Sorry, but why is Rashford rated here? (Read the context)

I rate Rashford, but he obviously dropped off in the latter part of last season, but was also carrying some injuries or something just wasn't right with him. I do think he needs to work harder at times and also he tends to slow down play too much. A little development of his left foot would help as well as he almost without fail tries to move the ball to his right foot to force a shot. He's quite easy to defend when he stops the ball and looks to get it on his right foot. He's much more dangerous when he keeps the speed of play high and keeps more options open when taking on defenders, very good. Would also help if he could find any sort of performance playing on the RW to provide more options going forward.

Don't think ST is his best position, to me it's clearly LW. Hope he takes the time this off-season to get fit, even if it means missing the first part of the season.
 
8thWonder said:
Of course it's embarrassing. No need to devalue Mbappe and Morata, especially to credit Rashford, absoutely no point.

However I'm genuinely mystified that anyone could think he's not an incredibly gifted footballer. Yeah fine if you think his forms dipped or if you question whether he'll be world class. But to think he's not good enough for us after what he's done already while getting better is mind boggling to me.

He's absolutely as good as Ole and he thinks they are and obviously a whole lot better than a proportion of our fans think he is.
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Oh don't get me wrong, I definitely feel he's good enough to be here as he's a very good player. I just feel that now he should be in a position to fight for his position and if other players are in better form he shouldn't be above being on the bench.

Ole has made him an untouchable player since taking over and that privilege should is reserved for the true greats of this club IMO and Rashford is not there yet.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Feel for OP. Regulars know when this was made and why - a reference to his rather lacklustre, by his standards, second half of the season (injuries, overplaying, etc).

Everybody else is context-less, living in an ever hyper present, attention starved, and probably unable to make decent pasta.
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Its all good :) I did make sure I added the context in the OP considering there were posters that thought that this thread was made after the debacle against Italy. Fixed.

i don’t believe in ‘untouchable’ players, unless you’re of the exceptional category of the legends of the game. Every player regardless of ‘status’ outside of the pitch ought to be judged by certain standards, with the minimalisation of emotional attachment.

lingard was touted as a ‘talent’ and still is by some even at age 28. At some point there is a cut off point to objectively point out wether a player reached his potential.If not, that would defeat the purpose of any performance thread.

I’m aware that discussing Rashford right now is like a wesp nest, but frankly, I don’t mind. I’ve also mentioned Martial and Lindelof in the OP of this thread but that seems to be forgotten too.
 
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Vidyoyo said:
Feel for OP. Regulars know when this was made and why - a reference to his rather lacklustre, by his standards, second half of the season (injuries, overplaying, etc).

Everybody else is context-less, living in an ever hyper present, attention starved, and probably unable to make decent pasta.
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Some here don't even read threads. They just reply on the thread title.
 
padzilla said:
If we don't rate Marcus Rashford, a local kid who has scored 88 goals for Manchester United by the age of 23, who do we rate?
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some 17 year old French kid who's scored a couple of goals for a no-name French club and has a banging youtube compilation video.
 
There is no perfect player. Is Rashford frustrating at times? Yes. Does he miss easy chances at times? Yes. But if he’s not world class, he’s very close to it. Is he one of the top 10 left sided forwards in the world? I think so…

Ronaldo
Sterling
Neymar
Sane
Rashford
Son
Coman
Griezmann (sort of)
Hazard (18 months ago)
Sancho (LF and RF)

You could argue that Ronaldo is more of a 9 now… Those aren’t in order, just a list. For me, I’d take Neymar and Son over Rashy, but he’s third for me. Considering his youth, he probably is the most valuable, or at least close to Neymar.

I doubted him once, but although he’s not perfect, he’s a top drawer LF. Sancho is excellent as LF and RF. I guess we’ll be playing him on the right.
 
PieCrust said:
Don't think ST is his best position, to me it's clearly LW. Hope he takes the time this off-season to get fit, even if it means missing the first part of the season.
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This surely what is bound to happen?
Rashford has been carrying some kind of shoulder/upper body injury for sometime... why? He clearly wasn't on top form for the last few games of the season and he has hardly got a look in at the Euro's except to be used as cannon fodder for Southgate's last minute gamble.

So the question is why has this happened?
Did Marcus keep telling Ole and Southgate "I'm OK to play boss" and they took him at his word even when he was nowhere near his best?
Did the medical specialists at United, and with England, with all their 'whizz-bang' modern technical gizzmo's fail to find the problem, let alone treat it?

