Should the FA implement the Rooney Rule ?

Should Premiership managers be interviewed on a quota system ?

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Raoul

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I like the rule in the NFL but, it would be much harder to implement in the PL. PS the Rooney rule is not a quota system.
 
Momochiru said:
No, it's a stupid rule. If someone has the talent for management they will get chances to show it.

For some reason there are very few top black managers - the only one I can think of is Rijkard.
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So it would seem if society were a fair place devoid of any discrimination. There are two black managers in the top 4 flights of English football, Keith Curle and Chris Powell.
 
No, forcing people to do things is just silly. Besides would it even make much of a difference? Especially for top jobs, if a club are targeting manager x, then they will likely pursue and get manager x regardless of this rule, no?

btw is this just for Blacks minorities? or do other minorities such as Latino or Asian count as well?
 
Fewer black footballers were playing amongst the current generation of new managers. This will change over the course of the next ten years, and theoretically, we will witness an increase in black managers. The Rooney Rule has no place here, and neither do quotas in most facets of life, to be frank.
 
No WR jokes yet? Impressive.

I'd like to see an equal employment and progression system rather than fast tracking ethnic minorities.
 
In 3 years the number of black coaches went from 6% to 22% according to wiki. Given the huge imbalance at the moment in the UK, sure why not give it a try. It's only making clubs interview minority candidates not actually forcing them to hire people they don't want, so where's the hardship?
 
Momochiru said:
No, it's a stupid rule. If someone has the talent for management they will get chances to show it.

For some reason there are very few top black managers - the only one I can think of is Rijkard.
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Not exactly. Being a professional athlete is probably the truest form of meritocracy we have in society. But, when it comes to coaching positions like any other high profiles position it mostly comes down to reputation and connections.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
No, forcing people to do things is just silly. Besides would it even make much of a difference? Especially for top jobs, if a club are targeting manager x, then they will likely pursue and get manager x regardless of this rule, no?

btw is this just for Blacks minorities? or do other minorities such as Latino or Asian count as well?
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I think its just for blacks - and they don't have to be hired, just one has to be included among those interviewed.
 
Raoul said:
So it would seem if society were a fair place devoid of any discrimination. There are two black managers in the top 4 flights of English football, Keith Curle and Chris Powell.
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Lets just a remember a few things about english football. A. for some stupid reason, top flight teams (ie top 4 leagues) have stupid ideas behind hiring ex players as managers because they somehow understand the game better and that these ex players bar a few exceptions (those exceptions usually world class players in their day) are british. Additionally, looking at the black players in England, I'd say a majority are not of british origin, thus when their playing careers are over, they leave. What we're left with is a small minority of black english talent of which a large portion won't be interested in managing. We then further dilute the availability of a managerial position to 100 jobs. Taking into account the incredible amount of variables (foreign managers etc) I don't particularly think that there is a significant issue regarding racism.
 
Raoul said:
I think its just for blacks - and they don't have to be hired, just one has to be included among those interviewed.
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It's minorities I believe, not just blacks. If it came in here it would certainly have to be, as asians make up more than twice the number of blacks in the UK, and are also badly under represented.
 
Also worth pointing out that the NFL has been mostly black since probably the 70s yet there was a ridiculous low amount of black coaches in the NFL(it is worse in the NCAA) so the rule there was much more necessary.
 
Momochiru said:
No, it's a stupid rule. If an ex-player has the talent for management they will get chances to show it.

For some reason there are very few top black managers - the only one I can think of is Rijkard.
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Fixed that for you.

Becoming a manager at a top level is incredibly hard. It's a long step to clime if you didn't start out as a player. The ex-players just get a job at some of their former clubs. I can only name two managers in the game that did little in football before coaching. Mourinho is a big abnormality and Villas-Boas, although very smart and good, got a very lucky break to begin with because he lived in the same apartment block as Bobby Robson who gave him his first job.
 
Do managers even have interviews in the PL? Isn't it just a matter of asking someone if he's up for the job and then sorting out the contract? I've never heard of someone being hired in the PL who beat another candidate because he was more impressive in person.
 
My concern for this rule - if I understand it currently - is that black managers will be put through a series of interviews every season for jobs at club's who have no real intention of giving them the job, not because of racial reasons, but because they have someone lined-up already.

I accept the argument that getting black managers through the door in the first place is a start and it gives them a chance to impress, but is it realistic to expect a club that has sacked its existing manager for whatever reason to have to go through a charade before hiring whomever they had lined-up in the first place?

