Solskjaer's legacy and his future

Tap said:
This is very true. The endless excuses and holier than thou top red remarks from this group escalate the divide between the fans.

The same exists for our previous managers except that the Ole-in group is larger and more aggressive.

Reminds me somewhat of the movie and games industry with certain subpar titles having 2 camps pouring buckets of crap over each other.
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Absolute trash. The main problem was the ridiculous amount of abuse and bile directed towards Ole, and anyone who dared to want to give him time instead of demanding his sacking after every bad result. Now you and other outers are trying to make it out as if the non-abusive group were the problem? comedy gold.
 
shaky said:
Absolute trash. The main problem was the ridiculous amount of abuse and bile directed towards Ole, and anyone who dared to want to give him time instead of demanding his sacking after every bad result. Now you and other outers are trying to make it out as if the non-abusive group were the problem? comedy gold.
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I refer back to my previous post. These lot actually think being positive is a toxic trait FFS
 
shaky said:
Absolute trash. The main problem was the ridiculous amount of abuse and bile directed towards Ole, and anyone who dared to want to give him time instead of demanding his sacking after every bad result. Now you and other outers are trying to make it out as if the non-abusive group were the problem? comedy gold.
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I'm not going to pretend either side was innocent but some fanatics made it a habit of bumping old posts at the end of every season. Some idiots even pushed that anyone who voted ole out in the polls be banned. They are lucky no one was petty enough to do the same to their posts after he got sacked but these lot probably still need to find a new club because they were more invested in Ole's success than the club's. Even now these dimwits still stalk Ralf's tenure trying to bring him down to make Ole look good. You wouldn't know we're back in the top 4 race the way some put him down.
 
shaky said:
Absolute trash. The main problem was the ridiculous amount of abuse and bile directed towards Ole, and anyone who dared to want to give him time instead of demanding his sacking after every bad result. Now you and other outers are trying to make it out as if the non-abusive group were the problem? comedy gold.
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It's not trash even if it is half the truth. The pros and cons of Oles reign where exaggerated to such a degree from both sides that it caused a massive division among the fanbase. I think people made up their minds about Ole at an early stage and from there there was no convincing the other side of their convictions.

Looking back it really was quite childish with a lot of told you so depending on the performances of any given games from both sides and I include myself in that distinction which is why I'd be happy enough if we never gave another ex player the job unless he's there on absolute merit and not on a romantic notion that given enough time he'll be the one to take us back to the top.

As a fan we really are fickle people. Personally I want Poch to be our next manager but knowing he will divide the fanbase maybe just as much as Ole I'd swing my vote towards ETH because he seems to be the one the majority wants which would hopefully give him time to implement his ideas before the divisions start in earnest if things don't start as planned because let's face it, if Poch didn't hit the ground running it's going to turn into an us v them scenario pretty quickly.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
People saying he seemed too stressed to manage again. I thought he was very very calm in the job. One of his actual strengths. Most of this idea of based on his few days at home during the international break
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It'll be a different kettle of fish next time. Why feel stressed when you have the total backing of the board, supporters singing your name, friends in the media protecting you and the players not having a problem with your easygoingness. Other teams and supporters won't embrace failure and ineptitude the way United and it's supporters did.
 
::sonny:: said:
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I was sat roughly where that photo was taken from. He was great with the fans at Bridgwater, he must have done a couple of hundred photos and autographs before the match. Good to see him looking so happy.
 
The problem was that he spent big money on 21 year old Sancho from Germany, 18 year old Amad from Italy and 19 year old Pellistri from Uruguay.

Solskjaer could have played it safe with a bunch of 27 year olds with lots of Premier League experience. But he took the high risk high reward route instead, hoping that gambling on youth from foreign leagues would strengthen United in the long run.

The risk didn't pay off quickly enough for Ole personally. But hopefully the club can benefit from his foresight for years to come.
 
The idea that Ole was happy just to be in the job and had no ambitions beyond just staying...in the job - is ridiculous to me.

I think he knew precisely what he had to do.

He didn't have what it takes to do it, ultimately - he isn't cut from the same cloth as the man he, clearly, wanted to emulate. Deep down, he probably knows that too - and right now he's probably happy the whole business is over and done with.