Just what is going on?
Virtually everyone posting on here have at some point when talking about Rashford made reference to him not being fully fit, that is for almost a quarter of the season and a whole one month tournament; what is going on if we supporters can spot this, but the managers and sports health specialists cannot?
 
It worries me that after the England bvs Italy game we talk about how tactically Italy are better, with smarter players who keep the ball better, and focus on the team, not individuals and yet when we talk about players we focus on their goals.

Nothing changes.
 
I really think injuries are taking a toll, and on top of that he's lost all confidence. I predict that he'll lose his place to Greenwood permanently soon.
 
Maticmaker said:
This surely what is bound to happen?
Rashford has been carrying some kind of shoulder/upper body injury for sometime... why? He clearly wasn't on top form for the last few games of the season and he has hardly got a look in at the Euro's except to be used as cannon fodder for Southgate's last minute gamble.

So the question is why has this happened?
Did Marcus keep telling Ole and Southgate "I'm OK to play boss" and they took him at his word even when he was nowhere near his best?
Did the medical specialists at United, and with England, with all their 'whizz-bang' modern technical gizzmo's fail to find the problem, let alone treat it?

Just what is going on?
Virtually everyone posting on here have at some point when talking about Rashford made reference to him not being fully fit, that is for almost a quarter of the season and a whole one month tournament; what is going on if we supporters can spot this, but the managers and sports health specialists cannot?
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I suppose the tight schedule since the ending of 2019/20 season and the 2020/21 season didn't help with the decision between being out for a few month after getting the surgery or playing on with the injury which meant playing at ~80-90% of your capacity and wait for a break in football (I think this break i.e. end of Euros to season start is the longest break in the last 1.5 years). Additionally, for Rashford, personally, getting a surgery in the middle of the season and risking missing out on Euros must have been a big decision point as well.
 
Maticmaker said:
This surely what is bound to happen?
Rashford has been carrying some kind of shoulder/upper body injury for sometime... why? He clearly wasn't on top form for the last few games of the season and he has hardly got a look in at the Euro's except to be used as cannon fodder for Southgate's last minute gamble.

So the question is why has this happened?
Did Marcus keep telling Ole and Southgate "I'm OK to play boss" and they took him at his word even when he was nowhere near his best?
Did the medical specialists at United, and with England, with all their 'whizz-bang' modern technical gizzmo's fail to find the problem, let alone treat it?

Just what is going on?
Virtually everyone posting on here have at some point when talking about Rashford made reference to him not being fully fit, that is for almost a quarter of the season and a whole one month tournament; what is going on if we supporters can spot this, but the managers and sports health specialists cannot?
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I’ve read that United staff advised Rashford not to go to the Euro’s in order to recover. Its the same reason why Greenwood pulled out. If we talk about the chronological order, it is reported that Rashford had shoulder issues since November.

Rashford is also quoted saying:
Elsewhere, ESPN quoted Rashford saying he’s not quite sure whether he’ll need surgery on his shoulder.

If it isn’t an injury which has to be operated on, the other option is that it needs a rest. However, how much rest will he be able to get, considering that the manager would want to ideally have fit players when the season starts. wouldn’t it be better to get surgery and then heal during the start of the season rather then taking a chance not to and then risk becoming worse?
 
padzilla said:
If we don't rate Marcus Rashford, a local kid who has scored 88 goals for Manchester United by the age of 23, who do we rate?
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McTominay is rated higher than Rashford generally among united supporters. People have their favorites for their own reasons I guess. It's not all purely performance related. I'd say most of it isn't
 
Amarsdd said:
I suppose the tight schedule since the ending of 2019/20 season and the 2020/21 season didn't help with the decision between being out for a few month after getting the surgery or playing on with the injury which meant playing at ~80-90% of your capacity and wait for a break in football (I think this break i.e. end of Euros to season start is the longest break in the last 1.5 years). Additionally, for Rashford, personally, getting a surgery in the middle of the season and risking missing out on Euros must have been a big decision point as well.
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Surely its a decision that has to be agreed with his employers, especially with the Manager, in this day and age it cannot be left solely to the player?
Ole is constantly telling us that the team /squad is improving, finishing second and getting to a final is some sort of proof of that, but if next season we are missing one of our potential 'match winners' (and on his game that is what Marcus is) for a big chunk of it, we will suffer, we need him for the full season. He should have had treatment before now, collectively it seems Marcus, his manager and probably the physio's as well have b**l's it up!.

