Pecentage, set figure who knows any venue will hardly put a comcert on for free. Again the drink and food at an area a concert is a massive revenue, what your talking about £6-7 a pint. Everything adds up.
Pecentage, set figure who knows any venue will hardly put a comcert on for free. Again the drink and food at an area a concert is a massive revenue, what your talking about £6-7 a pint. Everything adds up.
The £1bn total cost estimate is from various reports in the press around the time of the delayed opening announcement.
For instance Poch is quoted saying the Stadium will cost "almost £1bn"
For comparison, the latest official cost estimate from the club was some £830m. Could it be Poch is just being inaccurate (£830m is pretty close to £1bn mind)?
Sure. But given that the stadium is now delayed, match revenue lost, brexit, electricians reportedly earning silly money, and you can put in argument you want here, I think it's more than likely the cost of the stadium has risen from our previous budget....
I was a bit unpresice in my last post, so to make it clear: WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE STADIUM FINANCE. (From memory, haven't read our accounts in a few months: Rotschild bank have put up a £400m loan + Tavistock's £500m guarantee alone should finance more or less all of it)
HOWEVER: I'm pretty sure Lewis/Levy would like as little as possible of that £500m guarantee to be used,(and right now they are in line having to pay most of that) so more than likely a plausable £150m in extra cost on the stadium will translate into £150m more in interest bearing debt. If we can't find that £400m naming rights sponsor.. well, then we are probably looking at even more interest bearing loans. These last 2 would be added to that £400m from Rotschild mind...
I think part of the reason we haven't spend anything this summer (other than on (I agree, very significant) contracts, but we still lack Eriksen, Alli, Alderweireld, Verthongen btw..) )is because our financing costs are rising.
We didn't sign new players, and then *bam* stadium delay...
If you think about it, and you're able to be honest, so do you....
I agree with most of what your saying but the thing is our transfer model
has basically been the same for the last 10 years. We get as close to a net spend as possible, Levy wasn’t lieing when he said the stadium wouldn’t effect our transfer spending
. I’m not overly bothered by the price or the delay.Have you ever been to a concert? You don't go hours before it starts to do extreme sports, it's incredibly wishful thinking at best.
The stadium capacity is more than 60k, actually 62k+.
We'll have the largest club shop in Europe on-site - merchandise sold through this will generate income for Spurs. If there is no ticketing split, then there will be hire fees for the stadium. And what about advertising facilities/space? It won't be given for free. And what about tickets for the extreme sports centre or the sky walk? All on top of food and drink. And it all adds up.
For starters, what other concert venues will be even open all day before the concert starts? And what other venues even have an extreme sports centre?
But this is all nit-picking, because there'll be plenty of other things to do inside the stadium complex for those who want to make a day of it.
As I've said before, I don't think some folk have yet grasped the full scope of what Spurs are constructing.
My original and entire point is that people aren't going to early to watch a concert so they can do extreme sports.
The full scope is that it's a shopping centre with a football stadium attached to it, it's not really that impressive a feat.
The article you posted said 50k. 62k may well be the capacity but where does the stage go? How many events in the U.K. attract crowds of that size?
You’re the one telling us the conservative estimates so you tell me how much those things generate. How much do the advertising boards generate for matches that are also broadcast on television all over the world?
At one end of the NFL pitch I'd imagine, or somewhere on it at least.
I don't know how much advertising boards generate. Nor do I know how many events in the U.K. attract crowds of that size.
But such events are simply icing on the cake - they'll likely represent less than 10% of total Spurs income.
Any likely suggestions for the new name?
Will it be something like AIA Arena or fun 88 stadium?
Will it be something like AIA Arena or fun 88 stadium?
And even less in profits. It might pay off about 2% of the debt incurred.
Actually it's two football stadiums in effect - one for NFL football and one for Spurs, both purpose built and dedicated to their separate sport.
And the 'shopping centre' includes a hotel, apartments, extreme sports centre (including tallest indoor climbing wall in the world and an indoor dive tank), health centre, museum, sky-walk, public square with multi-use games area, cinema, club HQ (Lilywhite House) and more.
I imagine keeping a facility like that for that sort of usage wouldn’t add up. You’ve got extra security, insurance, lecky, hospitality staff costs, etc, etc.
Unless just by virtue of it being there, it’ll draw Camp Nou style numbers in terms of inquisitive visitors?
I could be way off, but I just can’t see that..
The market for Spurs merchandise is Spurs fans, having a larger store won't change that.
Sure, a bigger stadium probably means more customers on game days and a nicer experience might make them spend a bit more, but it's not like there's an infinite number of potential customers.
The Cock and Ball
I agree with most of what your saying but the thing is our transfer model
has basically been the same for the last 10 years. We get as close to a net spend as possible, Levy wasn’t lieing when he said the stadium wouldn’t effect our transfer spending
Oh, I agree it isn't a huge change, albeit even for us signing NO ONE is pushing it.
