Sofyan Amrabat | signs for United on loan

[AngeloHenriquez]

Amrabat is a dm. Not every dm plays like Casemiro.

He played as a dm at Fiorentina in a double pivot and Marocco as a single dm.

As a DLP not a DM who recovers and tackles, he is hard working but has less defensive actions than Fred or Mctominay

 

[dinostar77]

My guess is Liverpool "gazump us" despite the fact that we probably won't even make a bid for him, as they need a DM desperately and we don't?

Nah, they want the Crystal Palace lad to replace fabinho.

 

[thomas porter]

As a DLP not a DM who recovers and tackles, he is hard working but has less defensive actions than Fred or Mctominay

Context matters here as Fiorentina were the highest possession team in Serie A. For Morocco at the world cup he was all action and very solid defensively.

 

[dinostar77]

I am not sure what to think about this. He is a warrior but playing wise, I doubt he would suit our system. However, as Casemiro’s backup, he would be decent.

On the other hand, Bayern is kind of open about selling Kimmich when a good offer comes in, so I’d love us to go for him, although this might be expensive enough.

How exactly? ETH wants possession football and this lad is possession football by volumes.

 

[croadyman]

How exactly? ETH wants possession football and this lad is possession football by volumes.

Yeah that is very true

 

[bosnian_red]

Exactly, i've been thinking for a couple of weeks now that this transfer will be hijacked. We are just so slow and sloppy in the transfer market. Amrabat will be another Kim Min Jae or Gakpo. I would not be surprised at all if he ends up at Liverpool soon.

You misunderstood me. It's not about us being slow. We already signed Onana and Mount before the pre season tour starter! That's both clean and efficient.

It's about it not being a priority and us having a budget to contend with. I don't see us doing anything big after hojlund and would need some significant movement to sell Maguire or McTominay to do more in defence or midfield. We still have to shift fred, Elanga and Henderson just to get Hojlund anyway, and Van de Beek will probably also leave. We have to deal with budget restrictions and squad size restrictions (not necessarily rules, moreso what Ten Hag wants to work with... Managers don't like big squads).

 

[reddevilz007]

So with Elanga and Telles to be sold, time to wrap up Amrabat.

 

[ArbeitervonWien]

So with Elanga and Telles to be sold, time to wrap up Amrabat.

Did I miss something? I thought the Telles move was called off?

 

[reddevilz007]

Did I miss something? I thought the Telles move was called off?

Oh, right. I missed that one.

 

[Sir Chapman]

How exactly? ETH wants possession football and this lad is possession football by volumes.

I agree, he is a warrior and it would give us a quality depth in terms of defensive midfielders. However, I was wondering how Casemiro and Amrabat would work together - specifically on long term and not just tactical wise.

Maybe I just like the style of football which Kimmich shows and therefore think he would suit us perfectly, defensively but also offensively, but am aware this is not really concrete although Bayern is open to sell him. I can see him leaving to Liverpool though if he decides to move away.

 

[Wezzaldo]

You misunderstood me. It's not about us being slow. We already signed Onana and Mount before the pre season tour starter! That's both clean and efficient.

It's about it not being a priority and us having a budget to contend with. I don't see us doing anything big after hojlund and would need some significant movement to sell Maguire or McTominay to do more in defence or midfield. We still have to shift fred, Elanga and Henderson just to get Hojlund anyway, and Van de Beek will probably also leave. We have to deal with budget restrictions and squad size restrictions (not necessarily rules, moreso what Ten Hag wants to work with... Managers don't like big squads).

Why do we have to sell Fred, Elanga and Henderson to buy Hojlund? You know this for a fact, or just being dramatic. I’m pretty sure none of us know what our exact budget is.

Elanga gone anyway.

 

[bosnian_red]

Why do we have to sell Fred, Elanga and Henderson to buy Hojlund? You know this for a fact, or just being dramatic. I’m pretty sure none of us know what our exact budget is.

Elanga gone anyway.

A lot of reports and FFP analysis that pretty much support that 100m net is roughly what we are looking at. Yes there's always wiggle room, but it makes sense. Last season as well the extra bit for Antony at the end always felt like (and was said at the time) that it was taking some from the future budget). Basically a lot of things and logic support us having roughly 100m net to spend. Which we've spent on Mount and Onana.