LazyRed-Ninja said:
I’ve read that United staff advised Rashford not to go to the Euro’s in order to recover. Its the same reason why Greenwood pulled out. If we talk about the chronological order, it is reported that Rashford had shoulder issues since November.

Rashford is also quoted saying:
Elsewhere, ESPN quoted Rashford saying he’s not quite sure whether he’ll need surgery on his shoulder.

If it isn’t an injury which has to be operated on, the other option is that it needs a rest. However, how much rest will he be able to get, considering that the manager would want to ideally have fit players when the season starts. wouldn’t it be better to get surgery and then heal during the start of the season rather then taking a chance not to and then risk becoming worse?
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You would think so wouldn't you, especially as it seems like Marcus wanted to play in the Euro's and that might have affected things, but clearly Southgate didn't trust him enough, and really only used him as a scapegoat at the end.
 
United in sin said:
McTominay is rated higher than Rashford generally among united supporters. People have their favorites for their own reasons I guess. It's not all purely performance related. I'd say most of it isn't
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Who on Earth rates McTominay above Rashford? That's an outlandish opinion.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Feel for OP. Regulars know when this was made and why - a reference to his rather lacklustre, by his standards, second half of the season (injuries, overplaying, etc).

Everybody else is context-less, living in an ever hyper present, attention starved, and probably unable to make decent pasta.
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The OP bumped the thread with :nervous: immediately after the penalty miss so that's the context.
 
The desperste attempt to save face with the added brackets in the title doesn't work. Its still an abomination of a thread
 
Unnecessary bump to drag out presumably the OP's most replied thread or something. Doing so immediately after the penalty miss really makes it clear what the motivation for this thread was really about.
 
Ixion said:
Unnecessary bump to drag out presumably the OP's most replied thread or something. Doing so immediately after the penalty miss really makes it clear what the motivation for this thread was really about.
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Could the miss be to due to a lack of killer mentality on the highest stage. A final? Is that a possibility? If so, bumping a thread where the OP formulated the hypothese that Rashford lacks that killer mentality to become world class is justified (in my humble opinion). This is a thread discussing different perspectives with respectful and civil argumentation. Emotions do get in the way with certain posters, but that does not logically justify an argument.

Therefore I respectfully disagree with your notion that there is vile intent behind bumping it. Vile would assume that i want Rashford to fail which is absurd, id like him to become world class and carry this United team to a new succesfull area.

However that does not mean that ‘unpopular’ opinions or threads are with a vile intent by default. Players are judged according to certain standards, discussing standards is something I don’t mind doing, no matter the ‘wesp nest’ aura around it.
 
28gunsalute said:
Mate if you havent already you will be getting a warning for posts like this, I've been told off for voicing my opinion on Rashers the mods dont like the truth
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You got an automatic warning for making a number of low-quality posts. And I can see why.
 
LazyRed-Ninja said:
Could the miss be to due to a lack of killer mentality on the highest stage. A final? Is that a possibility? If so, bumping a thread where the OP formulated the hypothese that Rashford lacks that killer mentality to become world class is justified (in my humble opinion). This is a thread discussing different perspectives with respectful and civil argumentation. Emotions do get in the way with certain posters, but that does not logically justify an argument.

Therefore I respectfully disagree with your notion that there is vile intent behind bumping it. Vile would assume that i want Rashford to fail which is absurd, id like him to become world class and carry this United team to a new succesfull area.

However that does not mean that ‘unpopular’ opinions or threads are with a vile intent by default. Players are judged according to certain standards, discussing standards is something I don’t mind doing, no matter the ‘wesp nest’ aura around it.
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What about his penalty against PSG in 2019? Huge pressure, and one of the greatest moments the club has had in the past 8 years since Ferguson's retirement.
He scored with ease against Villarreal as well.
And his record in high pressure matches and situations is excellent.
Yes, he missed against Italy, but had it been perhaps a millimeter more precise, people would have been calling that one of the most cool penalties they'd ever seen.
 
Eternitiy said:
What about his penalty against PSG in 2019? Huge pressure, and one of the greatest moments the club has had in the past 8 years since Ferguson's retirement.
He scored with ease against Villarreal as well.
And his record in high pressure matches and situations is excellent.
Yes, he missed against Italy, but had it been perhaps a millimeter more precise, people would have been calling that one of the most cool penalties they'd ever seen.
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yes, the PSG penalty was a big moment.

The euro final however was bigger considering that England in its rich history and tradition of football never won this prestigious trophy. Even Rashford acknowledged his internal struggle by say

QUOTE:
‘I’ve always backed myself for a penalty, but something didn’t feel quite right.A penalty was all I’d been asked to contribute for the team. I can score penalties in my sleep, so why not that one?’

