Usually your posts are level headed but this opinion is just batshit mental.
So now what happens to Karim Benzema? | Hat-tricks, lots of hat-tricks
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Not sure what the Prem has got to do with anything.
You have no idea what would and wouldn't have happened, you can only speculate.
Irrelevant. The players who scored 40+ goals in La Liga were Messi and Ronaldo and that one Suarez 15/16 season where he was fantastic on top of having Prime Messi and Prime Neymar creating for him.
Lewandowski is not Messi or Ronaldo.
The Bundesliga is an easier league than La Liga to score goals that much is an undeniable fact.
Other than the fact that he's clearly scoring less goals this season compared to last year in the BL? yea sure.
At age 34 in a brand new team in his first season at a club with a rookie coach that is also mired in financial and corruption scandals. If anything, that demonstrates that he would have scored hundreds of goals in La Liga had he spent the bulk of his career there and probably more than Bemzema, who is barely above 0.5 GPG for his entire career.
Excuses after excuses yikes, as if aging one year had suddenly made him forget how to play football.
He can't maintain the same level of goalscoring, hell he can't even perform in big games for Barcelona (which he already had an issue with at Bayern when his team wasn't completely domianting the opposition) and has to rely on scoring loads of goals against lower ranked teams.
The career GPG argument is ridiculous, I don't think Lewandowsi would even have lasted 2 seasons playing as a number 9 next to Ronaldo. He just doesn't offer enough as a player beyond pure goal numbers and they would have been heavily impacted by having such a goalscorer next to him that loves to drift in the middle to eat up the striker's space.
What we'll remember in 15 years is that Benzema has far more memorable big game performances against elite opposition than Lewandowski does, far more trophies, more CL K.O goals and a ballon d'or to top it all.
Not hat tricks against Bochum and Stuttgart.
The player who has most of these G+A in the KO stages against top teams. In this case, the 35 year old.
No they won't. They'll remember that Benz played second fiddle to a much better goalscorer fot most of his career and that he had no international career to speak of during a great period for France.
By the way, if RL has "forgotten how to play football', what's Benzema's excuse for having less goals and assists in all comps in his own league and losing the league to RL?
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@giorno trying desperately hard to convince himself and everyone that Klopp’s Liverpool was one of the best teams ever.
This way he can feel even better because Madrid repeatedly beat one of the so called best teams ever.
It’s not like Madrid need any more confirmation, their CL record speaks volumes.
Strange but whatever.
This way he can feel even better because Madrid repeatedly beat one of the so called best teams ever.
It’s not like Madrid need any more confirmation, their CL record speaks volumes.
Strange but whatever.
If he's the best striker of the last 20 years then why was he playing second fiddle to another striker?
Lewandowski doesn't offer enough beyond pure goal numbers? Oh my..
Oh is this the ploy? Interesting. Far less impressive to say that Madrid beat a bunch of bottle jobs....
I mean I am not him so I am only guessing but what else could be the reason to call a team with 1 PL and 1 CL in 7 years (unmatched and eye watering success) one of the best teams ever.
Yeah small margins at times but that’s football, world cups are won so often by small margins or penalty shootouts, let alone the other competitions.
It’s a nonsense point. Were Leverkusen one of the best sides ever because they were in the hunt for 3 trophies in 2002 and lost each one in the final / final game of the season? Were we in 2009 where we lost the CL final and lost the FA Cup in the semis (but won the Carabao, PL, Club World Cup)?
To be fair to them, I've said in the past that they're starting to look a lot like Revie's Leeds. Finish second much more than they finish first. So you can say in both cases that they're great sides in an English context but not as good as the very best domestic teams and certainly nowhere near consideration on a European or world level.
However, the problem for this Liverpool team is that their history contains much more success than Leeds's does.
No, bundesliga was weak and the top level teams of the time weren't that good
Yes
We should get back to Benzema as soon as possible tbf.
1. Are you speaking for yourself here? No one will care about anything related to Cristiano. Not like RL or LS are fit to lace Cristiano's boots. And RL's international career won't be cared about by anyone that isn't Polish either so that's once again a moot point.
The massive gap in their big game performances and CL trophies however isn't going away, neither is the ballon d'or.
2. An injury free RL on a more consistent team is barely ahead of Benzema who was out for most of the 1st part of the season in the Golden Boot race while getting dunked on in the head to head confrontation (5 goals to 1) and ghosting every big game in Europe.
Now who's making excuses? RL has more goals and is going to win the league in his first season in Benzema's league. Those are the facts. Making excuses about a 'more consistent team' when Real Madrid are the defending Spanish and Eutopean champions with one of the greatest managers of all time just sounds weak. Just the other day the BT Sport pundits were saying that they thought Madrid had improved compared to last season.
