Sanchez is absolutely the integral part! Replacing him by DDG, Dunk will become laughing stock rather than one of the best in the league widely acknowledged.
Should we renew De Gea's contract?
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I don't think the manager is in charge of handing out new contracts. That's what we have a DOF and the entire football operations department for.
Are you saying nobody asks ETH? Or nobody cares what ETH wants?
His input matters, definitely. But he doesn't have full power over contracts and transfers, nor should he (or any other manager for that matter).
Yeah I suppose that just shows how ludicrous his contract is.
We've got a DOF?
We don't need backup lads, we just need a very good first choice GK who doesn't need a very good number 2 to push him to be a good keeper.
I'm all for not renewing De Gea's contract if we can find the right replacement.
However, I will say that I think ETH won't bin De Gea if he cannot get a very good replacement. I know a lot of people cite how Pep got rid of Hart for Bravo, but that didn't exactly work out for him that year and Bravo was benched. If we get a goalkeeper of that level it might just cost ETH the job for us missing top 4. Don't forget that already then City had a better team than what we have now and Pep is arguable the best coach in the world.
However, I will say that I think ETH won't bin De Gea if he cannot get a very good replacement. I know a lot of people cite how Pep got rid of Hart for Bravo, but that didn't exactly work out for him that year and Bravo was benched. If we get a goalkeeper of that level it might just cost ETH the job for us missing top 4. Don't forget that already then City had a better team than what we have now and Pep is arguable the best coach in the world.
Should renew but go down in wages, but it all depends what we can replace with. He has his - & + in a known quantity. I trust ETH on this.
How did changing Hart for Bravo not work out for Guardiola? City conceded less goals, finished higher in the table and got 12 more points than the previous year.
He made errors and was never going to be their long term number one but he was a case in point to show that finding an average goalkeeper better suited to your style of play - such as both him and Caballero that season - were better options than continuing with a goalkeeper not suited to the managers desired style of play.
Bravo didnt work out, but his type of goalkeeper eventually did. It first really became good with Ederson the next season.
it sort of proves itself - if Bravo was good, he wouldnt have played Caballero or even bought Ederson.
Sanchez and Raya are stable and decent keepers, but I also fear a keeper like that will not save us like De Gea does numerous times a season.
it’s like Yann Sommer against that Rodri goal a couple of CL weeks ago. De Gea would have saved that as one of the few goalkeepers but not many normal decent keepers would have. He has maybe made 2-4 mistakes this season but also made at least 10 wonderful saves that has given us points. Hard to say whether Sanchez/Raya will save some of those and if it’s worth more that they can play with their feet more. We can only really tell by trying.
it’s like Yann Sommer against that Rodri goal a couple of CL weeks ago. De Gea would have saved that as one of the few goalkeepers but not many normal decent keepers would have. He has maybe made 2-4 mistakes this season but also made at least 10 wonderful saves that has given us points. Hard to say whether Sanchez/Raya will save some of those and if it’s worth more that they can play with their feet more. We can only really tell by trying.
"Should we renew De Gea's contract?" should be changed to "Should we renew De Gea's contract at half price?". I answered "yes" but only if salary is much lower. Right now we have urgent need for a striker and it is highest priority.
So giving new contracts is done without the managers consent? I guess buying players must be the same then?
Or are you talking complete horseshit?
Widely acknowledged by whom? Brighton fans?
Somehow I think the biggest factor between the 15/16 and 16/17 season wasn't the change of goalkeeper. It's hard to label Bravo a success in City since he was benched in his first season for underperforming and then binned after that. The change of goalkeeper obviously worked out in the long run since they got Ederson who fits Guardiola's style perfectly.
My point was never that we shouldn't go for a keeper that is good enough, my point is that if Ten Hag bins de Gea and only manages to get a stop gap goalkeeper such as Bravo it might prove costly.
Did you not see my reply where I said the manager's input is important, but he doesn't have complete control? Or are you illiterate?
Who has labelled him a success? City made a move to get rid of a goalkeeper who hindered their play style and played goalkeepers who allowed them to play a higher line and build from the back. It is pertinent to note that it wasn't a case of "sign Bravo to replace Hart" either - Hart was replaced immediately by Guardiola, Cabellero started the first few games of the season for them and Bravo was signed to take his place, not Hart's. Cabellero ended up winning his place back, which is largely irrelevant here because the message to take away is that an average goalkeeper well suited to your style of play is better than what many deemed to be a good goalkeeper at the time who was not suited to their style of play.
They then spent big on a goalkeeper who built upon the groundwork laid in the first season but the important point regarding that first season wasn't that they signed Bravo - it was that they got rid of Hart.
The "manager" shouldn't be in charge of player recruitment or contract renewals.
We, as United fans, should get used to this idea.
Of course, the "manager" (in this case ETH) should be very much involved in the decision making, but it should not be his call).
In a (very hypothetical, I hope) scenario where ETH wants to extend DDG's contract for another five years, on the same terms, he should be informed by a superior (that would be Murtough - yes, he should be above ETH in the chain of command) that this is not possible.
(He should also be informed that it's feckin' stupid for all sorts of reasons - but whatever, this is hypothetical, I don't think ETH considers DDG an ideal goal keeper at all.)
You sort of implied it was a successful move since " City conceded less goals, finished higher in the table and got 12 more points than the previous year ". I'd credit all those things to the fact that they replaced a mediocre coach with the best coach in the world and that he had an open check book. It's also highly contestable whether the average goalkeeper well suited to Guardiola's style of play actually made them better that particular year. Getting Ederson clearly made them into a very different side.