He himself is internalizing the question why he couldn’t score the penalty when according to him he can score penalties in his sleep.

with that in mind, the OP is a hypothesis in trying to explain the question that he himself is wondering about. I’m not proposing an absolute truth, I’m proposing a hypothesis which will be judged by time.
 
padzilla said:
If we don't rate Marcus Rashford, a local kid who has scored 88 goals for Manchester United by the age of 23, who do we rate?
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Hello, I notice you started a thread today which I guess was an ironic play on this one, but regarding Sir Alex Ferguson not Marcus Rashford (M.B.E), unsurprisingly it has been locked! But I got the joke....

However, a member called Horsechoker typed this: "Remember that he sold United to the Glazers because of a horse. fecking horses ruin everything..."

I don't understand that bit, can someone explain? Is it another attempt at humour/irony 'cos he is called horsechoker and his location is stated as 'the stables' or am I missing something?
 
JebelSherif said:
Hello, I notice you started a thread today which I guess was an ironic play on this one, but regarding Sir Alex Ferguson not Marcus Rashford (M.B.E), unsurprisingly it has been locked! But I got the joke....

However, a member called Horsechoker typed this: "Remember that he sold United to the Glazers because of a horse. fecking horses ruin everything..."

I don't understand that bit, can someone explain? Is it another attempt at humour/irony 'cos he is called horsechoker and his location is stated as 'the stables' or am I missing something?
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https://www.goal.com/en-ph/news/how...ake-control-of-man/15kf9x1h3xy8a1gakygb2unhd6
 
JebelSherif said:
Sorry, that link didn't work, well it did, but it just gave me loads of the latest football stories and I don't want to read any more of those thank you very much!
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Weird, as expected it brings me to an article with the following title:

How a row over a racehorse helped the Glazer family take control of Manchester United
 
Ok, I found it: https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/soc...-control-of-man-utd/kxoorixxkeis11ztstd781efz

And I've read it! This bit was interesting as Roy Keane can be relied on to say things straight: "Former club captain Roy Keane later revealed in his autobiography 'The Second Half' that he advised Ferguson to drop his case against Magnier, but to no avail.

“Somebody I met in Ireland had told me to tell him (Ferguson): 'You are not going to win this.' I mentioned it to him,” the retired Irish midfielder wrote.

“And I told him that I didn't think it was good for the club, for the manager to be in a legal dispute with the shareholders.

“I felt I was entitled to say that. He was just a mascot for them. Walking around with this Rock of Gibraltar – 'Look at me, how big I am,' – and he didn't even own the bloody thing!"

So, if this article is true, can I pose a difficult question: why was a thread that although ironic & humorous (to highlight perhaps the extreme views on this thread) locked so quickly? Because if the article is accurate and bearing in mind what happened when Man Utd. fans got a recent game called off vs Liverpool, to protest about the the Glazer's owenership, if that ownership was in any way brought about by Sir Alex Ferguson, should that not be discussed?

Or is to do so risking the modern scourge of many forums and social medias, that of 'cancel culture'?
 
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JebelSherif said:
Hello, I notice you started a thread today which I guess was an ironic play on this one, but regarding Sir Alex Ferguson not Marcus Rashford (M.B.E), unsurprisingly it has been locked!
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Funnily enough, the final post is from 'Terminator'! Mods being funny or a coincidence?
 
Eternitiy said:
Who on Earth rates McTominay above Rashford? That's an outlandish opinion.
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Fingeredmouse said:
What absolute lunacy is this?
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I'm speaking in general terms based on how I see both players assessed and treated by the fanbase.

Rashford is a pretty polarizing figure here (and in England as a whole) and is always the subject of intense scrutiny. Most fans here either rate him highly or don't rate him at all and some compare him to Welbeck. There's very little nuance when it comes to evaluating Rashford. Can you say the same about McTominay?

How many threads pop up about McTominay's individual worth to the team? Is it time yet to 'burst his bubble?'

Sure we have 'McFred' threads on this forum but McTominay generally gets a pass on here compared to Rashford especially after poor performances.

They're both academy players and McTominay is the older of the two but apparently he's still developing and could even be a future captain! Rashford was our second biggest contributor in goals last season and the CAF rated McTominay higher, and Rashford apparently is still not good enough for united despite being one of our better performers over the last few seasons.

