#Southgate@MUFC
Southgate deserves another few tournaments.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
They let him down? The players have carried him through the tournament and thats not even counting the previous ones. Lucky goal here, lucky goal there.
Once it got to the point of needing a decent manager, i.e against other top teams, as usual he is found out.
Absolutely!
Four more years! Pause.
Four more years! Pause.
We would have absolutely lose against Germany, France or Portugal. Because weren’t creating chances or playing anything close to what people recognise as a system of football.
Time to move on
Time to move on
How can you fire such a manager? Since Southgate became coach, England have always been on the easy side of the tournament bracket - that's an amazing achievement!
Yes England please keep him, he is doing such a great job for England. It would be such a waste to let him manage a team like Manchester United. He truly is the manager England deserves.
As an England fan we should remind ourselves how poor we have been in tournaments in the years pre-Southgate and that we would have bitten hands off if offered the outcomes he has achieved when he took the job on the back of the Iceland debacle in 2016.
To me it is obvious he has taken us as far as he can. I was personally frustrated that the FA seemingly left it up to him whether he continued after the World Cup in Qatar. It was said there would be deliberations to reflect on our exit to France but it seemed like as soon as Southgate decided he wanted to carry on then he was granted the chance to do so. I think we needed more of an inquest and to challenge Southgate more deeply on what would be required to go to the next level and to win a tournament. But alas we have just plodded on.
I do think there has been some growth from him in this tournament. I think his squad selection and plan A was not right and he’s had to try and fix that as we’ve gone through which has not been ideal. He’s been a bit bolder on making changes game by game and braver with his substitutions in the later rounds. However, I think the draw was kind to us and the failure of plan A easily could have been punished with an early exit and almost was but for Bellingham’s goal.
I do think he has made some really positive improvements during his time in the role. Things that we probably now take for granted such as:
Southgate should rightly go down as an England legend whose story arc began in ‘96 as a player and almost ended with incredible redemption as a manager.
To me it is obvious he has taken us as far as he can. I was personally frustrated that the FA seemingly left it up to him whether he continued after the World Cup in Qatar. It was said there would be deliberations to reflect on our exit to France but it seemed like as soon as Southgate decided he wanted to carry on then he was granted the chance to do so. I think we needed more of an inquest and to challenge Southgate more deeply on what would be required to go to the next level and to win a tournament. But alas we have just plodded on.
I do think there has been some growth from him in this tournament. I think his squad selection and plan A was not right and he’s had to try and fix that as we’ve gone through which has not been ideal. He’s been a bit bolder on making changes game by game and braver with his substitutions in the later rounds. However, I think the draw was kind to us and the failure of plan A easily could have been punished with an early exit and almost was but for Bellingham’s goal.
I do think he has made some really positive improvements during his time in the role. Things that we probably now take for granted such as:
- our defensive organisation and consistency. Tough to beat in knockout football
- Culture and mentality
- Squad harmony
- Strong on the basics like set pieces
- Not melting if it goes to penalties, winning 3 shootouts
- Making our superiority count with big scores against smaller nations like Panama, Iran in tournaments
- Reconnecting with the fans and media, making us likeable again
- Prioritising team balance and shape over big name players - called time on Rooney and others
Southgate should rightly go down as an England legend whose story arc began in ‘96 as a player and almost ended with incredible redemption as a manager.
Would be nice to see an England team play good football. Those 35-45 minutes in that first half against the Netherlands was maybe the only time I've seen that (I could be forgetting a game or two in the last 20 or so years).
How do some of you not realise you're being (mercilessly) wound up?! 
He’s Englands perfect manager. He plays football so ugly, that no one could ever enjoy it. He’s just successful enough to get people to believe they might win and he’s clueless enough to reliably lose in the end. He’s awesome.
On a serious note, when did it become commonplace for the BBC to try and sack managers? Gary Lineker even said after the game that Southgate would probably never manage anyone again.
Man, this cut so deep.
Southgate and the FAI - a perfect match?
It'll be funny when someone else takes over and loses against an Argentina or France in the 2nd round of the World Cup.
Southgate got England to the final in spite of the players, not because of them.
Nah England need to move on. He deserves credit again for going so far unlike most previous England managers. Nonetheless, it's just next level defensive. Basically dirge unless you're 1-0 down. Then as soon as you equalise it's back to dirge.
So many managers would've gone for it after the equaliser yesterday, there was a really feeling in the air of the tide turning that he just killed dead. You're always going to get found out by a top team when you do that, Spain just went again and scored again. Similar things at previous tournaments. Southgate has made people believe again and put England back as a contender for major tournaments, but that defensive style will always get found out and there must be somebody who can take that ridiculously talented squad to the next level.
So many managers would've gone for it after the equaliser yesterday, there was a really feeling in the air of the tide turning that he just killed dead. You're always going to get found out by a top team when you do that, Spain just went again and scored again. Similar things at previous tournaments. Southgate has made people believe again and put England back as a contender for major tournaments, but that defensive style will always get found out and there must be somebody who can take that ridiculously talented squad to the next level.
Two finals and a penalty kick away from winning one of those. They say he had the easy draws but they were easy because England made them look easy. Lost 1 game all tournament. Bought harmony to the group by introducing them to board games.
Second most successful manager in the team's history. A top bloke.
He deserves one more chance at the very least.
Second most successful manager in the team's history. A top bloke.
He deserves one more chance at the very least.
No, they got him there. This team exceeds the managers ability by miles and he is out of his depth.
They beat teams they should be because the players were better and yet it still took luck and individual moments of brilliance.
When it came to playing a team where the manager also had to count, such as selection, tactics, game management - Southgate failed and frooze....again.