And of course the fact that Benzema played second fiddle is going to be remembered by everyone because it's not even a partnership of near equals like DiStefano and Puskas, where Puskas outscored DiStefano at times. It's a very clear Madrid alpha in Ronaldo and a very clear beta in Benzema. For almost 10 years.
You are making excuses.
Lewandowski has ghosted decisive games against Madrid,Bayern and Manchester United this season.
Lewandowski was played on the most functional team in Europe for most of his career yet only managed to win a single UCL title with them and one in which he scored over 73% of his goals in the groupstage and the 27% remaining ones in games where his team was already leading.
The head to head doesn't lie, it's 5 goals to 1.
And as I said before this is irrelevant to the current discussion because Cristiano Ronaldo belongs in an entirely different class compared to the players we are discussing here.
Beside your argument is not even good since Benzema has been better as the main man than he was when Cristiano was there and more importantly he has won everything as the main man as well, in a far more impressive fashion than Lewandowski.
Saying that he will be remembered as a "second fiddle" is outright wrong. He's won 2 Ligas and a CL since Ronaldo left.
He will be remembered as a second fiddle. A support act. That's what he was for the bulk of his career. A beta. He stepped to the fore well after Ronaldo left but he was not 'the guy' for the majority of the time.
The most functional team in Europe? Unprovable, ill-defined nonsense. Head to head means nothing, it's a tiny sample size and they play against defenders, not each other.
The fact of the matter is that RL has been the top scorer of his team for every single trophy he has won (including the one he's about to win in Spain over KB and Madrid) and KB was a support act for 10 years to a guy who scored twice as many goals as he did. He's still, what 100 goals behind CR's Madrid record now? And CR left 5 years ago? Yeah he ain't catching that.
These are the facts, take them or leave them
Ok I got it.
Since you're short of arguments in the Benzema vs Lewandowski debate you're turning the discussion into Benzema vs Cristiano.
Nice of you to admit the former comparison is settled then.
Not at all. The fact that Benzema was reliant for 10 years on a much better goalscorer hurts him in the number 9 comparison with Lewandowski, who has been the guy and won virtually every trophy he has won as the top scorer in his team, including the ones with Borussia Dortmund and Barcelona; re your silly 'H2H' point, you may have forgotten that RL's Dortmund played Real Madrid in the semi-final of the CL in 2013. RL scored 4 goals, Benzema scored one. And that is when he was playing for Dortmund, not Bayern, against the historical might of Madrid. So anyone can cherry pick one or 2 games re H2H which is why your point in that regard was asinine.
If you play second fiddle for 10 years, it hurts you in the comparison with a player who has always been the top goalscorer in his team. It's a pretty simple construction for someone who actually understands how football works.
To frame it as a question, name one competition Real Madrid won during the BBC era where Benzema was the top Madrid scorer. We know he was nowhere near it in La Liga and the CL but I'll take anything. Copa Del Rey, Spanish Super Cup, UEFA Super Cup, Club World Cup, Audi Cup, Intertoto Cup, Bits-and-pieces-one-game-cup, anything at all. Just one. Name one?
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Yeah, absolutely not.
He will be remembered as one of the - if not the most - eclectic, multifaceted strikers to ever play football, per fact.
What you mention shows great strength, not weakness.
I put to you the same question I put to his number one super fan. Think of great forwards that played together. Maybe one scored more than the other but the other guy usually was the top scorer at least sometimes when the team won a trophy. Think Puskas and DiStefano. DiStefano was the leader of the team but Puskas outscored him at times when they won a trophy. Or Messi and Suarez similarly.
But you're being disingenuous with the question, or not considering it in its entirety: Benzema, unlike, Puskas, was not seen as a peer to Ronaldo, he was 'merely' there to facilitate and serve, which he did (superbly) without complaint or ego; he was also not of the stature to act bigger than his place, which is not the case when it comes to Puskas. This is not to say Puskas acted out, rather, he was already considered one of, if not the best player in the world long before touching base in Madrid. So 'partner' is not an appropriate term and I've not heard anyone but yourself call them a partnership; they weren't.
But that's by the by, as the point here is Benzema executed what he was there to do (get the very best out of Ronaldo) with aplomb. Benzema sacrificed his game and that's evidenced by how many facets he's shown - and shone in - the moment he got promoted to main man and took centre stage for himself. Ronaldo would never have allowed that, which presents the antithesis of a partner.
To be so adept as server and leader is extremely rare; most players of such calibre also have far too big an ego to entertain the notion of facilitating others in lieu of their own game and glory.
This all sounds great. Except for the fact that Asensio and Bale managed to be the top scorer in some of the minor trophies I was asking about. Similarly, Wayne Rooney had to sublimate his game in a similar fashiom to Benz when he played with Ronaldo (he has spoken about this on Gary Neville's Soccerbox). Yet when United won the Club World Cup, Rooney was the top scorer, not CR.