As long as Levy is in charge I'm not too scared about us turning into Leeds, Portsmouth, Parma, Fiorentina (to name just a few well known examples of a very long list of clubs that f***ed up), so no, not too bothered. As long as the
club exists and play in the top division I pretty much have what I bought into. I live fine with that.
BUT: Have to say it's been a welcome change being a spurs fan under Pochettino. We actually have a manager that have us playing really good football, while competing for the top 4, and seemingly he is also able to make most of the players better, and all this on a budget 40-65% (something like that) of our main competitors.
Brilliant, bordering on magic if you ask me. Easily the best period I've had in my roughly 33 years as a fan.
I don't even mind too much that we haven't won titles. I realized a couple of decades ago that i will likely go through life without us winning any of the 2 titles that really count.
The thing is though, until City and and Pep did their thing last year I even started seeing WINNING the league as a plausable scenario with just a little luck in the next few years.
I've also really, really started to take aliking in ending above Liverpool in a normal year...
And obviously ending above Chelsea and Arsenal too which suddenly have become an option under Poch
So far Levy seems to have convinced Poch enough of our ambitions for the latter to publicly insist the club is showing ambition, so for me, on the surface, it looks like Poch is still happy, and if Poch is happy, I'm happy.
So no, not too bothered with the price or delay if Poch isn't. but as we saw in Southampton when they got new owners that didn't match his ambition: he will leave.
.
Absolute rubbish.
The FA Cup was won by the likes of the Royal Artillery, Corinthians,Old Etonians, Old Carthusians and none of those were or ever will be leagues clubs.
Spurs did win it whilst a Southern League club but that was in the day when the FL was mainly the domain of Northern Clubs and the Southern League was the equivalent in the South
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I also heard the stadium will be 4d, the world's first tesseract stadium. The daily lines just to walk in and see it will be longer than to the Vatican.
That’s the level of revolutionary I taking from Glastons posts.
That’s the level of revolutionary I taking from Glastons posts.
I think at Southampton his players being sold from underneath him was the problem.
That’s just over half, what about the other half? The money made is not tiny by clubs with a stadium to get the money out of it. Also those clubs listed spent maybe £30m I net in the trasfter window.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....06/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2016-17
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I love the fact that Glaston thinks 60k people are going to consistently come to a shopping mall/football stadium hours before a match or event and stay for hours afterwards.
Because these 60k people don't have lives going on or regular matchday routines. They don't meet early in their favourite pub to watch the earlier games and don't return there after the match to discuss it with their mates.
After the fascination of the first couple of games wears off, that they'll still keep coming back to spend the entire day drinking shite expensive beer in plastic glasses and queuing 15 thousand at a time to have a go on the climbing wall.
It's just not even remotely realistic. Not even for Barcelona, Real Madrid or Manchester United who have hoardes of fans from all over the world desperate to come and visit their iconic stadiums, let alone some North London johnny-come-latelys with delusions of grandeur.
Because these 60k people don't have lives going on or regular matchday routines. They don't meet early in their favourite pub to watch the earlier games and don't return there after the match to discuss it with their mates.
After the fascination of the first couple of games wears off, that they'll still keep coming back to spend the entire day drinking shite expensive beer in plastic glasses and queuing 15 thousand at a time to have a go on the climbing wall.
It's just not even remotely realistic. Not even for Barcelona, Real Madrid or Manchester United who have hoardes of fans from all over the world desperate to come and visit their iconic stadiums, let alone some North London johnny-come-latelys with delusions of grandeur.
If you build the mall, they will come.
I can just smell the envy here. Not only do Spurs have a better manager, striker and team, they'll also have a better stadium. 
No in all seriousness though, can people stop trying to portray Spurs having a brand new stadium as a bad thing? Spurs are moving from an old outdated 33000 seater stadium to a modern iconic biggest club stadium in London. It will be the envy of other clubs in the country. It will establish Spurs as a proper player off the field, (they already are on the field). There isn't a single negative aspect of it which you guys can try to spin. Seriously, I think Levy and the club have done the maths and worked out that it will make Spurs much more money than they currently earn. Otherwise why would they spend £1 billion on it?
And even taking away the financials of it, as just a fan pure and simple, as a ST holder. Am I really bothered about the profit and loss account? I get to watch my team in a brilliant new stadium we call home on the site of old WHL. It's mega exciting times. Nothing else really matters.
No in all seriousness though, can people stop trying to portray Spurs having a brand new stadium as a bad thing? Spurs are moving from an old outdated 33000 seater stadium to a modern iconic biggest club stadium in London. It will be the envy of other clubs in the country. It will establish Spurs as a proper player off the field, (they already are on the field). There isn't a single negative aspect of it which you guys can try to spin. Seriously, I think Levy and the club have done the maths and worked out that it will make Spurs much more money than they currently earn. Otherwise why would they spend £1 billion on it?