Watching BBC panel shows these days with their one female guest on every show when everyone knows there is a new quota system the BBC have implemented requiring at least one female on each panel still seems very false to me, regardless of how that panellist performances (usually every bit as well as the male panellists, or indeed as well as they did when they were guests on the show before the quota was added by the BBC - it's usually the same collection of guests on these shows anyway).

Personally I can't imagine being pleased about getting interviewed by an organisation because they have to due to some quota rather than my merits and genuine interest in what I have to offer, but I accept I'm not in the position of these managers.

This seems superficial, and runs the risk of not resolving the underlying issues.
 
Antisocial said:
My concern for this rule - if I understand it currently - is that black managers will be put through a series of interviews every season for jobs at club's who have no real intention of giving them the job, not because of racial reasons, but because they have someone lined-up already.

I accept the argument that getting black managers through the door in the first place is a start and it gives them a chance to impress, but is it realistic to expect a club that has sacked its existing manager for whatever reason to have to go through a charade before hiring whomever they had lined-up in the first place?

Watching BBC panel shows these days with their one female guest on every show when everyone knows there is a new quota system the BBC have implemented requiring at least one female on each panel still seems very false to me, regardless of how that panellist performances (usually every bit as well as the male panellists, or indeed as well as they did when they were guests on the show before the quota was added by the BBC - it's usually the same collection of guests on these shows anyway).

Personally I can't imagine being pleased about getting interviewed by an organisation because they have to due to some quota rather than my merits and genuine interest in what I have to offer, but I accept I'm not in the position of these managers.

This seems superficial, and runs the risk of not resolving the underlying issues.
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That's definitely a possibility, although at least in terms of the policy implemented in the States, its been quite successful in terms of hiring qualified minority candidates.
 
Undecided. We talked about this at uni, and it was said that implementing the 'Rooney Rule' can be actually seen as 'reverse racism' in two ways; making sure a black coach is interviewed although he may not be good enough, or in a sense, taking way the accomplishments of black coaches. It appears as though if this rule was implemented, they are being interviewed due to compliance of the FA, and not due to the sacrifices they've made along the way that put them into positions to be hired in the first place.

As a black person myself, I'd find it a bit patronizing. That said, in the NFL it has been a massive success.

EDIT:

Just want to add, ex Birmingham City player Michael Johnson come into my uni to talk about racism in football, and he said that he sent off X amount of CV's for managerial jobs and didn't get one response.
 
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I actually think the rule is quite racist against everyone who isn't black. I couldn't care less about ethnicity of the manager.

Plus, name 5 managers who are black and have been a huge success at a club in recent times. There isn't many for some reason.
 
Raoul said:
That's definitely a possibility, although at least in terms of the policy implemented in the States, its been quite successful in terms of hiring qualified minority candidates.
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I should perhaps clarify that I'm not against the idea, more that I have reservations and am uncertain it is the right move. But if something like this has proven successful elsewhere then that's all the better.
 
Bwuk said:
I actually think the rule is quite racist against everyone who isn't black. I couldn't care less about ethnicity of the manager.

Plus, name 5 managers who are black and have been a huge success at a club in recent times. There isn't many for some reason.
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What an odd thing to say given that there are only two black managers at the moment.
 
Bwuk said:
I actually think the rule is quite racist against everyone who isn't black. I couldn't care less about ethnicity of the manager.

Plus, name 5 managers who are black and have been a huge success at a club in recent times. There isn't many for some reason.
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The reason is that they're rarely given chances. How is someone supposed to be a huge success when they're not even considered?
 
Raoul said:
What an odd thing to say given that there are only two black managers at the moment.
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Exactly my point. There aren't exactly an abundance of black managers, so if there CV isn't up to scratch, why should they be getting interviews for top clubs?
 
mariachi-19 said:
Lets just a remember a few things about english football. A. for some stupid reason, top flight teams (ie top 4 leagues) have stupid ideas behind hiring ex players as managers because they somehow understand the game better and that these ex players bar a few exceptions (those exceptions usually world class players in their day) are british. Additionally, looking at the black players in England, I'd say a majority are not of british origin, thus when their playing careers are over, they leave. What we're left with is a small minority of black english talent of which a large portion won't be interested in managing. We then further dilute the availability of a managerial position to 100 jobs. Taking into account the incredible amount of variables (foreign managers etc) I don't particularly think that there is a significant issue regarding racism.
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There are white players from other countries too.
 
