Sofyan Amrabat | signs for United on loan

Status
Not open for further replies.
Judas said:
That's more than double what every single Italian source has said :lol:
Click to expand...
The thing is that no reliable Italian source has reported on the figure. The most reliable Italian journalist to do is Pedullà, and he's hit or miss.
 
What is it with the British press and massively blowing up our rumoured transfer fees? Fed by United so when we get them for much less we can gloat about how we negotiated fees lower?
 
NZT-One said:
out of interest: how many games?
Click to expand...
About 3 or 4, I suppose.

I just had a look now to see if there are any videos to give you an idea and there are a few. If you want another opinion with a bit of “analysis” I found a video that Stephen Howson posted this afternoon and it is almost word for word what I’d tell you myself. Howson does quote a few stats as well, which I tend not to hear but sounded positive enough.
 
sullydnl said:
No but they certainly had preferred options. And it's pretty clear Amrabat wouldn't be that. He'd get plenty of games but on paper he starts on the bench more than any of Casemiro, Bruno or Mount do.
Click to expand...
I think you’ll be surprised at how many games he starts. Our midfield 2 needs more energy and with amrabat you get all that, plus a warrior, and someone who can actually play football.
 
£50m is basically what his reported release clause is meant to be. We aren't going to pay that.
 
I tell you what English journos have been pretty shocking this window. They've constantly said that Atalanta wanted 85 million gbp / 100 million Euro's and that clearly looks like bullshit now as everyone suspected.

Amrabat has a year left on his contract there's no way he'll be 50 million and we certainly won't pay that
 
L1nk said:
So they're just guessing :lol:
Click to expand...
It's not that Jackson is guessing but rather he's got form for winding certain sections of the fan base. I'm pretty sure he intentionally put the £50m figure out there to get a reaction.
 
Adnan said:
It's not that Jackson is guessing but rather he's got form for winding certain sections of the fan base. I'm pretty sure he intentionally put the £50m figure out there to get a reaction.
Click to expand...
Given his smug cnut face I can believe that.
 
So who do people think we should go for instead of this guy. We aren’t signing Caicedo this year and Lavia will go elsewhere
 
OrcaFat said:
About 3 or 4, I suppose.

I just had a look now to see if there are any videos to give you an idea and there are a few. If you want another opinion with a bit of “analysis” I found a video that Stephen Howson posted this afternoon and it is almost word for word what I’d tell you myself. Howson does quote a few stats as well, which I tend not to hear but sounded positive enough.
Click to expand...
hmm thanks for hint. I watched the video and what Howson described was more or less the perfect midfielder... Which is an issue because if he would be perfect, he would have a different CV. But again, don't want to picture him as a bad player, he certainly has qualities, that are very desirable for us and switching him for Fred or McTom is a definitive win. Still worried about the lack of defensive ability in the squad. Actually a bit suprised to see that the defensive improvement that Casemiro brought seems to be seen as not overly "essential". At least not essential enough to bring in a replacement.

In different videos, two alternatives were named, Caqueret and Sangare. Both seem to have an even more rounded profile and are younger. Amrabat still better than them in terms of passive, don't want to take that away from him.

Edit: and just to be sure: I don't think, that Amrabat isn't a good player or isn't a player we can benefit from having. My point is, maybe there is a player out there who fits even better and who ticks one of the most important objectives for me: have a plan if Casemiro isn't available.
 
NZT-One said:
hmm thanks for hint. I watched the video and what Howson described was more or less the perfect midfielder... Which is an issue because if he would be perfect, he would have a different CV. But again, don't want to picture him as a bad player, he certainly has qualities, that are very desirable for us and switching him for Fred or McTom is a definitive win. Still worried about the lack of defensive ability in the squad. Actually a bit suprised to see that the defensive improvement that Casemiro brought seems to be seen as not overly "essential". At least not essential enough to bring in a replacement.

In different videos, two alternatives were named, Caqueret and Sangare. Both seem to have an even more rounded profile and are younger. Amrabat still better than them in terms of passive, don't want to take that away from him.

