Spurs 2018/19

Cold Fusion said:
And this is one of the reasons I like Poch (and Klopps) approach. There is a decent mix of big-game players and talent being brought through the ranks. This, to me, is an ideal way to manage a squad which will have the right combination of ability to be cut-throat, and the longevity of establishing a team ethic. It also is a great way to keep the recruitment costs down :)

I'd be interested on your view of the league positioning this year. What do you think will be the differentiator between Liverpool & Tottenham this year for you to think Spurs will finish above Liverpool? BTW I'm not disagreeing, but would like to hear your reasoning as to why. I think it's too early to tell ATM, and think it could be any one of a number of clubs in the running. It does make for a fascinating season in the offing though :)
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It's definitely too early to tell. It really depends on how the fixtures pile up, how far each team goes in the CL etc, and who avoids injury and who doesn't. I mean if we lost Kane it would be a huge blow, likewise if you lost VVD or Salah how would you cope? I do think VVD is the one you really need to avoid injury. He is the one who holds your defence together, whereas Spurs have three quality CBs and could cope without Toby or Jan as long as the other stayed fit.

I don't think there is anything between the two sides, fine margins, whoever finishes above the other will need a bit of luck, and I am sure both teams will be challenging at the top end of the table come May. I'd say I am cautiously optimistic at the moment, but it's still far too early. I guess the key differentiator would be I'm a Spurs fan :) What do you think? Why do you think Liverpool will finish above Spurs?
 
Levy are you watching?

70 million for Alderweireld!

July 2019 we will sign him for 20 million

Cheers
 
Primativ said:
It's definitely too early to tell. It really depends on how the fixtures pile up, how far each team goes in the CL etc, and who avoids injury and who doesn't. I mean if we lost Kane it would be a huge blow, likewise if you lost VVD or Salah how would you cope? I do think VVD is the one you really need to avoid injury. He is the one who holds your defence together, whereas Spurs have three quality CBs and could cope without Toby or Jan as long as the other stayed fit.

I don't think there is anything between the two sides, fine margins, whoever finishes above the other will need a bit of luck, and I am sure both teams will be challenging at the top end of the table come May. I'd say I am cautiously optimistic at the moment, but it's still far too early. I guess the key differentiator would be I'm a Spurs fan :) What do you think? Why do you think Liverpool will finish above Spurs?
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I agree with all of this, although based on Saturday's performance, Joe Gomez seems to be stepping up to the plate, so we now have three quality centre-backs.

To be honest I don’t actually think Liverpool will finish above Spurs. I think the six teams vying at the top all have the quality to come first/second, and it really will be down to factors outside of the teams control, such as injuries, fixture pileup, decisions etc. This could be the difference between 1st & 4th.
 
Spurs were absolute pants on Sunday - worst performance I've seen for ages. Pretty bloody frustrating and not sure why Poch changed the system. It didn't work.
 
Awwwww.... Liverpool and Tottenham fans wondering aloud who's closer to winning things in the thread...

With the end consensus being;

"Whoever gets knocked out of the cups last, will end up finishing above the other"

Way to set some lofty goals lads.

Our manager gets destroyed for not finishing above the statistically best PL side ever. Your managers get a free ride for continuing the same levels of non success that the last 2-4 decades brought.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Our manager gets destroyed for not finishing above the statistically best PL side ever. Your managers get a free ride for continuing the same levels of non success that the last 2-4 decades brought.
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Not quite sure that's 100% correct. MUFC have always been challenging for the title so there is an expectation for Man Utd U to compete for the title. I also don't think the negative press on Mourinho is solely down to league position last year. The quality of the football, some poor cup performances & results (I'm thinking Sevilla particularly), and his general demeanor have made him a bit of a target with the Press, who love to knock people of their pedestal (rightly or wrongly).