And even taking away the financials of it, as just a fan pure and simple, as a ST holder. Am I really bothered about the profit and loss account? I get to watch my team in a brilliant new stadium we call home on the site of old WHL. It's mega exciting times. Nothing else really matters.
Just to add to this the £1bn seems to be the project cost rather than the stadium cost
"The development plans also include 579 new homes, a 180-room hotel, a local community health centre, the "Tottenham Experience" – a Spurs museum and club shop - an extreme sports facility, as well as the Lilywhite House, which contains a Sainsbury's supermarket, a sixth form college and the club's headquarters"
If so any profit from these will go against the £1bn. Including selling off any unwanted parts and unused land if and when prices increase due to the project. Other than the fact its a bit of a hole Tottenham has got a lot of potentials, I know some hipsters are moving up from "gentrified Hackney" already.
"The development plans also include 579 new homes, a 180-room hotel, a local community health centre, the "Tottenham Experience" – a Spurs museum and club shop - an extreme sports facility, as well as the Lilywhite House, which contains a Sainsbury's supermarket, a sixth form college and the club's headquarters"
If so any profit from these will go against the £1bn. Including selling off any unwanted parts and unused land if and when prices increase due to the project. Other than the fact its a bit of a hole Tottenham has got a lot of potentials, I know some hipsters are moving up from "gentrified Hackney" already.
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What
There is no point, and to be honest I can see why opposition fans won’t give a shit about the stadium. I’d say you will see a few saying it’s great etc, but there is no way I expect fans, especially United fans to give us a reach around and a happy ending.
We’re doing well in the league so far, just beat them 0-3, the Spurs thread is dead so the stadium is an easy pop. It’s football I don’t really mind as I see it for what it is, just football *banter*.
I can just smell the envy here. Not only do Spurs have a better manager, striker and team, they'll also have a better stadium.
No in all seriousness though, can people stop trying to portray Spurs having a brand new stadium as a bad thing? Spurs are moving from an old outdated 33000 seater stadium to a modern iconic biggest club stadium in London. It will be the envy of other clubs in the country. It will establish Spurs as a proper player off the field, (they already are on the field). There isn't a single negative aspect of it which you guys can try to spin. Seriously, I think Levy and the club have done the maths and worked out that it will make Spurs much more money than they currently earn. Otherwise why would they spend £1 billion on it?
And even taking away the financials of it, as just a fan pure and simple, as a ST holder. Am I really bothered about the profit and loss account? I get to watch my team in a brilliant new stadium we call home on the site of old WHL. It's mega exciting times. Nothing else really matters.
There is no point, and to be honest I can see why opposition fans won’t give a shit about the stadium. I’d say you will see a few saying it’s great etc, but there is no way I expect fans, especially United fans to give us a reach around and a happy ending.
We’re doing well in the league so far, just beat them 0-3, the Spurs thread is dead so the stadium is an easy pop. It’s football I don’t really mind as I see it for what it is, just football *banter*.
Most people who go and watch spurs will be season ticket holders. They will arrive 5 mins before the start, and often leave prior to end of the match.
I live in London, and go to a few football matches there, but lots and lots of gigs. No one cares about anything other than the event. A significant proportion of the audience leave before the end to ensure travel is ok - getting home is what’s on people’s minds during the last 20 mins. You might get a few day trippers who turn up early, but you won’t ever do it twice.
At OT, I think I’ve probably bought some chips a couple of times, a programme or two when I was a kid and visited the museum a couple of times in 30 years - I go for the football, and then want to get home the quickest and easiest way afterwards.
At the Olympic Stadium, which is designed so that you can go through Westfield, gets barely any extra traffic on event days, with the exception of McDonald’s, M&S (sandwiches) or KFC. All the event traffic is routed round the shops. The only people at the shops, are the people who wanted to go shopping anyway.
Shops near a stadium must see a drop in customers?
I won't go near Urmston RP, Trafford centre or White city if there is a game on (unless I'm going past them to the game).
Maybe not, but online shopping is continuing to steal customers from outlets, other than food retailers, to such an extent, they're closing in droves.
I won't go near Urmston RP, Trafford centre or White city if there is a game on (unless I'm going past them to the game).
Maybe not, but online shopping is continuing to steal customers from outlets, other than food retailers, to such an extent, they're closing in droves.
A bit off topic but yeah very sad to our high streets dying, all that will be left are pound stores, charity shops. Government really needs to do something.