McTominay has been rated higher than Rashford on the CAF in the player performance threads every season he's been a first team player with the exception of 2017/18 where they were tied at 5.4. Rashford has outperformed McTominay in every season he's played here. Am I wrong?
 
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United in sin said:
They're both academy players and McTominay is the older of the two but apparently he's still developing and could even be a future captain! Rashford was our second biggest contributor in goals last season and the CAF rated McTominay higher, and Rashford apparently is still not good enough for united despite being one of our better performers over the last few seasons.

McTominay has been rated higher than Rashford on the CAF in the player performance threads every season he's been a first team player with the exception of 2017/18 where they were tied at 5.4. Rashford has outperformed McTominay in every season he's played here. Am I wrong?
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There was an interesting discussion on the aftermath of the Euro 2020 final on Newsnight, on Monday night (from about 20 mins in). They replayed an interview with John Barnes from two weeks earlier when he had predicted that when a black player messed up, maybe missed a penalty, they would get a harder time than a white player, in the same situation.

Could this have something to do with what you describe? Is it an example of 'unconscious bias'?
 
JebelSherif said:
There was an interesting discussion on the aftermath of the Euro 2020 final on Newsnight, on Monday night (from about 20 mins in). They replayed an interview with John Barnes from two weeks earlier when he had predicted that when a black player messed up, maybe missed a penalty, they would get a harder time than a white player, in the same situation.

Could this have something to do with what you describe? Is it an example of 'unconscious bias'?
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It's exactly that in my opinion and it's rife not just in England and European football but in the world of professional sports
 
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United in sin said:
It's exactly that in my opinion and it's rife not just in England and European football but in the world of professional sports
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that was indeed happening before social media. There was ‘racial noise’ as I will call it here with the france team of 1998, and one of the far right people in their country even said:

‘the team were “foreigners” who didn’t know how to sing the national anthem.’ (In stead of calling them just french citizens).

Unfortunately its a problem that has been here for ages and will probably stay here for a long time. The positive thing I would argue is that with the big social media influence, its being called out frequently , so if people want to be guilty of that type of filth behavior, atleast they are paying the price for it by being exposed for it online.
 
Rashford is rated because

1) he has vista, he can spot a run and make the pass
2) he can score goals
3) he is fast
4) he is excellent without the ball, he beats the offside trap and finishes the play alone in front of the keeper
5) he is a decent dribbler but he has excellent ball control, clean and composed finishes.

Now surely someone will say he is misses lots of chances but who doesn't? Another will say he runs blindly with the ball which is true but at least he brings the ball to the opposite penalty area which I like a lot more than side way passing or backwards passing. He stretches the play because he has the confidence to do so.
 
thundercats said:
Rashford is rated because

1) he has vista, he can spot a run and make the pass
2) he can score goals
3) he is fast
4) he is excellent without the ball, he beats the offside trap and finishes the play alone in front of the keeper
5) he is a decent dribbler but he has excellent ball control, clean and composed finishes.

Now surely someone will say he is misses lots of chances but who doesn't? Another will say he runs blindly with the ball which is true but at least he brings the ball to the opposite penalty area which I like a lot more than side way passing or backwards passing. He stretches the play because he has the confidence to do so.
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He needs to move to Windows 10, Vista was a nightmare.
 
Embarrassing thread. That guy is 23 years old, and has not even reached his peak yet. He's been playing with an injury for a while and wanted to represent his country.

He seems to be an absolute brilliant young man who has done more for the kids of this country then any of us will ever do on here, and by the age of 23.

So what he missed a penalty. It won't define his football career. He'll come back stronger. Ronaldo one of the best player's ever has missed a couple in a shootout, with one being in the champions league final.
 
fergies coat said:
Embarrassing thread. That guy is 23 years old, and has not even reached his peak yet. He's been playing with an injury for a while and wanted to represent his country.

He seems to be an absolute brilliant young man who has done more for the kids of this country then any of us will ever do on here, and by the age of 23.

So what he missed a penalty. It won't define his football career. He'll come back stronger. Ronaldo one of the best player's ever has missed a couple in a shootout, with one being in the champions league final.
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Exactly. People forget what a fully fit Rashford can do. This break will do him alot of good just to recover both physically and mentally, he has had a lot to deal with over the last 18 months.

I hope he takes this time to review his game and look to improve where he can. Sometimes watching your team play, you can understand what is required from you.

I really want to see a fully fit firing Rashford, I have full faith in him to find his best form.
 
He kicks the ball in the net more than a lot of other players, perhaps?
 
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