So Jose Was Right?

Revaulx said:
Can you point to a source?
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Sir Alex Ferguson himself - he didn't sell Pogba because of Raiola, (although admittedly he didn't like the guy) or the price asked by him for Pogba's new contract. SAF deemed Pogba wasn't playing the way he wanted him to do in midfield and he brought Scholesy out of retirement to cover the gap.
 
Mourinho is a wanker. I hope we face Roma in the EL final and beat the piss out of them. It would wind him up so much.
 
Revaulx said:
Fair enough.

I struggled to understand those quotes, other than getting a general impression that Jose was complimenting Pogba. And just because it was a club signing doesn’t mean that Jose was opposed to it. Which was the point I was making all along.
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Fair point. And that is why it is quite silly to talk about Jose being right. He was wrong when it really mattered. On numerous accounts, really repeating the mistake of sanctioning huge money on players with attitude or mentality issues.

Woodward did not help. But Woodwards mistake was hiring Mou, and then accepting his demand about not working with a DoF.
 
Mourinho was wrong the moment he joined the club. And it was Woodward's biggest mistake in his tenure to allow Mourinho to operate independently from the club's newly formed recruitment structure. Where around 50 full-time scouts were brought into the club in 2016, and the guys at the transfer ground guru said it was one of the most impressive line-up of scouts they had come across. Just to give one example, the scout from Genk in Belgium was brought in and he's the scout who is credited with discovering the likes of De Bruyne and Courtois. But if your manager refuses to work with the club's newly formed recruitment structure and decides he wants to work with his own independent scouts and is allowed to do so, then the car crash is just around the corner. So we repeated Liverpool's mistakes where they agreed to Rodgers' conditions of not wanting to work with Michael Edwards and the people running recruitment and hence Liverpool were forced into creating a transfer committee with two parties (manager v club structure) constantly being in disagreement.

And as the telegraph journo Jason Burt put it, every signing made during Mourinho's tenure was his own signing supported by his own independent scouts. And that was allowed to happen by Woodward, even after the recruitment revamp was close to completion which was completed in 2016. That is as dumb as it gets because in that situation you can't best utilise the scouting network or develop the football structure to a high level. Mourinho only cared about himself and his CV/resume and didn't care about developing the club's newly formed football structure and hence we gave rival clubs a massive advantage due to those clubs appointing high calibre head coaches who were comfortable working under a group of people who supported the head coach with data science , scouting, sports science etc to improve performance at all levels, which would help the head coach.

So it's nothing to do with signing Pogba but rather not knowing how to develop a football structure due to signing managers like Mourinho and not signing head coaches like Klopp. Because Klopp understood that his success is linked to the development of Liverpool's football structure and hence he went to Liverpool and worked with the club's football structure and not without them.
 
Maticmaker said:
Sir Alex Ferguson himself - he didn't sell Pogba because of Raiola, (although admittedly he didn't like the guy) or the price asked by him for Pogba's new contract. SAF deemed Pogba wasn't playing the way he wanted him to do in midfield and he brought Scholesy out of retirement to cover the gap.
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Pogba was ready to play and expected mins. SAF didnt give much chance to Pogba before new year. After new year SAF knew that Raiola had already signed Pogba to another team, So didnt wanted to entertain any minutes for Pogba in next months.
Juventus players were surprised by quality of Pogba in first training sessions. It is United's loss.
 
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Maticmaker said:
Sir Alex Ferguson himself - he didn't sell Pogba because of Raiola, (although admittedly he didn't like the guy) or the price asked by him for Pogba's new contract. SAF deemed Pogba wasn't playing the way he wanted him to do in midfield and he brought Scholesy out of retirement to cover the gap.
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Interesting! I hadn’t heard that.
 
432JuanMata said:
While I hated his football and his throw the toys out of the pram attitude he didn’t rate Martial either Rashford, called Shaw lazy, overweight and then Pogba was a virus. All seem to be close to true now.