So I wasn't asking for much. I know CR was usually the top scorer. I was just asking for a showing in even a minor trophy where Benz stepped to the fore in the BBC era as the top scorer. Seeing as he's supposedly so much better than RL who has been top scoring for his teams in almost every competition he has won for multiple clubs.
If you can't answer the question, please say so.
PS: I never called them a partnership or partners.
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There's a reason you mentioned forward lines as a union, which is fair enough if all is equal between them, but Benzema was there to facilitate and serve Ronaldo, his own personal development as goalscorer be damned, so it's not the same. You'd be better off mentioning other forward lines where one is just there to enhance another - a Firmino in with Salah, type of list.
And when you talk about a showing, it can only be with goals, not performance?
When has Lewandowski ever been in a team to serve and facilitate a bigger dog than himself? The parameters during that period of a career are likely to differ from when a player becomes the main man, as the Rooney you mention displayed also.
Just to add re. Rooney and Ronaldo - the Ronaldo Rooney played with was not the same full-fledged beast he went on to become at Real; is it speculative to consider his role would have attenuated in the presence of the goalscorer Ronaldo went on to become?
To be clear, at no point was Lewandowski the best player at BvB. It was only at Bayern under Guardiola that he fully exploded as one of the best strikers to ever play
No one said anything about 'best player'. I was talking about the main burden of the goalscoring being on him throughout his entire career, which it has been, and it hasn't been on Benzema. Seeing as they're both number 9s.
It was the same at Dortmund, contrary to what you say. They won the league in 2012, Lewandowski was the team's top scorer. They won the Cup in 2012, Lewandowski was the team's top scorer and the top scorer in the competition. They reached the final of the CL in 2013, RL was the team's top scorer and the second top scorer in the competition, 2 goals behind Ronaldo (Dortmund knocked Madrid out in the semi final behind 4 goals from RL).
It's an interesting take. The issue with @Andrade take is that it seems extremely derogatory, for two reasons first because Benzema is and has always been an exceptional Footballer that has indeed focused on serving the team more than himself. Now he didn't do it due to a lack of talent or mental fortitude but because he was paired with one of the best player in the game's history. The truth is that Benzema contributed greatly to Ronaldo's ability to score for fun by being arguably the best facilitator in the game.
My guess is that Benzema will be remembered for a handful of things. Real Madrid's most prolific assist maker, the player that led a successful Real Madrid after Ronaldo, a prolific goalscorer in the CL, a blackmailer(true or not) and prostitute consumer.
My guess is that Benzema will be remembered for a handful of things. Real Madrid's most prolific assist maker, the player that led a successful Real Madrid after Ronaldo, a prolific goalscorer in the CL, a blackmailer(true or not) and prostitute consumer.
Firminho was the top scorer in the club world cup when Liverpool won that so even he has an example of something I've asked re Benzema in the BBC era. A question that you still haven't answered, with all due respect.
You are missing the point of what I'm saying, which is the notion that Benzema is a far better number 9 than Lewandowski is predicated on recency bias and people with very short memories. I'd say the same for people that think he is necessarily better than Suarez. Just because you age better or are better post 30, it doesn't mean you are actually better overall.
It's basically boiling down being a better number 9 to scoring more goals and because RL has more goals he's better. The thing that trumps goals though is winning and KB has been a part of a lot more winning than RL has. The ability to influence a game beyond goals, to play different positions and do different jobs on the pitch that is what sets players like Benzema and Rooney apart.
Why would that be predicated on recency bias? The recency bias that you are refering to represents the last 4 seasons which isn't a short time and not so recent, during that period of time Benzema has shown that he is a top scorer that can lead a successful team without Ronaldo. Benzema has also shown that with Ronaldo he can act as arguably the best facilitator in the game and rely on his technique and football sense to make the team work.
The reason Benzema has a case for being better overall is because he has actually shown that he was at different period in his career a better goals scorer and also a better facilitator than every other number 9.
Being a number 9 is mostly about scoring goals. And he has 200 more. In one more season, RL will be knocking on the door of 700 career goals. It's quite a significant gap.
And Benzema hasn't been part of more winning except in the Champions League where in only one of his 5 wins was he the guy with the main scoring burden. Plus he played in a team with 2 other Ballon D'Or winners (which helps) at a club which won lots of CLs before he got there and will probably win loads after he leaves. Also worth pointing out that RL has a much better GTG ratio in the CL and has also reached the final with 2 different clubs as the top scorer
By the way, I think RL's ability to 'do different things' is a bit underrated, as his play for Poland indicates.
That's a nice way to convince people to have civil discussions with you.The best facilitator in the game?!?!
It was a ridiculously hyperbolic statement, I'm sorry to say.
And it was a moronic post of yours, I'm not really sorry to say.