So yes we might get hojlund before we recoup that money, but it'll probably go towards the hojlund deal in terms of FFP.

We have these who are likely, and will pretty much make it doable to get Hojlund:
Elanga 15m
Henderson 20m
Fred 15m

Van de Beek, Maguire, McTominay all *might* go, and each should get us 15m+. They could equally all stay, and I'd probably bet more on them staying or just being loans which wouldn't help us this summer.
So if we sell a couple of these (both Van de Beek and McTominay), then we'd get a DM. If we sell Van de Beek and Maguire, then we get a CB like Disasi or whoever. They are huge ifs though.

Nobody else in our squad who will realistically go will fetch anything significant, we can't even get Saudi to actually get the Telles deal over the line for 4m FFS. So I'm just ignoring all those because they barely impact FFP and don't have squad places as it is.

 

[Gandalf]

So yes we might get hojlund before we recoup that money, but it'll probably go towards the hojlund deal in terms of FFP.

We have these who are likely, and will pretty much make it doable to get Hojlund:
Elanga 15m
Henderson 20m
Fred 15m

Might need one of the real financial experts to weigh in but if we are selling Elanga for 15M we may already be in position to complete a deal for Hojlund. My understanding is that with amoritization we only need to raise enough for the first instalment in this window so if for example the deal works out as 60M fee plus 30M in wages for the life of the contract then the hit to our bottom line is one fifth of that total. In that case it works out as 18M per year. The 15M for Elanga has no offsets as he is from our Academy and we also have the money from Iqbal, Laird and the sell on fee from Chong so we are already there.

If that is the case a deal for Hendo, another homegrown talent, should easily give us the upfront cash to sign Amrabat or another midfield target. The downside is this adds to the amount of amoritized fees carried forward on the balance sheet into future windows but that can be offset by getting guys like Telles, VDB and Bailly off the books who do not represent a profit but do reduce our future financial obligations.

 

[bosnian_red]

Might need one of the real financial experts to weigh in but if we are selling Elanga for 15M we may already be in position to complete a deal for Hojlund. My understanding is that with amoritization we only need to raise enough for the first instalment in this window so if for example the deal works out as 60M fee plus 30M in wages for the life of the contract then the hit to our bottom line is one fifth of that total. In that case it works out as 18M per year. The 15M for Elanga has no offsets as he is from our Academy and we also have the money from Iqbal, Laird and the sell on fee from Chong so we are already there.

If that is the case a deal for Hendo, another homegrown talent, should easily give us the upfront cash to sign Amrabat or another midfield target. The downside is this adds to the amount of amoritized fees carried forward on the balance sheet into future windows but that can be offset by getting guys like Telles, VDB and Bailly off the books who do not represent a profit but do reduce our future financial obligations.

True. Like I said though, it's a mix of squad size, spots already taken up and finances. And generally teams not wanting to go fully in on the amortized cost calculator unless they have infinite money (which is an issue for us as well as FFP until the club is sold, which may not happen). I don't see us sanctioning another midfielder like Amrabat while we have Van de Beek and McTominay on the books. Even if van de Beek is sold, we still have 5 senior players plus Mainoo who will stay as part of the squad to be our midfield 3. That's already 2 per position. A backup trio of Mainoo, Eriksen and McTominay isn't really a problematic midfield, and it's certainly not us short on bodies.

Our squad was so overly bloated that we had plenty of space to sell without replacing, and that's what needs to happen and I think what we'll do.

 

[dinostar77]

I'd rather we got Lavia as future first teamer and understudy to Casemiro but doubt that will happen

Hopefully we can get rid of Fred and Van De Beek and maybe Mctominay (my worry is he is homegrown) but all three need to go

Amrabat in wouldn't be the worst in the world

Amrabat is really underrated on here. If it wasnt for Barcelona financial issues theres a good chance he'd be off to the nou camp as busqutes replacement.

Coming into his prime years.

Lavia, isnt ready for a top 6 club and would need a loan to develop him further.

 

[Redstain]

The club should sign a younger understudy for the midfield to get minutes behind Casemiro. Fans using world cup performance to signify the relevance of a player domestically is bad judgement, if Maguire was half the player he was for England he would still be the club captain.