Antisocial said:
My concern for this rule - if I understand it currently - is that black managers will be put through a series of interviews every season for jobs at club's who have no real intention of giving them the job, not because of racial reasons, but because they have someone lined-up already.

I accept the argument that getting black managers through the door in the first place is a start and it gives them a chance to impress, but is it realistic to expect a club that has sacked its existing manager for whatever reason to have to go through a charade before hiring whomever they had lined-up in the first place?

Watching BBC panel shows these days with their one female guest on every show when everyone knows there is a new quota system the BBC have implemented requiring at least one female on each panel still seems very false to me, regardless of how that panellist performances (usually every bit as well as the male panellists, or indeed as well as they did when they were guests on the show before the quota was added by the BBC - it's usually the same collection of guests on these shows anyway).

Personally I can't imagine being pleased about getting interviewed by an organisation because they have to due to some quota rather than my merits and genuine interest in what I have to offer, but I accept I'm not in the position of these managers.

This seems superficial, and runs the risk of not resolving the underlying issues.
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What if the underlying issue is that black people aren't considered for these jobs at all? It's not like managing positions are widely advertised.
 
Bwuk said:
Exactly my point. There aren't exactly an abundance of black managers, so if there CV isn't up to scratch, why should they be getting interviews for top clubs?
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You could invert the question and ask whether there aren't an abundance of black managers with good CVs because they haven't been afforded a level playing field in terms of interviews, which is what the Rooney Rule (or a similar English variant) seeks to remedy.
 
Bwuk said:
Exactly my point. There aren't exactly an abundance of black managers, so if there CV isn't up to scratch, why should they be getting interviews for top clubs?
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While someone without a proven track record elsewhere shouldn't be given he keys to a United or Arsenal, there's no reason why the Rooney Rule won't lead to more black managers getting hired in the lower ends of professional football and be given opportunities to climb the ladder. The rule isn't meant to lead to black managers getting a proportional amount of jobs overnight, but it is an effective way of ensuring that prospective black managers are given an equal opportunity in the field.
 
Silva said:
While someone without a proven track record elsewhere shouldn't be given he keys to a United or Arsenal, there's no reason why the Rooney Rule won't lead to more black managers getting hired in the lower ends of professional football and be given opportunities to climb the ladder. The rule isn't meant to lead to black managers getting a proportional amount of jobs overnight, but it is an effective way of ensuring that prospective black managers are given an equal opportunity in the field.
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Look at Cardiff. They gave Gabbidon half the role as first team manager on a temporary basis, and he's done well so you imagine if he wants he could get a job elsewhere down the divisions till he builds up experience. Teams do give black managers chances, if teams were racist they wouldn't have so many black players in them. It's just for whatever reason a lot of them either haven't wanted to pursue management as a career, or haven't had the talent in management for it.

I'd imagine with the high level of black players playing in the premier league, in 10/15 years time there will be a lot more managers who are black throughout the leagues.
 
Bwuk said:
Look at Cardiff. They gave Gabbidon half the role as first team manager on a temporary basis, and he's done well so you imagine if he wants he could get a job elsewhere down the divisions till he builds up experience. Teams do give black managers chances, if teams were racist they wouldn't have so many black players in them. It's just for whatever reason a lot of them either haven't wanted to pursue management as a career, or haven't had the talent in management for it.

I'd imagine with the high level of black players playing in the premier league, in 10/15 years time there will be a lot more managers who are black throughout the leagues.
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No ones saying teams are racist. But the fact that you're picking half a role for temporary manager as your example kind of proves the point here, black managers don't get enough opportunities.
 
Silva said:
What if the underlying issue is that black people aren't considered for these jobs at all? It's not like managing positions are widely advertised.
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Pretty sure all clubs look at managers track record or links to the club. Never the colour of their skin! I care not what colour any future United manager is, only how successful he is. As most clubs have none white players why would they introduce a racist policy on their managerial appontments? Simply does not make sense.
Hopefully players akin to Rio can step up & be successful, rather than be mediocre like Ince.
 
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Bwuk said:
Look at Cardiff. They gave Gabbidon half the role as first team manager on a temporary basis, and he's done well so you imagine if he wants he could get a job elsewhere down the divisions till he builds up experience. Teams do give black managers chances, if teams were racist they wouldn't have so many black players in them. It's just for whatever reason a lot of them either haven't wanted to pursue management as a career, or haven't had the talent in management for it.

