil civilians as they allegedly tried to escape from internment camps where they and 280,000 others have been held since the defeat of the Tamil Tiger rebels in May.

Police said that three of the civilians suffered gunshot wounds, but a pro-Tiger website put the number at six, and said that they had been out collecting firewood rather than attempting to escape.

The army said that the civilians had pelted soldiers with stones as they tried to break free from the Manik Farm camp in the northern district of Vavuniya on Saturday.

“The army fired in self defence,” said Brigadier Udaya Nanayakkara, an army spokesman. He said that 19 of the civilians had been arrested.

 

[SecondFig]

I thought the practice of concentration camps either never existed or that it was a thing of the past...Anyway, the UN human rights committee surely can't let this go on without being investigated...

The UN and EU have both been pretty damning in their criticisms of both the Sri Lankan government/army and the Tigers, the problem has been the "war against terror" label that has helped the Sri Lankan government deflect criticism, but you're absolutely right, the UN needs to get more involved in Sri Lanka as the human rights violations in the last 5 years have been shocking.

 

[redfromcanada]

To answer the original poster, according to my son, who has a few Tamil friends here (some were even members of Tamil Tiger gangs), apparently, the Tamil Tiger gangs have disbanded, replaced by "number" gangs that are independent of one another but still committed to the cause, although most may hide behind that as a cover for criminal activities.

 

[Melbourne Red]

Sri Lanka blasts US report on human rights abuses | World news | guardian.co.uk


Sri Lanka blasts US report on human rights abuses


The Sri Lankan government today angrily rejected a US state department report containing allegations of human rights abuses in the final days of the country's civil war, saying the document would fan further conflict.

According to accounts a senior US state department official called "credible and well substantiated," government forces abducted and killed ethnic Tamil civilians, shelled and bombed no-fire zones, and killed senior rebel leaders with whom they had brokered a surrender.

Although the US stressed the allegations in the report did not constitute an accusation of war crimes, the Sri Lankan foreign affairs ministry in Colombo accused the US of smearing its reputation.

"The allegations against the government of Sri Lanka... appear to be unsubstantiated and devoid of corroborative evidence," the ministry said. "There is a track record of vested interests endeavouring to bring the government of Sri Lanka into disrepute, through fabricated allegations and concocted stories."

The report also includes allegations of violations by the defeated Tamil Tiger rebels, an organisation the US deems a terrorist group. It includes allegations that the rebels conscripted children as young as 12, used non-combatants as human shields, and gunned down civilians attempting to flee rebel-held areas.

Stephen Rapp, the US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, called on authorities in Sri Lanka to investigate allegations of abuse by both sides.

"We want accountability in this situation," he said. "We believe that [Sri Lankan authorities] can investigate this. We're trusting in that commitment."

The 70-page report to Congress was compiled from intelligence reports from the US embassy in Colombo, text messages and photographs from inside the war zone, foreign government sources and reports from human rights and media organisations.

The report says it reaches no conclusions on the veracity of the charges, though Rapp said the individual sources are "credible and reliable," and that allegations had been corroborated.

"The US state department report should dispel any doubts that serious abuses were committed during the conflict's final months," said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. "Given Sri Lanka's complete failure to investigate possible war crimes, the only hope for justice is an independent, international investigation."

The abuses are alleged to have occurred in the final months of the 25 year-long conflict, when the Sri Lankan military cornered the remnants of the rebel force in a grim strip of beach in the north-east of the island.

The report describes a hellish scene, in which a no-fire zone crowded with civilians was struck by sustained heavy shelling and bombing, with those who attempted to escape rebel-held areas mowed down by Tamil Tiger fighters.

One source in the no-fire zone estimated 100 people per day were dying in Sri Lankan army shelling and bombing. Another source said hospital facilities in the area were continually struck by shells, even though their locations had been carefully reported to the Sri Lankan government. According to a report cited, a congested civilian area of the no-fire zone came under heavy shell attack, killing hundreds of civilians.

The report cites video footage of Sri Lankan forces executing nine bound, naked captive Tamils in January, which the Sri Lankan government says was forged, and killings of young men rounded up in government-established safe zones. The US embassy and other governments reported that Tamil political leaders were killed while surrendering to government forces, the report said.

It came as more than 4,000 Tamils were released today from government-run camps where they have been held since May. Hundreds more remain in what the United Nations describes as internment camps with inadequate sanitation and healthcare. The Sri Lankan government has defended the measures, charging that Tamil Tiger fighters may still be hiding among the civilian refugees.

Since the end of fighting, the government has reintegrated fewer than 27,000 civilians, leaving an estimated 245,000 in the camps, according to Human Rights Watch. Last week, the Sri Lanka's resettlement and disaster relief services minister Rishard Bathiudeen said the government plans to resettle 100,000 by the end of the year.

The US is Sri Lanka's most important trading partner, accounting for more than a quarter of the island nation's exports. The US is a major provider of assistance, giving $23.4m (£14.1m) in direct aid in 2007.

 

[anver]

Nothing new. These allegations were the same ones made in June. And for the US to highlight this, it is one big joke.