Nothing about this transfer is impressive, I think it makes sense if Eriksen was being moved on but Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes for a midfield under a totally new manager resembles a core that will inevitably capitulate in a few seasons due an ageing midfield. The club's direction is questionable with such an approach.

 

[Cassidy]

The club should sign a younger understudy for the midfield to get minutes behind Casemiro. Fans using world cup performance to signify the relevance of a player domestically is bad judgement, if Maguire was half the player he was for England he would still be the club captain.

Nothing about this transfer is impressive, I think it makes sense if Eriksen was being moved on but Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes for a midfield under a totally new manager resembles a core that will inevitably capitulate in a few seasons due an ageing midfield. The club's direction is questionable with such an approach.

Good thing the manager isn't doing that.
Amrabat is 26 by the way, and Mainoo is 18.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I am not sure what to think about this. He is a warrior but playing wise, I doubt he would suit our system. However, as Casemiro’s backup, he would be decent.

On the other hand, Bayern is kind of open about selling Kimmich when a good offer comes in, so I’d love us to go for him, although this might be expensive enough.

The more warriors the better? Guys like Casemiro, Licha, Antony, Bruno and Garnacho play with a hunger and this give us more of an edge. I'd welcome more players like this.

 

[Abraxas]

As others have said it feels odd to target a 27 year old when our midfield could do with some injection of a younger profile player especially in deeper areas. But hopefully that means that someone like Mainoo will get more chances.

Not so worrying from a squad profile POV is it? If he was 30 I'd understand. When he reaches Casemiro and Eriksen's current stage I think they will already have moved on. At least if there's any kind of succession planning. In fact I think Eriksen will be long gone and Casemiro will be on the verge.

He should be a player about to enter the part of a curve that represents his best years whereas those two are right at the peak and probably heading downwards (Eriksen definitely has anyway)

Then we have Mainoo who looks a big talent that gives hope for the future and Mount bridges the gap between all of them. Looks fairly okay.

 

[Rolaholic]

Folks claiming we're only after him off of his world cup performances keep forgetting ETH is the man who gave him his first big break in senior football...

He knows his style and profile quite well already long before the world cup

 

[dinostar77]

I agree, he is a warrior and it would give us a quality depth in terms of defensive midfielders. However, I was wondering how Casemiro and Amrabat would work together - specifically on long term and not just tactical wise.

Maybe I just like the style of football which Kimmich shows and therefore think he would suit us perfectly, defensively but also offensively, but am aware this is not really concrete although Bayern is open to sell him. I can see him leaving to Liverpool though if he decides to move away.

Casemiro is a DM and amrabat a DLP, as a double pivot they should be fine. Add mount or bruno ahead of them and you have the passer/creator/destroyer trident a 3 man midfield needs.

 

[dinostar77]

The club should sign a younger understudy for the midfield to get minutes behind Casemiro. Fans using world cup performance to signify the relevance of a player domestically is bad judgement, if Maguire was half the player he was for England he would still be the club captain.

Nothing about this transfer is impressive, I think it makes sense if Eriksen was being moved on but Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen and Fernandes for a midfield under a totally new manager resembles a core that will inevitably capitulate in a few seasons due an ageing midfield. The club's direction is questionable with such an approach.

Maybe you should have a read about his qualities and understand the player ETH wants to sign?

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-sofyan-amrabat/

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Seconded, thirded and fourthed!

This endless loop of bargain shopping is holding the club back for years and not making a difference in climbing the table. If we're not buying class, don't spend it. It's like doing another Fred all over again.

Great post mate!

Fred cost €50mn years ago. That's not bargain shopping. That's shitty talent id. It's arguable that a lot of our problem isn't that we need better defenders to stop attacks but better technicians who can retain posession and stop us constantly getting pressured in midfield. Amrabat is a far better technician than Fred and he's both press resistant and good at passing and carrying the ball through midfield, neither of which you could say about Fred, who I'm fond of.

 

[christinaa]

We need a class striker - plain and simple.

 

[windycityfan]

Point is, if Amrabat is valued at ~30m, you instead do Lavia for ~50m. Don't have the extra ~20m? Throw McFred at the problem, or until you can get the extra for Lavia.