Will be very interesting to see what he does next.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The idea that Ole was happy just to be in the job and had no ambitions beyond just staying...in the job - is ridiculous to me.

I think he knew precisely what he had to do.

He didn't have what it takes to do it, ultimately - he isn't cut from the same cloth as the man he, clearly, wanted to emulate. Deep down, he probably knows that too - and right now he's probably happy the whole business is over and done with.

Will be very interesting to see what he does next.
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If Ole was happy just to be in the job, he'd have gone for Premier League proven Jack Grealish instead of 'yong & lernin' Bundesliga player Jadon Sancho.

That was the safe bet for instant success. But Ole chose the option that would give United a brighter long term future.
 
jojojo said:
I was sat roughly where that photo was taken from. He was great with the fans at Bridgwater, he must have done a couple of hundred photos and autographs before the match. Good to see him looking so happy.
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Agreed. Legend
 
Dante said:
If Ole was happy just to be in the job, he'd have gone for Premier League proven Jack Grealish instead of 'yong & lernin' Bundesliga player Jadon Sancho.

That was the safe bet for instant success. But Ole chose the option that would give United a brighter long term future.
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Come on, you are just cherry picking younger signings under Ole. We also signed Ronaldo, Cavani, Maguire, Bruno, Varane - 5 first team players who were either at peak or past is and as much "safe bets" as you can have. Everyone also knew that we chased Trippier just did not agree on price. And you cannot just cherry picking and attribute young signings to Ole, and blame Woodward/Club for older ones. I mean we also signed the likes of Shaw and Martial under LvG and Baily, Lindelof, Dalot under Jose, but no one credits them for "youth-oriented" transfer policy (and rightfully so) - and under Ole we overall did not shift it to "young and learning" at all.
 
Max_United said:
Come on, you are just cherry picking younger signings under Ole. We also signed Ronaldo, Cavani, Maguire, Bruno, Varane - 5 first team players who were either at peak or past is and as much "safe bets" as you can have. Everyone also knew that we chased Trippier just did not agree on price. And you cannot just cherry picking and attribute young signings to Ole, and blame Woodward/Club for older ones. I mean we also signed the likes of Shaw and Martial under LvG and Baily, Lindelof, Dalot under Jose, but no one credits them for "youth-oriented" transfer policy (and rightfully so) - and under Ole we overall did not shift it to "young and learning" at all.
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The title of the thread is 'Solskjaer's legacy and his future'. So that's what I'm talking about.

Even so, the 4 players you mentioned are for the here and now. Ronaldo and Cavani were free, and have both been fantastic. Maguire has been poor this season, but was great the last two seasons and even got into the Euros team of the tournament in July. Varane is undoubtedly world class as well.

If Ole had bought more seasoned veterans like those, rather than splitting his purchases between the future and the present, he'd have been much better off. And possibly even built on the 2nd place we got in the league last season. But instead he prioritised United's future by spending the bulk of his transfer budget on kids.

If you want to talk about how Ole fecked things up in his last few weeks, there are plenty of other threads on that topic. But to bring it back to the thread title, his youth oriented transfer policy is his legacy.
 
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Dante said:
If Ole had bought more seasoned veterans like those, rather than splitting his purchases between the future and the present, he'd have been much better off. And possibly even built on the 2nd place we got in the league last season. But instead he prioritised United's future by spending the bulk of his transfer budget on kids.
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I disagree. While Sancho is only 21, he's not some sort of unproven youngster who you'd expect to have to wait years in order to get something good out of.

So yes, we've spent a little money on Pellistri and a little more on Amad, but that doesn't reflect the overall nature of our signings. Almost all of our signings were very much "here and now" players, even the younger ones (aside from those two).
 
Dante said:
If Ole was happy just to be in the job, he'd have gone for Premier League proven Jack Grealish instead of 'yong & lernin' Bundesliga player Jadon Sancho.

That was the safe bet for instant success. But Ole chose the option that would give United a brighter long term future.
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Actually Ole wanted them both and he would probably have had them both if Aston Villa were relegated. Then Aston Villa survived, its price went to the wall, we went for VDB and Ole didn't even bother looking at him.