While Jose might of been the wrong choice and threw his toys out of the pram in the 3rd summer transfer window as he didn’t get what he wanted he did prove we chose players over manager and if that happens this summer we are screwed.

Whoever the manager is he needs to be considered the right man and put ahead of players no matter what
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You might, charitably, give him Pogba, but he signed the cnut so I'm afraid it's a zero score for Jose. He was a busted flush and skidmark of a person who should never have been associated with Manchester United. I've never seen such cowardly, dull football and embarrassing behaviour from a United manager.

A dark era in our history that's best forgotten.
 
I always wanted Jose to follow SAF, perhaps it might have worked out if that had been the case….but looking at ETH and pining for Jose seems weird. It’s like pining for dross like Juan Mata, cos he was a nice guy, when you’ve got the likes of Casemiro and Martinez.
 
andersj said:
Mourinho wanted him at Chelsea too.

Would Gill have been able to push Pogba on Ferguson? Would Arnold have been able to push him on EtH? I’m pretty confident that is two «no».

Furthermore, this was a type of signing we did quite a few of in Mourinhos time here. Superstars that turned out to have poor attitude. Lukaku and Sanchez two others.
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Yes - Also, to move the convo away from Pogba, let's look at another player he disliked and badmouthed Luke Shaw. However, it's well documented he tried to sign Shaw at Chelsea. So make your mind Jose fans.
 
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Jeppers7 said:
I always wanted Jose to follow SAF, perhaps it might have worked out if that had been the case….but looking at ETH and pining for Jose seems weird. It’s like pining for dross like Juan Mata, cos he was a nice guy, when you’ve got the likes of Casemiro and Martinez.
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Yep, that was without doubt the time for him.
He'd have been the only guy certain he could better the success!

We got him way too late, well into meltdown mode, but it had to happen or we'd always have wondered what if.
Same with Ronaldo returning really.
Satisfied the forever what if.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Things would have been far better if Mourinho managed Manchester United RIGHT AFTER Fergie's retirement. He would have come with more respect and that dressing room still full of "hard men" (Vidic, Rio, Evra, Rooney...etc) would have appealed him more than the soft type like Pogba, Lingard, Martial...etc. Things may still have gone south in his 3rd season but at least the wheel wouldn't have completely gone off like with Moyes. We lost a fair share of our "aura" and respect during that Moyes tenure too.
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I definitely believe mourinho was the right choice to replace fergie, I did at the time and still do now, no matter what people say of his time at real he took a team that wasn't getting past the last 16 for so many years and made them into a team that reached a semi final every single season. Had he won the penalty shootout against bayern in 2012, his team that season would be regarded as an all time great, as I'd imagine they'd have beaten Chelsea. And he clearly was still gifted enough as his time at Chelsea showed. But he definitely wouldn't have signed on without assurances over transfer spending, he wouldn't have settled for fellaini as a sole summer signing.

The moyes season definitely did change things, finishing 7th, losing at home to teams we'd never lose to under fergie, in some ways we haven't recovered from that. The team was on its last legs regardless, but it was a massive challenge, not just taking over from the most successful manager ever, but taking over a team that had won the league but basically needed a complete rebuild as well. There were only two choices, Mourinho or guardiola, and we went with moyes
 
I love this thread, titled "So Jose Was Right?"

Jose was right about nothing, other than perhaps trivial matters such as the condition of the training facilities and the like. His tactical approach to the game was an abomination, his transfer targets were all wrong, and his constant negativity and paranoia was a disgrace.
 
Herman Toothrot said:
You might, charitably, give him Pogba, but he signed the cnut so I'm afraid it's a zero score for Jose. He was a busted flush and skidmark of a person who should never have been associated with Manchester United. I've never seen such cowardly, dull football and embarrassing behaviour from a United manager.