Edit: and just to be sure: I don't think, that Amrabat isn't a good player or isn't a player we can benefit from having. My point is, maybe there is a player out there who fits even better and who ticks one of the most important objectives for me: have a plan if Casemiro isn't available.
Click to expand...

Two names that have been kicking around the CAF for last couple of seasons,however have never seen us even remotely linked to signing either of them. Clearly there is something that's missing the mark in the eyes of our scouts.
 
NZT-One said:
hmm thanks for hint. I watched the video and what Howson described was more or less the perfect midfielder... Which is an issue because if he would be perfect, he would have a different CV. But again, don't want to picture him as a bad player, he certainly has qualities, that are very desirable for us and switching him for Fred or McTom is a definitive win. Still worried about the lack of defensive ability in the squad. Actually a bit suprised to see that the defensive improvement that Casemiro brought seems to be seen as not overly "essential". At least not essential enough to bring in a replacement.

In different videos, two alternatives were named, Caqueret and Sangare. Both seem to have an even more rounded profile and are younger. Amrabat still better than them in terms of passive, don't want to take that away from him.

Edit: and just to be sure: I don't think, that Amrabat isn't a good player or isn't a player we can benefit from having. My point is, maybe there is a player out there who fits even better and who ticks one of the most important objectives for me: have a plan if Casemiro isn't available.
Click to expand...
It’s possible that he’s not the best option, absolutely. But I think he is clever enough and has the attributes to slot in for Case but also to play with him at times. He’s quite versatile to my eyes.

Of course, it’s just my opinion, from what little I’ve seen, but I think his ability lifts the level of the midfield just by his being here and will ease the burden carried by our best players.

As a general idea, I don’t like specific “back-up” players, as in “we need cover for Casemiro”. Yes we need to be able to play well and win without him but I’d rather get a bit of variety and give EtH some options than bring in a like-for-like deputy. The quality has to be high and I think that’s true with Amrabat. Still, there may well be better players available.
 
This signing is now more important with the injury of Mainoo.
 
The signing was important regardless of Mainoo injury. We need as many good CMs as we can get our hands on.
 
OrcaFat said:
I saw him play football and formed an opinion.
Click to expand...
Mate, that’s not how it works. Now go to fbref and soccerstats, check his stats and percentiles and come back with your revised and correct opinion please.
 
Anustart89 said:
Mate, that’s not how it works. Now go to fbref and soccerstats, check his stats and percentiles and come back with your revised and correct opinion please.
Click to expand...
Exactly, we dont want any of that cobblers in here, watching players play football and forming an opinion, bloody Dinosaurs

If you havnt studied a heat map, we're not interested
 
Dans said:
I said that I was unconvinced by him (having watched him a few times - he was never a stand out player for me), that I thought he wasn't good enough for United, that there's a reason he's played for Ajax (as a youth), Feyenoord, Club Brugge, the mighty Hellas Verona, and, the perennial outside the the top 5 of the mediocre Serie A (of Lukaku, Scimmacca, Darmian et el fame) finishers Fiorentina......namely, that there are a lack of bigger (note, I didn't even say big) clubs interested in him. Why might that be? Those facts and my assessment fit together quite nicely. I don't think he's the player United need. That ok?
Click to expand...

He’s never played for Ajax, that was his older brother Nordin! He was decent at Utrecht & Feyenoord, miserable at Club Brugge, but really developed & matured when he went to Italy.
 
DJ_21 said:
This signing is now more important with the injury of Mainoo.
Click to expand...
Yep we need 7 midfielders since we always have two injured or suspended, this position is most combative in the team which is why we need the following; Casemeiro, S Amrabat, K Mainoo, C Ericsen, Bruno, M Mount and either S Mctominay or we buy 2 more midfielders if we sell Scott as well as DVB and Fred. We must have 7 players for the squad.
 
croadyman said:
Two names that have been kicking around the CAF for last couple of seasons,however have never seen us even remotely linked to signing either of them. Clearly there is something that's missing the mark in the eyes of our scouts.
Click to expand...
I agree. Funnily enough, I would have expected both of them to have moved to a bigger club by now but who knows. Especially Lyon has a knack for producing players who look great but not all of them really hit the ground running. Thinking of Cherki, Aouar or Ndombele. On the other hand, you have Paqueta or Guimaraes though.