You're also making Jadon Sancho look as if he was the Bundesliga version of Bebe. It isn't the case. Sancho's stats with Dortmund were amazing, nearly young Ronaldesque level. Most of Ole's signings were safe.
 
Max_United said:
Come on, you are just cherry picking younger signings under Ole. We also signed Ronaldo, Cavani, Maguire, Bruno, Varane - 5 first team players who were either at peak or past is and as much "safe bets" as you can have. Everyone also knew that we chased Trippier just did not agree on price. And you cannot just cherry picking and attribute young signings to Ole, and blame Woodward/Club for older ones. I mean we also signed the likes of Shaw and Martial under LvG and Baily, Lindelof, Dalot under Jose, but no one credits them for "youth-oriented" transfer policy (and rightfully so) - and under Ole we overall did not shift it to "young and learning" at all.
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What age were Maguire and Bruno when they were signed 25?

Hardly in the same age bracket as Cavani 33 and Ronaldo 36 mate. 25 years old isn't a players peak.
 
devilish said:
Actually Ole wanted them both and he would probably have had them both if Aston Villa were relegated. Then Aston Villa survived, its price went to the wall, we went for VDB and Ole didn't even bother looking at him.

You're also making Jadon Sancho look as if he was the Bundesliga version of Bebe. It isn't the case. Sancho's stats with Dortmund were amazing, nearly young Ronaldesque level. Most of Ole's signings were safe.
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Your opinion on Ole is too skewed to be taken seriously. You even implicated him in the Greenwood thread ffs.

You can't see the good and the bad about Ole. You can only see the bad. And then you twist the good into the worst possible interpretation.
 
Amir said:
I disagree. While Sancho is only 21, he's not some sort of unproven youngster who you'd expect to have to wait years in order to get something good out of.

So yes, we've spent a little money on Pellistri and a little more on Amad, but that doesn't reflect the overall nature of our signings. Almost all of our signings were very much "here and now" players, even the younger ones (aside from those two).
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As United fans, we should all be aware of the risks of buying attacking players from the Bundesliga. The risk of failing to adapt is huge.
 
stevoc said:
What age were Maguire and Bruno when they were signed 25?

Hardly in the same age bracket as Cavani 33 and Ronaldo 36 mate. 25 years old isn't a players peak.
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Maguire was 26, Bruno was 25. Studies show (link below) that for outfield players peak performance for outfield players is reached on average between 25 and 27 years old (for forwards rather 25, defenders rather 27). For every player the peak can be different but statistically they were both bought either exactly at their peak or very close to it.

https://content.iospress.com/downlo...sa0021?id=journal-of-sports-analytics/jsa0021
 
How his daughter end up at United woman’s. The mates rates is amazing at United.
 
Dante said:
If Ole was happy just to be in the job, he'd have gone for Premier League proven Jack Grealish instead of 'yong & lernin' Bundesliga player Jadon Sancho.

That was the safe bet for instant success. But Ole chose the option that would give United a brighter long term future.
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As posters above have stated, Ole wanted Grealish aswell and to suggest we spent 75m on a unproven talent in hope for future development is a huge reach

I do believe Ole did chose the long term option generally for the benefit of the club, but if these transfers don't work out well then it's not really a legacy is it.

Sometimes "buying to win now" should be prioritised ..especially when the team hasn't won anything for a while
 
R.N7 said:
He doesn't have to be biased to do that,

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Solskjaer's legacy in my mind will be these 2 catastrophic moral failures. Had it been just one that happened under his watch, then I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but two is more than I can stomach. Add the uncertainty over Ronaldo's incident and you have an alarming pattern.

Apart from that, Fernandes a huge positive, most of the other transfers seem like a waste of money, though in time some may look differently. Results fairly similar to other post-Ferguson managers. Left behind a very unhappy playing squad.
 
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King29 said:
As posters above have stated, Ole wanted Grealish aswell and to suggest we spent 75m on a unproven talent in hope for future development is a huge reach

I do believe Ole did chose the long term option generally for the benefit of the club, but if these transfers don't work out well then it's not really a legacy is it.

Sometimes "buying to win now" should be prioritised ..especially when the team hasn't won anything for a while
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Grealish may have been on the shortlist of options. But Sancho was a higher priority.