A dark era in our history that's best forgotten.
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I made this thread along time ago and before Ten Haag a lot of what Jose said was true. Also just because he signed Pogba doesn’t take away his point as he was right to sign him for his quality but then seen what his attitude etc was like.

Jose won us trophies and is still the best manager we had since SAF but I agree that it was dark and it’s finally looking positive under a proper manager that plays the right way and has the right standards for this club
 
432JuanMata said:
I made this thread along time ago and before Ten Haag a lot of what Jose said was true. Also just because he signed Pogba doesn’t take away his point as he was right to sign him for his quality but then seen what his attitude etc was like.

Jose won us trophies and is still the best manager we had since SAF but I agree that it was dark and it’s finally looking positive under a proper manager that plays the right way and has the right standards for this club
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So in the end Jose was only "right" about his own mistakes? Ok, I'll give him that.
 
432JuanMata said:
I made this thread along time ago and before Ten Haag a lot of what Jose said was true. Also just because he signed Pogba doesn’t take away his point as he was right to sign him for his quality but then seen what his attitude etc was like.

Jose won us trophies and is still the best manager we had since SAF but I agree that it was dark and it’s finally looking positive under a proper manager that plays the right way and has the right standards for this club
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I disagree. EtH is the best manager post-SAF. And Jose was wrong about Rashford and Shaw. When you started this thread under a year ago, you said he was right to not rate Rashford and call Shaw lazy and overweight. Do you still feel that way?
 
York said:
I disagree. EtH is the best manager post-SAF. And Jose was wrong about Rashford and Shaw. When you started this thread under a year ago, you said he was right to not rate Rashford and call Shaw lazy and overweight. Do you still feel that way?
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I am not including ETH as I stated before this season he was right and this club plus certain players where a mess.

ETH is obviously the best manager we have had post SAF and the reason I replied was the fact I opened this thread a long time ago and this season has changed my opinion on a lot over the last few years
 
lex talionis said:
So in the end Jose was only "right" about his own mistakes? Ok, I'll give him that.
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As I stated I opened this thread a long time ago and at the time I asked the question. Just remember before ETH this season what I said in the OP was that Pogba was a virus(showing it in Juve) Martial he didn’t rate(injuries don’t help) and also remember on here in the summer most wanted rid of Rashford plus Shaw was still inconsistent.

Right now ETH has proven some of Jose’s points to be wrong and I’m happy they are
 
432JuanMata said:
I am not including ETH as I stated before this season he was right and this club plus certain players where a mess.

ETH is obviously the best manager we have had post SAF and the reason I replied was the fact I opened this thread a long time ago and this season has changed my opinion on a lot over the last few years
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He was dead wrong about Rashford and Shaw. Amazing what a difference a proper manager makes. The talent and drive were there but Jose was unable to bring it out of Rashford and Shaw, and perhaps others.
 
York said:
He was dead wrong about Rashford and Shaw. Amazing what a difference a proper manager makes. The talent and drive were there but Jose was unable to bring it out of Rashford and Shaw, and perhaps others.
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I agree he is wrong now but when I opened the thread even the caf wanted rid of both. Go back to the summer and most of the caf wanted Rashford gone even saying if PSG want they will drive him to the airport.

I do however agree with your point that Jose failed to get the best of them and ETH has proven that there was potential in both.

As I said the thread is old and now it looks like Jose was wrong as we got a proper coach who has made them WC which he failed to do
 
432JuanMata said:
I agree he is wrong now but when I opened the thread even the caf wanted rid of both. Go back to the summer and most of the caf wanted Rashford gone even saying if PSG want they will drive him to the airport.

I do however agree with your point that Jose failed to get the best of them and ETH has proven that there was potential in both.

As I said the thread is old and now it looks like Jose was wrong as we got a proper coach who has made them WC which he failed to do
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Yep agree.
 
So, after duping the club into spending a record transfer fee on a player, he shortly after turned and said "Oh remember that player I told you to pull out all stops to sign? Turns out he's a fecking virus! Now get rid of him cause you can just move a 80 million asset on my whim."