It's only been that last few years that Liverpool and Spurs have looked like becoming contenders, so there's less of an expectation on them at the moment. Both have made progression to close the gap to Man Utd, and I think that's why there's less pressure on the managers at the moment (plus they generally have less controversial press conferences which drum up headlines). I don't think that will be the case for much longer though as they are now at Man Utd's level and need to be seen to challenge.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Awwwww.... Liverpool and Tottenham fans wondering aloud who's closer to winning things in the thread...

With the end consensus being;

"Whoever gets knocked out of the cups last, will end up finishing above the other"

Way to set some lofty goals lads.

Our manager gets destroyed for not finishing above the statistically best PL side ever. Your managers get a free ride for continuing the same levels of non success that the last 2-4 decades brought.
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Eh? What idiot said that? Great job by the way on picking out one post (was there even a post that said that?) and slapping that crap onto every single one of us as if we all think like that particular person.
 
balaks said:
Spurs were absolute pants on Sunday - worst performance I've seen for ages. Pretty bloody frustrating and not sure why Poch changed the system. It didn't work.
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Didn't you play 3 at the back alot last season with success? Am I imagining that? Is there something different going on when you've shifted to that formation this season that wasn't happening previously?
 
The truth is despite the 3-0 at Old Trafford that didn’t really tell the story of the match or the narrative that Spurs are better than United and United are In crisis.
Essentially Spurs took their chances but United played well & were on balance the better team.
 
Their centerbacks were terrible on set pieces, but in open play I thought they were okay. The more pressing problems have been the defensive midfield and fullback positions, Watford constantly broke through on the sides.

Why just Dembele to protect the defense? Seems like an odd fit.

I also think Spurs may have to invest into a new LB in the near future to reach the next level. The other positions in the team can barely be upgraded, but that is the one which still offers that possibility.
 
Don Alfredo said:
Their centerbacks were terrible on set pieces, but in open play I thought they were okay. The more pressing problems have been the defensive midfield and fullback positions, Watford constantly broke through on the sides.

Why just Dembele to protect the defense? Seems like an odd fit.

I also think Spurs may have to invest into a new LB in the near future to reach the next level. The other positions in the team can barely be upgraded, but that is the one which still offers that possibility.
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Poch fecked up big time, bring on Victor or Dier and hold the lead. Davies had a poor game but it doesn't happen very often.
 
Don Alfredo said:
Their centerbacks were terrible on set pieces, but in open play I thought they were okay. The more pressing problems have been the defensive midfield and fullback positions, Watford constantly broke through on the sides.

Why just Dembele to protect the defense? Seems like an odd fit.

I also think Spurs may have to invest into a new LB in the near future to reach the next level. The other positions in the team can barely be upgraded, but that is the one which still offers that possibility.
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I think the weakening of both our fullback positions has been a big issue for us. Walker/Rose at their best were a huge asset, they both pinned back teams with their athleticism/speed (Walker is easily the best RWB in the league) and whilst Trippier/Davies is a solid combo, it just doesn't offer the same protection to our defenders, nor put fear in opposition defenders. Unfortunately Rose is done because of injuries and Walker obviously left..

Trippier is overrated because of a very good WC. He has a fantastic delivery but is average in every other area, wide players with genuine speed turn him inside out. It's been the case for a while, and in an attacking sense whilst some of his deliveries are sublime, he simply doesn't open up defences in the way that Walker did, they were constantly frightened due to his speed. Davies again is a solid LB, good delivery, reliable .. but top level wingers can and have got at him, and going forward Rose at his best offered so much more threat.

I think the issue is that it's clearly not an emergency, both Trippier & Davies are good, reliable fullbacks, some of the better ones in the league. I do hope though that we start phasing out Aurier/Rose in the near future though, and try to bring in some proper competition.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Poch fecked up big time, bring on Victor or Dier and hold the lead. Davies had a poor game but it doesn't happen very often.
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I was surprised he went with 3 at the back after it didn't really work against Fulham, maybe to match Watford?