United's transfer strategy is to compile a list of preferences for each position. That's been well documented over the years. And I'm sure Solksjaer would have settled for Grealish as a fallback option.

But Sancho is the one we prioritised. There was never any bid for Grelaish. If they were equal priority, we'd have negotiated for both at the same time. Instead, Solksjaer wanted the younger option, with the longer adaptation period - but who's upside would also have been bigger in the long term.

Every transfer is a gamble. Ole gambled for the benefit of United more than himself. Even if Sancho fails, that's still Solksjaer's legacy.
 
Dante said:
Grealish may have been on the shortlist of options. But Sancho was a higher priority.

United's transfer strategy is to compile a list of preferences for each position. That's been well documented over the years. And I'm sure Solksjaer would have settled for Grealish as a fallback option.

But Sancho is the one we prioritised. There was never any bid for Grelaish. If they were equal priority, we'd have negotiated for both at the same time. Instead, Solksjaer wanted the younger option, with the longer adaptation period - but who's upside would also have been bigger in the long term.

Every transfer is a gamble. Ole gambled for the benefit of United more than himself. Even if Sancho fails, that's still Solksjaer's legacy.
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It’s nonsense to suggest Ole was prioritising players because they were younger. He signed a wide range of players in terms of their age, the only consistent factor is most have not been very good and or provided value for money.

He tried his best but he left behind a big mess that is going to take a lot of time and money to sort out. He left us exactly where he found us after 3 years, a huge wage bill and hundreds of millions spent. He won’t be first or last manager to be a failure and leave behind a mess at Utd.
 
Dante said:
Grealish may have been on the shortlist of options. But Sancho was a higher priority.

United's transfer strategy is to compile a list of preferences for each position. That's been well documented over the years. And I'm sure Solksjaer would have settled for Grealish as a fallback option.

But Sancho is the one we prioritised. There was never any bid for Grelaish. If they were equal priority, we'd have negotiated for both at the same time. Instead, Solksjaer wanted the younger option, with the longer adaptation period - but who's upside would also have been bigger in the long term.

Every transfer is a gamble. Ole gambled for the benefit of United more than himself. Even if Sancho fails, that's still Solksjaer's legacy.
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Great unbiased argument there. I'll remember it the next time you criticise Jose. After all, he gambled for the better of the team when he bought young Dalot in.
 
His purchases taken individually was not bad. After all most of them were well known and proven players. Where he messed up was with players like AWB, DVB and Maguire. He also did not know how to coach a football team at the top level. His legacy is that he brought a feel good factor after the toxic time of Jose but did feck all to win any trophies after spending a ridiculous amount of money and left the club in a worse position than he took over because of the unbalanced side. He should never have been appointed in the first place. After three years LVG and Jose won trophies. Ole zilch.
 
Foxbatt said:
His purchases taken individually was not bad. After all most of them were well known and proven players. Where he messed up was with players like AWB, DVB and Maguire. He also did not know how to coach a football team at the top level. His legacy is that he brought a feel good factor after the toxic time of Jose but did feck all to win any trophies after spending a ridiculous amount of money and left the club in a worse position than he took over because of the unbalanced side. He should never have been appointed in the first place. After three years LVG and Jose won trophies. Ole zilch.
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Agreed, with the exception of VdB, and some would argue AWB, none of them are bad signings at face value, but the problem is that they seemingly did not fit into a greater philosophy. It became painfully obvious when you then get a purist like RR to take over and you realize a sizable portion of the squad are square pegs in round holes
 
Dante said:
As United fans, we should all be aware of the risks of buying attacking players from the Bundesliga. The risk of failing to adapt is huge.
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I'd say the managers should be the first ones aware of the risk. And if they take it and fail, it's not because they went for youngsters or anything like that.

Not that Sancho coming good right away would have made a huge change anyway. The team didn't fall apart because one big signing struggled to deliever.
 
The irony is Grealish would have been a much better signing for United and Ole than Sancho and Jadon suits City and Pep more.

His style suited the way Ole made us set up a lot better than Sancho. As many have said we signed a lot of square pegs for round holes with Ole.

Sancho may eventually come good but it's going to take us to change our style of play massively to see the best of him.
 