That being said - for me personally, not being earmarked by our scouts isn't something, I'd consider as a big issue. Not like they earned much trust in the last years. If the trend changes, hopefully it will or has already, I'll adapt my stance.

OrcaFat said:
It’s possible that he’s not the best option, absolutely. But I think he is clever enough and has the attributes to slot in for Case but also to play with him at times. He’s quite versatile to my eyes.

Of course, it’s just my opinion, from what little I’ve seen, but I think his ability lifts the level of the midfield just by his being here and will ease the burden carried by our best players.

As a general idea, I don’t like specific “back-up” players, as in “we need cover for Casemiro”. Yes we need to be able to play well and win without him but I’d rather get a bit of variety and give EtH some options than bring in a like-for-like deputy. The quality has to be high and I think that’s true with Amrabat. Still, there may well be better players available.
Click to expand...
You're running in open doors. I absolutely think, that bringing a player like Amrabat in helps the team.

But I think, you are dismissing the "Backup" idea on the wrong premises. For example: If you want to play a system that puts high emphasis on fast wingers on transitions, then you have to make sure, you have such players in your squad. Best case scenario you don't have two but maybe four to be able to switch. Would a player like Mata be considered as an option? No, because he isn't fast, he would be winger, he would have a few useful attributes but for the role he would be supposed to fulfill, he wouldn't be suited.
Same thing now with Casemiro. ETH created a system, which holds a few roles. Every player has a few objectives to work on. Casemiros role is (not exclusively of course) to secure the defense by mopping up the midfield. Putting in tackles, adding physicality against the ball, be there to erase danger early. If we don't want to switch systems or do deeper adjustments of the system, then it makes sense to make sure, that options or deputies or backups have the needed skillset for that role.

Its obviously not a rigid rule, exceptions are possible, but the more essential a certain role is for the system, the more important it is, not to be overly reliant on one single player to perform it. We have endured that issue when Matic declined so heavily: We wanted to play a system, that required a ballwinner in midfield but all we had was Pogba and McFred. All players who have their uses but not the essential skillset to fullfill the objectives of that role. And we suffered for it.

Anustart89 said:
Mate, that’s not how it works. Now go to fbref and soccerstats, check his stats and percentiles and come back with your revised and correct opinion please.
Click to expand...
Come guys, lets not get progress-critical here. Nobody said the eyetest didn't matter but lets not act that this is only real way to evaluate a player. The user himself said he watched only a handful of games. If you would have watched a handful of McTominay games at the start of last season, you'd absolutely have a different opinion on the player than if you would have watched him through all his carreer. Stats and analytics surely aren't perfect but the eyetest isn't as well. Except if you consider yourself a scout or anything. Which, as far as I know, nobody around here does (except for this Lucky guy)...
 
Woziak said:
Yep we need 7 midfielders since we always have two injured or suspended, this position is most combative in the team which is why we need the following; Casemeiro, S Amrabat, K Mainoo, C Ericsen, Bruno, M Mount and either S Mctominay or we buy 2 more midfielders if we sell Scott as well as DVB and Fred. We must have 7 players for the squad.
Click to expand...

Would say the one things those lack is either pure DM to step in for Casemiro or more of a Modric type metronome. Still hoping we sign either of those profiles ideally in January
 
NZT-One said:
I agree. Funnily enough, I would have expected both of them to have moved to a bigger club by now but who knows. Especially Lyon has a knack for producing players who look great but not all of them really hit the ground running. Thinking of Cherki, Aouar or Ndombele. On the other hand, you have Paqueta or Guimaraes though.