He made his changes far, far too late, we had a bit of pressure in the last 5 minutes or so but he was nowhere near proactive enough. Against Fulham it was the opposite, he saw the formation was starting to get exposed, switched to a back 4 and we took back control. Winks looked good when he came in but he didn't have enough time to properly influence the result.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I was surprised he went with 3 at the back after it didn't really work against Fulham, maybe to match Watford?

He made his changes far, far too late, we had a bit of pressure in the last 5 minutes or so but he was nowhere near proactive enough. Against Fulham it was the opposite, he saw the formation was starting to get exposed, switched to a back 4 and we took back control. Winks looked good when he came in but he didn't have enough time to properly influence the result.
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Yeah could be a massive season for Winks if he can get fit, Dembele has hos pro points but he is so slow moving the ball on.
 
I’d take a draw against them if you offered it right now. They completely exposed us last season, although our defence has improved since then.

I’m shocked they switched off on two set pieces like that. Really unlike them and they struggled to cope when Watford increased the tempo in the second half.
 
It was pretty evident something wasn’t right yesterday but you can’t help but wonder why Pochettino was flat after the 3-0 win.
Ok Jose has been pretty vocal about players coming in but because the same sort of statements aren’t coming out of Spurs it doesn’t mean that the same concern doesn’t apply

From front to back yesterday Spurs were poor and that was on the back of poor performances at Newcastle, not so great performance against Fulham and yes a win at OT but as most will agree the score truly flattered Spurs.

All this about not being able to improve on a first 11 would suggest players like Kane, Ali and Erickson can’t be dropped that in itself is one thing but when you include the likes of Tripper& Dembele then that becomes an issue.

Spurs players have done well over the last few years but the fact remains that they still haven’t won anything for an long time and without true competition for places most would argue that the time to add to a squad is not just when things aren’t going well.
 
balaks said:
Spurs were absolute pants on Sunday - worst performance I've seen for ages. Pretty bloody frustrating and not sure why Poch changed the system. It didn't work.
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What was Watford’s gameplan? Their line up suggests they pkay without wingers?
 
Just watched the Watford game, lots of possession for Spurs, too bad they cannot defend set pieces. Is it every goal scored against them this season has been from a set piece?

Watford looked hungrier, the crowd were fantastic the whole game, even when they went 0-1 down. Spurs' goal was scrappy and lucky, but you wouldnt of argued at that point in the game they were good for it. After the goal Watford were the better side hands down until maybe the last 5-10mins when they started to tire.

Spurs won only 37% of their aerial duels, had more shots, with less on target than Watford and didnt really do a lot with 66% possession. Although the tactics were a bit odd to me, trying to fire in crosses and long balls to Moura who is about 5'5. I can understand the 3CB's, just not firing in crosses and long balls to Moura. Dembele was good for about 60mins, I think that is all you are going to get out of him these days, and at that, only once per week.

Spurs really needed to invest money in some drive/creativity in midfield, move Dembele and Sissoko on. Winks, for me, is a bit of a sick note, but provides something different in that midfield area. They have two very defensive midfielders in Dier/Wanyama but little else in midfield unless Eriksen or Alli drop back into that space.

Watford were good all over the park, Deeney, Cathcart, or Holebas for mom, Spurs hard to pick a best player, maybe Trippier or Moura, although Moura really started to tire late on in the game.
 
::sonny:: said:
Levy are you watching?

70 million for Alderweireld!

July 2019 we will sign him for 20 million

Cheers
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Yeah, Levy and Spurs is a bit screwed next summer. On the other hand they will be able to use him this season. We will not save any relevant amount money on signing Aldeweireld next summer though. His total cost (wages, sign-on, bonuses + 25m transfer fee) will be essentially the same as now, maybe a little bit less because he will be one year older; but not because he is out of contract.