How Mourinho chauvinists have the gall to bring this one up, as an argument in favor of their detestable idol, as an example of him being right, is just a mystery to me.
 
Moonwalker said:
So, after duping the club into spending a record transfer fee on a player, he shortly after turned and said "Oh remember that player I told you to pull out all stops to sign? Turns out he's a fecking virus! Now get rid of him cause you can just move a 80 million asset on my whim."

How Mourinho chauvinists have the gall to bring this one up, as an argument in favor of their detestable idol, as an example of him being right, is just a mystery to me.
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Actually while Jose brought him in I still feel what he said is correct. Pogba when we signed him was one of the best CM’s in the world and it was signing everyone was excited about but as we seen the attitude didn’t match the talent and he was indeed a virus.

As I have stated above I opened this thread a long time ago when the players he called out where proving him right but ETH has changed my option after seeing what he has done with Rashford, Shaw and others that where deemed not good enough. He showed that Jose was the problem as he was the one not getting the best out these players
 
432JuanMata said:
Actually while Jose brought him in I still feel what he said is correct. Pogba when we signed him was one of the best CM’s in the world and it was signing everyone was excited about but as we seen the attitude didn’t match the talent and he was indeed a virus.

As I have stated above I opened this thread a long time ago when the players he called out where proving him right but ETH has changed my option after seeing what he has done with Rashford, Shaw and others that where deemed not good enough. He showed that Jose was the problem as he was the one not getting the best out these players
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If you convince people to spend big money (indeed a record) on someone, you are responsible and need to be accountable for your choice. Sir Alex actually went to lengths to inquire about the personality of the player before they were signed, met their parents to see how tall they were, asked other managers about them. To the extent that Pogba was unmanageable, Mourinho can't take credit for suddenly realising that after the fact, without also shouldering some of the blame for signing him in the first place.
 
Feck Jose.

Doesn't matter a single thing, if he was 'right', then, now or in the future. He was a shite coach and manager for Man Utd and that's what he should be judged on, not self absolving, deflective comments for the headlines.
 
Moonwalker said:
If you convince people to spend big money (indeed a record) on someone, you are responsible and need to be accountable for your choice. Sir Alex actually went to lengths to inquire about the personality of the player before they were signed, met their parents to see how tall they were, asked other managers about them. To the extent that Pogba was unmanageable, Mourinho can't take credit for suddenly realising that after the fact, without also shouldering some of the blame for signing him in the first place.
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I don’t think he should get credit I just asked was he right in the end. As stated since ETH it shows Jose was the problem as his opinion on Shaw and Rashford is wrong. ETH showed that Jose was holding them back and if Martial wasn’t so injury prone I think he would of got the best out of him too
 
432JuanMata said:
I don’t think he should get credit I just asked was he right in the end. As stated since ETH it shows Jose was the problem as his opinion on Shaw and Rashford is wrong. ETH showed that Jose was holding them back and if Martial wasn’t so injury prone I think he would of got the best out of him too
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He wasn't, he signed a fecking virus.
 
Was he right in wanting the club to get rid of his expensive feck up? Yes, what a visionary he was.
 
Moonwalker said:
He wasn't, he signed a fecking virus.
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To be fair I agree with most of your opinion. Jose was a virus aswell and I try not to think about him anymore. This season and having ETH has made me forgot the miserable last 10 years and countless crap managers
 
Jose was wrong, and has been wrong about almost everything else in the jobs he's had since.

Guy is a managerial legend but his time is long past.
 
432JuanMata said:
To be fair I agree with most of your opinion. Jose was a virus aswell and I try not to think about him anymore. This season and having ETH has made me forgot the miserable last 10 years and countless crap managers
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I'm always hopelessly lost when I meet agreeable people. But yeah, we definitely have a better manager now. Hope he doesn't spawn an army sycophantic fanatics like some of his predecessors.
 