Fred cost €50mn years ago. That's not bargain shopping. That's shitty talent id. It's arguable that a lot of our problem isn't that we need better defenders to stop attacks but better technicians who can retain posession and stop us constantly getting pressured in midfield. Amrabat is a far better technician than Fred and he's both press resistant and good at passing and carrying the ball through midfield, neither of which you could say about Fred, who I'm fond of.

Yup, you said it best. But why not go for Lavia for ~$20m more (allegedly what the valuation difference would amount to)?

I have nothing against Amrabat, and maybe he is just the type of skill set and mentality we need most at the moment, but appears to me buying C+/B- prospects when you can go for A prospects, that are younger and with better resale value for $20m more (over the life of the contract), is a better approach in the long term ambitions.

Of course this is all moot if that’s who the manager has identified for his project.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Point is, if Amrabat is valued at ~30m, you instead do Lavia for ~50m. Don't have the extra ~20m? Throw McFred at the problem, or until you can get the extra for Lavia.


Yup, you said it best. But why not go for Lavia for ~$20m more (allegedly what the valuation difference would amount to)?

I have nothing against Amrabat, and maybe he is just the type of skill set and mentality we need most at the moment, but appears to me buying C+/B- prospects when you can go for A prospects, that are younger and with better resale value for $20m more (over the life of the contract), is a better approach in the long term ambitions.

Of course this is all moot if that’s who the manager has identified for his project.

I would personally love Lavia and thought Caicedo should have been our main midfield target at the start of the window however I think Fred's fee is what will essentially pay for the Amrabat transfer so it's not like it can be thrown into the kitty to supplement any bid for Lavia. Tbh, the fees we've already spent were the extent of what I thought was available and we're still talking about potentially spending another 85mn on Hojlund and Amrabat. Think we're just strapped and that €20/€25mn extra pushes us over the limit.

It's also possible that a City graduate just doesn't want to join United.

 

[daba]

Don’t think this guy is a bad option, but would rather us go get Caqueret, Kone or Lavia

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Don’t think this guy is a bad option, but would rather us go get Caqueret, Kone or Lavia

Three good shouts and I'd add Enzo le Fee to that too.

 

[daba]

Three good shouts and I'd add Enzo le Fee to that too.

Le Fee has gone to Rennes unfortunately. Strange move given the hype around him, thought he had Prem, PSG or Dortmund written all over him.

 

[croadyman]

Don’t think this guy is a bad option, but would rather us go get Caqueret, Kone or Lavia

Yeah zero links to any of them is telling

 

[dinostar77]

Don’t think this guy is a bad option, but would rather us go get Caqueret, Kone or Lavia

Those three are DM's, amrabat is more of a DLP.

 

[Sir Chapman]

Those three are DM's, amrabat is more of a DLP.

well, it’s difficult to make a hard line between DMs and DLPs. When I check the statistics out there with the DLPs, there’s not only Casa included but also Rodri, Silva (even), Gundogan or Kimmich. So having Casa and Amrabat at the same time on the pitch, I’m not sure a huge difference in terms of playing wise will be seen. Whereas with i.e. Kimmich this playing style would be definitely different and applicable to each other. This is just my personal preference since I like how Kimmich is adoptable but this may never happen

 

[dinostar77]

well, it’s difficult to make a hard line between DMs and DLPs. When I check the statistics out there with the DLPs, there’s not only Casa included but also Rodri, Silva (even), Gundogan or Kimmich. So having Casa and Amrabat at the same time on the pitch, I’m not sure a huge difference in terms of playing wise will be seen. Whereas with i.e. Kimmich this playing style would be definitely different and applicable to each other. This is just my personal preference since I like how Kimmich is adoptable but this may never happen

Casemiro isnt a DLP. Amrabat would give us something we dont have that ETH has wanted for a while a DLP i.e. frenkie. But not of that elite class.

Theres a player analysis link of ambrarat thats been posted a few times, the lad is a passing machine in a possession based team. Medium/long passes being a favourire. Thats not what casemiro brings to utd or does for utd.

Im guessing that ETH wants a swiss army knife of options, different capabilities for different opposition setups.

I cant see bayern letting kimmich go.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Le Fee has gone to Rennes unfortunately. Strange move given the hype around him, thought he had Prem, PSG or Dortmund written all over him.

That went completely under my radar and I've been following him for ages. Rennes's recruitment is pretty good but they haven't been able to do much with the guys they've bought so hope it doesn't turn into a bad decision.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Those three are DM's, amrabat is more of a DLP.