Dante said:
The title of the thread is 'Solskjaer's legacy and his future'. So that's what I'm talking about.

Even so, the 4 players you mentioned are for the here and now. Ronaldo and Cavani were free, and have both been fantastic. Maguire has been poor this season, but was great the last two seasons and even got into the Euros team of the tournament in July. Varane is undoubtedly world class as well.

If Ole had bought more seasoned veterans like those, rather than splitting his purchases between the future and the present, he'd have been much better off. And possibly even built on the 2nd place we got in the league last season. But instead he prioritised United's future by spending the bulk of his transfer budget on kids.

If you want to talk about how Ole fecked things up in his last few weeks, there are plenty of other threads on that topic. But to bring it back to the thread title, his youth oriented transfer policy is his legacy.
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HAHAHAHA

You can't be serious? he brought "Safe Bets" even if it meant we overpaid for mediocrity
 
Tap said:
This is very true. The endless excuses and holier than thou top red remarks from this group escalate the divide between the fans.

The same exists for our previous managers except that the Ole-in group is larger and more aggressive.

Reminds me somewhat of the movie and games industry with certain subpar titles having 2 camps pouring buckets of crap over each other.
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Yeah those on the other side saying anyone not wanting the team to lose every game 6-0 wasn't a real fan were a real unifying force.
 
Stgun said:
Name me a player who were successful with cuddled approach. All winners came from harsh treatment , it's not just in football ,in every career. They becomes winner because they can overcome it. A manager has to be fair , reward them when they played well, kick them in the ass when they were shit, that's how a good man management is. Cuddling approach will only breed loser. Mourinho wouldn't have over 25 major trophies in his career if he was bad at man management absolutely no chance. Look at the kind of players he was once managed , Ibrahimovic , Balotelli , Adriano , Cambiasso , Walter Samuel all in the same dressing room. I think what he couldn't manage is a lazy player.

It works both way ,if you are mentally too weak and too soft to handle it then you are probably end up as a loser too. Back then we have Sir Alex and Roy Keane in dressing room , can you imagine how horrible they are for a mentally weak players ?
By the way , football manager isn't there to make a player happy , that's what fans are for. Manager is there to turn player into winners if the player refuse / mentally weak then it's the manager job to get rid of them before they brought the whole team down with them. There are too many soft and weak characters in our team which lead us to this mess Rangnick has to deal with. I only support the club and what's best for the club ,never the player , mentally weak players should never be allowed to step foot at Manchester United. if you care about players feelings and mental health that only shows where your priorities at. OGS seems to be only care about players feelings and mental health but look where it brought him ? We get battered week in week out yet he keeps the same starting eleven because he didn't dare to hurt Luke Shaw , AWB , Rashford , Maguire feelings. Weak leadership is what failed him and one of the reasons why he is still jobless.
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Early candidate for worst post of 2022.
 
Jippy said:
Yeah those on the other side saying anyone not wanting the team to lose every game 6-0 wasn't a real fan were a real unifying force.
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The only thing that's safe to say is that he divided the fans.
 
stefan92 said:
The only thing that's safe to say is that he divided the fans.
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Yep and not sure why some posters want to keep raking it over again and again.
 
Bobcat said:
Agreed, with the exception of VdB, and some would argue AWB, none of them are bad signings at face value, but the problem is that they seemingly did not fit into a greater philosophy. It became painfully obvious when you then get a purist like RR to take over and you realize a sizable portion of the squad are square pegs in round holes
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True, but that's on the club to hire a manager whose philosophy is similar to the predecessor. And that is exactly where we've done poorly - more than splashing stupid money or hiring poor managers. Ole's tactical system was more flexible than defined, as in he changed tactics based on opposition and hence needed players for every role rather than them being specialists of a particular system.

Eventually the manager will sign players who suit him, not the next potential manager, and it is up to the club to not hire Sam Allardyce after Pep, because you are forcing yourself into a rebuild. Us hiring LVG after Moyes, Mou after LVG, Ole after Mou, and RR after Ole perfectly encapsulates the stupidity of the footballing men at the club. And, if you're going to change philosophy after every manager, give the manager 4-5 years to change the club as he pleases, but also be sure that the manager would be a success
 
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