Moonwalker said:
I'm always hopelessly lost when I meet agreeable people. But yeah, we definitely have a better manager now. Hope he doesn't spawn an army sycophantic fanatics like some of his predecessors.
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I was never a fanatic of any manager as I always felt if they do a good job they will stay and be backed.

I was always criticised for saying Ole wasn’t good enough and my answer was I’m a United fan and Ole is a legend It would be a dream to be taking back to glory by a legend but some couldn’t see through the nostalgia.

I don’t get fanatics on managers and players I only care about the club. I always change my opinions on players I criticised Shaw, Dalot, Fred etc saying they weren’t good enough but this season proves I’m wrong. I just don’t understand when people don’t change their opinion when a player etc proves them wrong
 
Sorry…..this ‘virus’ thing that is suddenly being spouted as a fact again. Their are multiple reports to the contrary from the likes of Wayne Rooney about how professional Pogba was, dedicated etc. Then you’ve got the lack of anyone bar Jose having any complaints about managing Pogba……Oh and then you’ve got 5 years of evidence at United where through the entire time he was picked to start in over 90% of the games he was available through every season he was here….Because that is what managers do with a virus….keep them for the duration of a five year contract and play them whenever possible.

Grow up, he’s gone. He did far more for us than most of the dross he played with and won more than a lot of the current squad have with us to date. He came back from injury early to play and came back after a World Cup early with no pre season. In addition he was always one of the better players, why not put a thread up for the likes of Juan Mata who was an embarrassment of a club record signing…but lovely fella.
 
Moonwalker said:
So, after duping the club into spending a record transfer fee on a player, he shortly after turned and said "Oh remember that player I told you to pull out all stops to sign? Turns out he's a fecking virus! Now get rid of him cause you can just move a 80 million asset on my whim."

How Mourinho chauvinists have the gall to bring this one up, as an argument in favor of their detestable idol, as an example of him being right, is just a mystery to me.
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Also remember the 2 center backs you got for me, turns out they are not good now get me Harry maguire.
 
Sandikan said:
Yep, that was without doubt the time for him.
He'd have been the only guy certain he could better the success!

We got him way too late, well into meltdown mode, but it had to happen or we'd always have wondered what if.
Same with Ronaldo returning really.
Satisfied the forever what if.
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Yeah for me the biggest red flag was the end of the Real Madrid stint when half the squad didn’t talk to him. Then he did the same at Chelsea. His tactics were outdated and his ego was too big to accept it.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Sorry…..this ‘virus’ thing that is suddenly being spouted as a fact again. Their are multiple reports to the contrary from the likes of Wayne Rooney about how professional Pogba was, dedicated etc. Then you’ve got the lack of anyone bar Jose having any complaints about managing Pogba……Oh and then you’ve got 5 years of evidence at United where through the entire time he was picked to start in over 90% of the games he was available through every season he was here….Because that is what managers do with a virus….keep them for the duration of a five year contract and play them whenever possible.

Grow up, he’s gone. He did far more for us than most of the dross he played with and won more than a lot of the current squad have with us to date. He came back from injury early to play and came back after a World Cup early with no pre season. In addition he was always one of the better players, why not put a thread up for the likes of Juan Mata who was an embarrassment of a club record signing…but lovely fella.
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There’s also a good argument to say that Jose managed Pogba so ineffectively that it impacted on the rest of his career. There’s no way of proving it, but Pogba plays for Pep at 23 and we might seen a completely different player to what we have now.
 
Dan_F said:
There’s also a good argument to say that Jose managed Pogba so ineffectively that it impacted on the rest of his career. There’s no way of proving it, but Pogba plays for Pep at 23 and we might seen a completely different player to what we have now.
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Or Pep might have given Pogba the Yaya Toure treatment. After all, wasn't Pogba offered to City by his agent around the time of that Manchester Derby?
 
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