That being said - for me personally, not being earmarked by our scouts isn't something, I'd consider as a big issue. Not like they earned much trust in the last years. If the trend changes, hopefully it will or has already, I'll adapt my stance.


You're running in open doors. I absolutely think, that bringing a player like Amrabat in helps the team.

But I think, you are dismissing the "Backup" idea on the wrong premises. For example: If you want to play a system that puts high emphasis on fast wingers on transitions, then you have to make sure, you have such players in your squad. Best case scenario you don't have two but maybe four to be able to switch. Would a player like Mata be considered as an option? No, because he isn't fast, he would be winger, he would have a few useful attributes but for the role he would be supposed to fulfill, he wouldn't be suited.
Same thing now with Casemiro. ETH created a system, which holds a few roles. Every player has a few objectives to work on. Casemiros role is (not exclusively of course) to secure the defense by mopping up the midfield. Putting in tackles, adding physicality against the ball, be there to erase danger early. If we don't want to switch systems or do deeper adjustments of the system, then it makes sense to make sure, that options or deputies or backups have the needed skillset for that role.

Its obviously not a rigid rule, exceptions are possible, but the more essential a certain role is for the system, the more important it is, not to be overly reliant on one single player to perform it. We have endured that issue when Matic declined so heavily: We wanted to play a system, that required a ballwinner in midfield but all we had was Pogba and McFred. All players who have their uses but not the essential skillset to fullfill the objectives of that role. And we suffered for it.


Come guys, lets not get progress-critical here. Nobody said the eyetest didn't matter but lets not act that this is only real way to evaluate a player. The user himself said he watched only a handful of games. If you would have watched a handful of McTominay games at the start of last season, you'd absolutely have a different opinion on the player than if you would have watched him through all his carreer. Stats and analytics surely aren't perfect but the eyetest isn't as well. Except if you consider yourself a scout or anything. Which, as far as I know, nobody around here does (except for this Lucky guy)...
Click to expand...
I don’t like the idea of back-up or deputy players. If they are good enough to cover without a big drop in quality they either won’t be happy being designated backup or they’ll get into the team and in that case they aren’t back-up, they’re competition. If they aren’t at that level what are they doing at the club? So that’s my view on “back up” and “cover players”. I don’t believe in them.

I don’t really understand all that stuff you say about Mata but he offered something different from the other players we had and so he did provide variety.

Most of this is secondary to the main point - Amrabat is a good no6 and defensively capable. I’ve only seen him a few times but it was clear that he is quality. For a biased but nevertheless informative view check out the video in post #1712.
 
NZT-One said:
Come guys, lets not get progress-critical here. Nobody said the eyetest didn't matter but lets not act that this is only real way to evaluate a player. The user himself said he watched only a handful of games. If you would have watched a handful of McTominay games at the start of last season, you'd absolutely have a different opinion on the player than if you would have watched him through all his carreer. Stats and analytics surely aren't perfect but the eyetest isn't as well. Except if you consider yourself a scout or anything. Which, as far as I know, nobody around here does (except for this Lucky guy)...
Click to expand...
I’m mostly taking the piss, buddy.
 
strandty said:
What is it with the British press and massively blowing up our rumoured transfer fees? Fed by United so when we get them for much less we can gloat about how we negotiated fees lower?
Click to expand...
Devil You Know said:
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick with this.

It's only the fans who care about seeing low figures in the press for player purchases and wages.

The club directors actually want to be seen as big spenders. That was Woodward's whole spiel.

The figures that the BBC report come straight from the club. Because those are the numbers the club want the world to hear about. It's good PR for them and it distracts from accusations of the Glazers being cheapskates.
Click to expand...
British journalists get their leaks direct from United, so they report whatever United tell them. The bigger numbers are exactly what club want the world to hear about.

Foreign journalist get their info from the selling club or from agents. Those figures aren't massaged as much.
 
Last edited:
I guess this one is the last stop this summer. Could go down to the wire.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.