The difference between Aldeweirelds market value and the 25m release fee will be pocketed by Aldeweireld himself and his agent in higher wages and sign-on fees next summer. His being out of contract doesnt mean he will come any cheaper for the buying club.

I made this point in the Aldeweireld thread as well: The reason that Aldeweireld did not join United this summer might very well be that he didnt want to flinch from the payday he and his agent knew was coming next summer and was happy to stay at Spurs waiting for this. Combined with Levy demanding the alleged 50-70m it would have meant a hell of an investment for United in total (much more than reported even) and in such case I get even more why Ed didnt proceed with the transfer.

The case with Aldeweireld is very much an allocation issue of money between him and Spurs. The total cost/investment for him will not be very different for the buying club next summer. Be it United or someone else.

This is also why a transfer in January seem even more unlikely.
 
Klopper76 said:
I’d take a draw against them if you offered it right now. They completely exposed us last season, although our defence has improved since then.

I’m shocked they switched off on two set pieces like that. Really unlike them and they struggled to cope when Watford increased the tempo in the second half.
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Probably one of the worst performances I can remember in the Poch era tbh. Did very little in an attacking sense, 'controlled' the game in the first half with pointless possession and then switched off at the important moments and ended up getting bullied by Watford, something that doesn't happen that often anymore.

3 at the back wasn't a disaster, Poch has often gone 3 at the back vs Watford but he wasn't proactive enough in changing things for me when it was clear that things weren't working.

Still, overall a decent start to the season and with quite a few players coming back still.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I think the weakening of both our fullback positions has been a big issue for us. Walker/Rose at their best were a huge asset, they both pinned back teams with their athleticism/speed (Walker is easily the best RWB in the league) and whilst Trippier/Davies is a solid combo, it just doesn't offer the same protection to our defenders, nor put fear in opposition defenders. Unfortunately Rose is done because of injuries and Walker obviously left..

Trippier is overrated because of a very good WC. He has a fantastic delivery but is average in every other area, wide players with genuine speed turn him inside out. It's been the case for a while, and in an attacking sense whilst some of his deliveries are sublime, he simply doesn't open up defences in the way that Walker did, they were constantly frightened due to his speed. Davies again is a solid LB, good delivery, reliable .. but top level wingers can and have got at him, and going forward Rose at his best offered so much more threat.

I think the issue is that it's clearly not an emergency, both Trippier & Davies are good, reliable fullbacks, some of the better ones in the league. I do hope though that we start phasing out Aurier/Rose in the near future though, and try to bring in some proper competition.
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I actually think this is slightly overstated.

At their absolute peak, Rose and Walker are certainly more dynamic than Trippier and Davies. They're more obvious. If pushed, I'd probably go for the former two at their peak than the latter two. But I really don't think the difference is that stark and the stats don't bear out this huge difference either tbh.

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-..._won/defensive_errors/total_forward_passes#90

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-...on/fouls_committed/interceptions/blocks#total

I tried to do Walker's last season at Spurs but it won't let me do that for some reason.
 
africanspur said:
I actually think this is slightly overstated.

At their absolute peak, Rose and Walker are certainly more dynamic than Trippier and Davies. They're more obvious. If pushed, I'd probably go for the former two at their peak than the latter two. But I really don't think the difference is that stark and the stats don't bear out this huge difference either tbh.

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-..._won/defensive_errors/total_forward_passes#90

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-...on/fouls_committed/interceptions/blocks#total

I tried to do Walker's last season at Spurs but it won't let me do that for some reason.
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I don't think it's something you can judge by statistics, it's a simple eye test IMO. When we had Walker/Rose we were able to push that big higher with those two covering, and had an extra string to our bow when attacking because we had two lightning quick players out wide, teams naturally were wary of that.
 