Give me examples of where Gareth got THEM to the final as you claim.
Should be no where near the England team come the next round of friendlies.
Hello from Scotland?
Last night and in 2021. He's done wonders with such an average group of players. He deserves another chance. #4moreyears
Croatia lost 3-0 in a game they created almost 3 xG within. England could have created a lot more xG playing basketball style football.
Pathetic WUM…. 2/10
controversial view from a neutral here. Harry Kane cost Southgate this, i have never seen a striker who is so averse to getting into the box. At one stage he had Foden, Mainoo, Bellingham and Saka all ahead of him for a cross coming in, mad stuff from a no9. Maybe he was carrying an injury but captain fantastic deserves some criticism here (you wont get it on BBC or ITV though).
Give him until 2066, he'll win the centenary cup with a 70 year old Harry Kane still ambling about up front.
Lineker was laying into Kane on matchday 1 to be fair. Southgate was even asked whether it was difficult to get a tune out of him by the BBC after the final.
I think Kane was pretty clearly carrying an injury all tournament and shouldn't have been picked to start the final (or any other match to be honest). And even when he's fit, it takes a lot away from his game when you don't surround him with pace.
Clearly trolling me, a heavy head is making me a bit slow this morning.
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The amount of disrespect he gets from their own fans, despite being an all-time great for them, is ridiculous. Worst set of fans in the world?
Was Kane picking himself then?
If Kane was "costing Southgate" then perhaps Southgate should have done his job and subbed him earlier or not started him at all.
It is time now for the starting 11 to be reshaped
A new first choice CB pairing established
Mainoo and Palmer have to start every game
We need to find a formation that gets TAA in the side somehow
There's a real lack of pace that needs remedying
Kane, walker, maguire, and probably Shaw given his availability have to be phased out of the first choice 11
England's best players now are in the forward positions and yet we don't create enough . We need a new coach that can start to get a tune out of them.
To give Southgate his dues he has done well in making us a lot more robust, we don't panic anymore and penalties are no longer the stuff of nightmares. The squad is clearly united and theres good continuity through the age groups. But the hardest step is the next one, there comes a point where if you want to be a big dog you have to start impressing yourselves onto the opposition. I think England are now strong enough to start doing this but Southgates safety first approach holds us back from doing so. The next guy needs to let them off the leash
A new first choice CB pairing established
Mainoo and Palmer have to start every game
We need to find a formation that gets TAA in the side somehow
There's a real lack of pace that needs remedying
Kane, walker, maguire, and probably Shaw given his availability have to be phased out of the first choice 11
England's best players now are in the forward positions and yet we don't create enough . We need a new coach that can start to get a tune out of them.
To give Southgate his dues he has done well in making us a lot more robust, we don't panic anymore and penalties are no longer the stuff of nightmares. The squad is clearly united and theres good continuity through the age groups. But the hardest step is the next one, there comes a point where if you want to be a big dog you have to start impressing yourselves onto the opposition. I think England are now strong enough to start doing this but Southgates safety first approach holds us back from doing so. The next guy needs to let them off the leash
I find it puzzling that some genuine England supporters want Southgate to continue. Of all the teams I've watched several matches of in this tournament, England has been by far the worst. Or perhaps I should say the "ugliest". They've played horrendous, completely random football for 95% of the tournament with a couple of screamers here and there which obviously have nothing to do with Southgate. If you factor in the quality of the squad it's even worse. Also, there's absolutely no chance whatsoever they would have got to the final had they been in the other side of the draw.
Grim.
Absolutely.
As long as it keeps him far away from the United job, I don't care where he goes - but having him safely under contract with England for another 20 years or so would be nice.
As long as it keeps him far away from the United job, I don't care where he goes - but having him safely under contract with England for another 20 years or so would be nice.
Yes
as long as he's not ManUnited's manager.
as long as he's not ManUnited's manager.
No way, there are a lot of better forward thinking managers out there, howe, potter or even potch.
He should have won Euro 2020. Home advantage and the opposition were weaker than this years Spanish side. He wouldn't let the breaks off that night though and it ended up costing us. It felt like he played thinking our best chance was a 50/50 shoot out.
This final was different though, player for player we should have won in my opinion but the Spanish are so much better coached. Southgate has had 6 games to see his system wasn't working and that the players making the impact, were the players coming off the bench. Palmer should have started once it was clear he was our most creative player.
The biggest mistake of all though, playing a clearly unfit Kane. Watkins and Toney were both chomping at the bit to make and impact, Kane will take his golden boot and believe he's had a good tournament, when i reality he held us back in a similar manner to Ronaldo and Portugal.
This final was different though, player for player we should have won in my opinion but the Spanish are so much better coached. Southgate has had 6 games to see his system wasn't working and that the players making the impact, were the players coming off the bench. Palmer should have started once it was clear he was our most creative player.
The biggest mistake of all though, playing a clearly unfit Kane. Watkins and Toney were both chomping at the bit to make and impact, Kane will take his golden boot and believe he's had a good tournament, when i reality he held us back in a similar manner to Ronaldo and Portugal.
This is a pretty silly post really.
Southgate gets a huge amount of respect from England fans, he's done a great job breaking down the club rivalries and fostering a team atmosphere, but he's been unable to grow beyond his limitations as a coach which has meant that, despite a collection of very talented players, England will consistently go out of tournaments to the big boys under his management. Therefore it's time to move on.
I find it hard to believe that Palmer v Spain has a lower XG than the Bellingham scissor kick.
I was celebrating as soon as the ball was laid back to Cole.
Exactly this. He plays to avoid defeat. Spain play to win.