I'd imagine with the high level of black players playing in the premier league, in 10/15 years time there will be a lot more managers who are black throughout the leagues.
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It is much easier to gauge how good a Footballer is than how good a manager is.
 
Bwuk said:
Look at Cardiff. They gave Gabbidon half the role as first team manager on a temporary basis, and he's done well so you imagine if he wants he could get a job elsewhere down the divisions till he builds up experience. Teams do give black managers chances, if teams were racist they wouldn't have so many black players in them. It's just for whatever reason a lot of them either haven't wanted to pursue management as a career, or haven't had the talent in management for it.

I'd imagine with the high level of black players playing in the premier league, in 10/15 years time there will be a lot more managers who are black throughout the leagues.
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Football's a business. If the hierarchy of the club feels a black player or black players will help their team to be successful than why should they care? The problem is, the same hierarchy may not have the same trust in a black person when it comes to managing their club.
 
Red_toad said:
Pretty sure all clubs look at managers track record or links to the club. Never the colour of their skin! I care not what colour any future United manager is, only how successful he is. As most clubs have none white players why would they introduce a racist policy on their managerial policy? Simply does not make sense.
Hopefully players akin to Rio can step up & be successful, rather than be mediocre like Ince.
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Considering more than white men for a job isn't a racist policy.
 
Silva said:
What if the underlying issue is that black people aren't considered for these jobs at all? It's not like managing positions are widely advertised.
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If that is the case, then forcing clubs to interview people for reasons unrelated to anything other than the colour of their skin seems the wrong approach to me; and more likely to cause resentment rather than change such very outdated opinions. Particularly if they already know the way they are going to go in terms of replacing their manager, but have to jump through an extra hoop on the way.

Is the problem maybe more to do with there not being many black candidates? In which case the solution would seem to me to have to start earlier than the interview stage for managerial jobs. Now when the issue of black managers comes-up, then Paul fecking Ince is usually mentioned. Now for me, I wouldn't want to interview Paul Ince for a managerial job, and the reasons why have nothing to do with his race. But more candidates who aren't fecking idiots - I'd be open to talking to them; am I naive in my view of the recruitment attitude of clubs in 2014?

Or is it a catch 22 situation: there aren't many black managers, therefore potential black managers don't think it is worth going down that avenue?

I realise I'm asking more questions than giving answers :lol:
 
Silva said:
No ones saying teams are racist. But the fact that you're picking half a role for temporary manager as your example kind of proves the point here, black managers don't get enough opportunities.
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it will come in time, the more none white players there are will increase the amount of those who feed into the coaching system. I wish the focus wasn't simply on blacks, as that in itself is racist. And once again I do not believe any British club would have a racist policy with regard to Managerial recruitment. They simply have to prove themselves as the best person for the job.
 
It should ideally be equal to every race, without discrimination isnt it? This is a discrimination towards every non-black. That a black manager will get an interview at the very least. Shouldn't asian be represented as well? There are loads of asians in the uk?

I won't be happy to get called for an interview just so that the employer can fill their quota. I'd rather not being called.

Going to a "formality" job interview is such a humiliating and annoying process ive encountered. They nod and smile but you know the result at the first meeting
 
Antisocial said:
If that is the case, then forcing clubs to interview people for reasons unrelated to anything other than the colour of their skin seems the wrong approach to me; and more likely to cause resentment rather than change such very outdated opinions. Particularly if they already know the way they are going to go in terms of replacing their manager, but have to jump through an extra hoop on the way.

Is the problem maybe more to do with there not being many black candidates? In which case the solution would seem to me to have to start earlier than the interview stage for managerial jobs. Now when the issue of black managers comes-up, then Paul fecking Ince is usually mentioned. Now for me, I wouldn't want to interview Paul Ince for a managerial job, and the reasons why have nothing to do with his race. But more candidates who aren't fecking idiots - I'd be open to talking to them; am I naive in my view of the recruitment attitude of clubs in 2014?

Or is it a catch 22 situation: there aren't many black managers, therefore potential black managers don't think it is worth going down that avenue?

I realise I'm asking more questions than giving answers :lol:
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He's brought up as he's high profile, talked the talk & kinda flopped.

if more ethnic minority's wish to be managers, then they need to get coaching badges & promote themselves the correct way, not expect someone to bring in rules
 
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