Yeah, sure, the important thing was that they got rid of Hart. And if Ten Hag had many years at his disposal despite not getting good results he should absolutely do this straight away. The issue for Ten Hag is that he probably needs to at least get top 4 next season to keep his job and binning de Gea for the sake of the "message" might not be a smart thing to do if can't get a replacement better than (say) someone of Bravo's quality. Again, if we can get someone good enough we should make the change yesterday.
You have no clue what you're talking about.Dunk has quietly been one of the best CBs in the league in all manner of systems. The fact he is excelling in a more technical and progressive team is testament to his quality.
And Sanchez - while I rate him highly - lost his place to Jason Steele about two months ago. How integral can he be when Steele has stepped in and not looked out of place?
You're right in that I didn't word it well initially but ultimately replacing what most considered to be a good goalkeeper at the time with his understudy and an average goalkeeper, both of whom were better suited to the desired style of play, was a successful move because it resulted in them finishing higher with more points and conceding less goals. I don't think that's a debate really, I take the point about the open cheque book but that was already there so it's not something that changed.
The point I'm getting at, is while Bravo and Cabellero weren't overly good goalkeepers; because of their stylistic suitability to the way Guardiola wanted his team to play they were an improvement on Hart, despite being lesser shot stoppers at the time. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case with our team, if we brought in a goalkeeper that wasn't an outstanding shot stopper but did dominate his area and allowed the team to play a higher line (rather than having the 4th deepest line on average in the entire league because of a goalkeeper terrified of leaving his line) the likelihood is that the overall improvement would outset the loss of a marginally better shotstopper. Particularly given that De Gea has been particularly erratic with his shotstopping this season, either very good or very bad with very little in between.
Half price is still the second highest paid GK in the league. So if it's a 4 year deal for a player we won't be able to sell (on those wages), that means he will likely be first choice for the next few years.
That's why I voted no, if it was just for a year, it would be a yes. It's the contract coming up this summer that makes it a priority to me (behind a forward).
Nobody at Brighton is integral though, they are all interchangeable which is how they have been building for several years. It's incredibly impressive.
Because Steele has been doing the things that Sanchez was doing last season and had stopped doing; he's been dominant with crosses, he's been quick off his line and he's been using the ball efficiently. The latter part he's been helped with as teams have started sitting off them more as they're being given more respect due to their attacking threat.
Brighton demand a dominant goalkeeper with how they play football, Sanchez fell off a cliff this season and Steele hasn't done anything spectacular but has come in and done the basics.
Given FFP, we can make so few moves in the next window that prioritising a GK would be flat-out bad management.
How about releasing DDG and keeping Henderson as a stop gap for one season then? Not the perfect solution, but probably the best one, given the FFP constraints.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree about what made CIty better that season - for me Guardiola was the big difference, and they had an improvement over the previous season despite whatever goalkeeper they had that season and not because of it.
I just think we need to be more careful than that, because City was a better team than us already back then if we disregard the goalkeeper (and they had a better manager) - I really don't think we have the luxury of having such a stop gap goalkeeper as they did that season. If it's fine if we fail to get top 4, then fine, go for it anyway. You might not agree with this, but that's my opinion.
Do you think we buy players or give contracts to players the manager doesnt want? Did you read what ETH said when he joined? About being in full control?
I never want to see Henderson in a United again, period
Ah, interesting development over there. I haven’t followed them closely and only watched some of their highlights. I thought Sanchez is still their first choice. The “integral” part is meant to emphasize the goalkeeper is integral part of their play. If they play someone like DDG or Lloris, it will be disastrous.
Dunk has quietly been one of the best CBs in the league in all manner of systems. The fact he is excelling in a more technical and progressive team is testament to his quality.
And Sanchez - while I rate him highly - lost his place to Jason Steele about two months ago. How integral can he be when Steele has stepped in and not looked out of place?
Did Ole ask for Ronaldo signing? You are overating how this club is run.
If ETH had a choice, he wouldve asked for Ronaldo replacement before season started.
He rightly wanted to give Ronaldo a shot in my opinion. I think he even said as much
Of course his was. He was over the moon with that signing. Ole has said that several times in Norwegian media.
How are our talented academy GK lads doing? At this point I'd rather have some kids in goal than Dave. At least with our lads, you know they'll get better.
I've seen Vitek pull out a world class save a couple of weeks back, but I've also seen him being dispossessed at the half way line.
Kovar is having a good loan apparently. And Bishop is pretty decent from what I've seen.
@Adnan do you have any updates mate?
I've seen Vitek pull out a world class save a couple of weeks back, but I've also seen him being dispossessed at the half way line.
Kovar is having a good loan apparently. And Bishop is pretty decent from what I've seen.
@Adnan do you have any updates mate?
I haven't watched Kovar for a while but the other lads like Bishop and Vitek either aren't good enough (Bishop) or in Vitek's case it's too early and he will need a Loan or two before a assessment can be made on him.
But imo the two best young keepers we have at the club are Vitek and Harrison. Harrison is still very young at 17, and several years away from appearing in a first team setting. But Harrison has the attributes to potentially develop into a goalkeeper that can play for a head coach that looks to build play from the back. Vitek needs to develop his on the ball capabilities and he has time on his side to do that. But Vitek is a Schmeichel/Oliver Kahn type of keeper who is the commanding/dominating type that just needs to add the ball playing to his arsenal to make him complete imo.
Also remember that young teenage keepers will make mistakes and that's part of the development process. Ederson (City) was released from Sao Paulo at 16 years of age due being deemed not good enough. And he only had a football career due to the agent Jorge Mendes taking chances on young players from Brazil, hence he ended up at Benfica.
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It seems like Pep has the final say at City. And it works very well so far.
85% against renewing his contract speaks volumes
ETH has. If he wants the player, he tells the board to find a way around it. It's as simple as that
He wanted to give everybody a chance to prove themselves. He is not a mourhino who will kick a player out before even his first training session
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