I was being facetious. Glastons vision of the stadium is the fairytale land beyond the magic mirror that none will want to leave, where the bigger the club merchandise shop is the more merchandise will be sold, where die hard fans devotedly perform extreme sports as their pre game routine, where an endless stream of starry eyed visitors from far and wide leave their stadion hotel to shop at White Hart Lane, perambulating the sky walk before buying a day pass for the health centre as warmup for watching whichever of NFL or spurs are playing. Then they catch a matinee screening at the stadium cinema after the game. Then they go home and tell friends and family "let me tell you about this place called New White Hart Lane where we spent our holidays..."
Glaston seems to genuinely think they are building the footballing equivalent of Disneyworld.
This is pretty much the overwhelming message from the Spurs fans in here. The skywalk, the extreme sports centre, the NFL pitch...they're investing all this time and money in it, so it must make money. That's so detached from the reality of how huge construction projects work. They don't have a crystal ball. Levy's a shrewd businessman and it seems reasonable to assume he surrounded himself with clever people in this process, so embracing the idea that it might go exactly to plan isn't a ridiculous position to take. However the subject of the OP has already established in concrete terms that they have gotten some things wrong - and it's one of the only things that we have any good information about yet.
The things they got wrong are fairly typical, but that's the point. They make projections and estimations based on flawed information and subjective judgement. They think the events might bring in a pretty significant revenue stream, but that prediction is based on all kinds of variables that they have very little certainty about. It's entirely possible they'll get far fewer events booked or far lower footfall at the mini-venues than expected, or the NFL premise fails to take off in the way they hope it will, and it ends up looking a lot less glorious than Glaston's portrayal. There's nothing wrong with having faith in these people but that's all this is.
The reality is no-one really cares about new stadiums other than their own fans. There's nothing iconic about it, nothing magical, nothing jealousy-inspiring. It's just nice for you guys. I've been to the Emirates a few times and walked by it a couple of days ago while out grabbing some food, and the most I've thought about it is "yeah, it's pretty nice". It's an entirely forgettable thing.
I stated what's in your last paragraph a few times an 100% agree with it. As for the rest only thing we can do is speculate that A) it will fail to generate the income desired or B) that it will generate the income desired. Considering the stadium isn't even open yet I think were all just talking a lot of pooh, i.e. some people will want the stadium to crash and burn and take us with it or it will be a success and allow us to move up a level. As with most things football, its all opinions, and this one is getting very boring. Its a very different stadium to others in a UK so we just have to wait and see if the other activities in the stadium bring people in.
It wasn’t aimed at you rather @GlastonSpur.
I went on a corporate trip to Chelsea recently, and they have a pub outside the stadium, but part of the grounds, that was open all week - this season they closed it to the public as no one actually went there. People go to watch football, nothing else. Income from match revenue is becoming less relevant due to the TV money. Grounds only generate money for 20-30 days per year.
When you go to Spain, you go on tours of Barcelona and Madrid, you don’t go to Valencia or Ath Madrid - only Spurs fans are going to go to the stadium, watch the match and leave on the 85th minute. It’s London, there are a thousand things non-spurs fans and tourists would rather do. If they are going to a stadium, it’s Wembley, Olympic Stadium or Twickenham - doesn’t matter how shiny it is.
It’s going to be amazing for Spurs fans, no doubt about that, but the wider impact is overstated.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there, people only go on match day because apart from a tour there is nothing else to do. Levy with our stadium has incorporated a lot of other things in order to get people in everyday, not just match going Tottenham fans, will people go for a family day out that wouldn't go just for football? That's where the answer will be and as of yet no one knows.
I don't think anyone is doing that?
I think it's great when smaller clubs build themselves up the right way and invest in their future. I've a huge amount of respect for the way Spurs have gone about their business in the same way I have respect for how Arsenal, Brentford and Burnley have built up their clubs without relying on oil tycoons and dirty money.
Having a new stadium is not a bad thing. But neither is it some revolutionary concept that the rest of the footballing world should kneel down before in envy and awe of. I've never met fans who love spouting self-indulgent nonsense more than Spurs fans and it's okay for other fans to call them out on it. Spurs are still a small club and until they can take advantage of seasons like 2016 when all the actual big sides underperform - no stadium, shopping mall or NFL game is going to change that.
Ok I will bite, we aren't an elite club yet but why do you think we are small? What are you basing this on? Silverware? Revenue? Recent form? Following? In your eyes is anyone no on similar standing to Yourself just simply small?
You did bite, he was just trying to wind you up. Someone will start talking about tiers/ ceilings/ elite blah blah shortly.
Not much winds me up tbh but that does, just simple elitist nonsense with either a lack of footballing knowledge or simple wummery.
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I'm afraid you're mistaken. You need to check the year in which the football league was actually created.
Wiki: "Since the creation of The Football League, Tottenham Hotspur is the only non-league "giant-killer" to win the Cup"