Fair enough, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. Rose especially was quick but I don't think he did all that much with the ball in an attacking sense, even at his best. It was good to have him and Walker haring up and down the wing but ultimately, if Davies is actually more productive with the ball when he does get up, what benefit is it to just have a quicker player?
 
africanspur said:
Fair enough, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. Rose especially was quick but I don't think he did all that much with the ball in an attacking sense, even at his best. It was good to have him and Walker haring up and down the wing but ultimately, if Davies is actually more productive with the ball when he does get up, what benefit is it to just have a quicker player?
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I think Rose caused far more panic for opposition defenders than Davies. I used to play fullback, and a properly quick and agile player who you knew could terrorise you is always more fear inducing than a player like Davies, even if he is reliable and does put in a good delivery. Did Rose ever have the best end product? No, but he caused panic, he stretched defences, he drew players in.

Having those two also allows you to play a bit higher and riskier, as you know they had the recovery pace. Walker especially was great for this.
 
Anyway, our greatest issue at the moment is in midfield. Dembele is falling apart season by season, he's at best a 1 game a week man, and even then looks shot to pieces and has to be subbed. He's been one of our key players over the last few seasons so losing him is a big blow and we're currently relying on Winks (also coming back from injury) to replace him. It's a huge risk.

Our other options are Wanyama and Dier .. so hardly inspiring as they're both good ball winners and dependable but they don't offer anything in the way of invention. Wanyama too is injured every other month at the moment, and honestly I haven't seen Dier put in an impressive peformance in ages.

We NEEDED to dip in to the market and buy a central midfielder. Even if it meant overpaying. We didn't necessarily need anything else, just go in for a CM who had a bit of spark and drive so we'd be less predictable going forward. Not doing so could be detrimental to our season, we're one Dembele injury away from placing all of our hopes on Winks, it's just a ridiculous situation and is the clear weakness in our team. Every one of our rivals has better CM options than we do (Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Keita, Fabinho, Henderson, Pogba, Matic, Fred, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Gundogan ..) and possibly even Arsenal if Torreira lives up to his billing.

It's poor from the club. We have far too many midfielders who are happy to keep it simple and leave the creative burden up to somebody else. That means total over-reliance on Eriksen, who is quality but still has inconsistent patches of form and if shut out of the game we struggle badly to score.
 
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SquishyMcSquish said:
Anyway, our greatest issue at the moment is in midfield. Dembele is falling apart season by season, he's at best a 1 game a week man, and even then looks shot to pieces and has to be subbed. He's been one of our key players over the last few seasons so losing him is a big blow and we're currently relying on Winks (also coming back from injury) to replace him. It's a huge risk.

Our other options are Wanyama and Dier .. so hardly inspiring as they're both good ball winners and dependable but they don't offer anything in the way of invention. Wanyama too is injured every other month at the moment, and honestly I haven't seen Dier put in an impressive peformance in ages.

We NEEDED to dip in to the market and buy a central midfielder. Even if it meant overpaying. We didn't necessarily need anything else, just go in for a CM who had a bit of spark and drive so we'd be less predictable going forward. Not doing so could be detrimental to our season, we're one Dembele injury away from placing all of our hopes on Winks, it's just a ridiculous situation and is the clear weakness in our team. Every one of our rivals has better CM options than we do (Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Keita, Fabinho, Henderson, Pogba, Matic, Fred, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Gundogan ..) and possibly even Arsenal if Torreira lives up to his billing.

It's poor from the club. We have far too many midfielders who are happy to keep it simple and leave the creative burden up to somebody else. That means total over-reliance on Eriksen, who is quality but still has inconsistent patches of form and if shut out of the game we struggle badly to score.
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Poch messed up against Watford, again with his slow subs and letting the other team back in. Both Dier and Victor on the bench was tactically thick.
 
InLevyITrust said:
Poch messed up against Watford, again with his slow subs and letting the other team back in. Both Dier and Victor on the bench was tactically thick.
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I agree, but he needs better options. We are badly lacking a midfielder who can pick it up and bring it forward other than Winks, and Poch is obviously looking to bring him back in slowly.
 
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