They're no more DMs than Amrabat. In fact I would see each of them is a defensively proficient 8.

 

[daba]

Those three are DM's, amrabat is more of a DLP.

I’d say Caqueret is a DLP, then Lavia and Kone are a bit of a blend between a pure DM and DLP - ball playing DM if you like - which is how I would describe Casemiro.

Either way, we just need depth behind Casemiro as currently we only have McFred (who are both leaving we hope) and an 18 year old (who I think will go to the very top, but it’s too soon for him). So whether that’s a DLP or a (ball playing) DM, I don’t think it matter a whole lot.

I would just prefer a younger talent, who if we decide to sell in 3 years time, would be sellable with still a large part of the career ahead of the them so we’re not stuck with another Fred situation getting peanuts.

 

[Sir Chapman]

Casemiro isnt a DLP. Amrabat would give us something we dont have that ETH has wanted for a while a DLP i.e. frenkie. But not of that elite class.

Theres a player analysis link of ambrarat thats been posted a few times, the lad is a passing machine in a possession based team. Medium/long passes being a favourire. Thats not what casemiro brings to utd or does for utd.

Im guessing that ETH wants a swiss army knife of options, different capabilities for different opposition setups.

I cant see bayern letting kimmich go.

Indeed, he would give us something we may not have but not that elite class. That’s why I am hoping there’s something concrete with Kimmich. In case we would get Amrabat, do you think ETH would play Casemiro and Amrabat day in day out?

I just have this feeling he would cover the departure of the likes of McFred in case they leave which would be a good deal as he is a DLP playing like a 8 defensively and has good passing range. However, to get on a different level we would need the likes of the ones mentioned above.

 

[dinostar77]

I’d say Caqueret is a DLP, then Lavia and Kone are a bit of a blend between a pure DM and DLP - ball playing DM if you like - which is how I would describe Casemiro.

Either way, we just need depth behind Casemiro as currently we only have McFred (who are both leaving we hope) and an 18 year old (who I think will go to the very top, but it’s too soon for him). So whether that’s a DLP or a (ball playing) DM, I don’t think it matter a whole lot.

I would just prefer a younger talent, who if we decide to sell in 3 years time, would be sellable with still a large part of the career ahead of the them so we’re not stuck with another Fred situation getting peanuts.

Indeed, he would give us something we may not have but not that elite class. That’s why I am hoping there’s something concrete with Kimmich. In case we would get Amrabat, do you think ETH would play Casemiro and Amrabat day in day out?

I just have this feeling he would cover the departure of the likes of McFred in case they leave which would be a good deal as he is a DLP playing like a 8 defensively and has good passing range. However, to get on a different level we would need the likes of the ones mentioned above.

Kimmich would be great i agree, but hes unobtainable. Especially as you could play him at RB and move him tactically into midfield for the "box midfield" that arteta and guardiola love so much to dominate posession.

Midfielders who that or fullbacks who can do that are few and far between.

I think ETH may tinker with the midfield trio depending on the opposition. We are going to play a high block now as we have Onana. We need to dominate posession and recycle it in a high block. Hence i can see both casemiro and amrabat both playing. Ones better at winning the ball than the other, the other is a better passer.

Kimmich would give us a completety different dimension to our play, but bayern would be mental to part with him.

Personally if the funds were available id take Cancelo from City as you could use him in a box midfield

 

[NLunited]

As a DLP not a DM who recovers and tackles, he is hard working but has less defensive actions than Fred or Mctominay

Stats don’t account for playstyle. At Fiorentina he plays next to another dm.

He recovered/intercepted/tackled a lot at the WC.

 

[NLunited]

I would personally love Lavia and thought Caicedo should have been our main midfield target at the start of the window however I think Fred's fee is what will essentially pay for the Amrabat transfer so it's not like it can be thrown into the kitty to supplement any bid for Lavia. Tbh, the fees we've already spent were the extent of what I thought was available and we're still talking about potentially spending another 85mn on Hojlund and Amrabat. Think we're just strapped and that €20/€25mn extra pushes us over the limit.

It's also possible that a City graduate just doesn't want to join United.

Lavia is not the finished article, we would be paying over the top for potential.