The part in bold plays into my hands as I am absolutely secure through the centre.
In midfield too, the energy of Davids will ensure that nothing is easy, along with Veron having to cope with the likes of Rivaldo.
Sheep draft - sajeev vs MDFC Manager
- Thread starter Balu
- Start date
In midfield too, the energy of Davids will ensure that nothing is easy, along with Veron having to cope with the likes of Rivaldo.
Marquez was someone who was an integral part of the Barca team which won the 2006 CL as well as being the main player for Mexico, I can't really say he is over-rated. For the role he is playing in my team he is quite good.
Any particular concerns regarding his ability with respect to the role he performing?
It's close but I'm going for MDFC. Both setups aren't ideal but I think van Basten will definitely score but not too sure about Henry. Also I really don't like Henry as a lone striker. If it had been me I would have played Rivaldo essentially as a strike partner for Henry and Kaka at 10 leaving the full backs to mainly use the wide areas.
I just never liked him Sajeev! That's it. Never rated him as a DM or CB. It's personal bias and I can't help it.
Your team is real good though.I don't believe your center is as secure as you think it is. Even if we set aside the quality for a moment, I'm winning the quantitative battle in the center.
I went for Sajeev, not on the basis that the second formation looks weird but it certainly does. Things must've changed in this draft if you can get away with such an odd looking formation!
What exactly is odd about it?
What exactly is odd about it?
Nothing really, I understand it. But from previous experience I always thought having a formation which is so far from symmetrical usually counts against you!
Can't blame you
It's one of life's mysteries how that can land you a CL and make you defensively stronger (which it did, although I'd argue that was the inclusion of Ambrosini and pushing Seedorf up replacing Rui Costa.Spill the beans!
how are you winning the quantitative battle in the centre?
the thing is the game is going to be fluid and the personnel i have in defence and midfield cater to soundness in defence as well deftness in attack
Oh didn't know about that as it's my first outing. But I'd be devastated if people are voting against me for not having a symmetric formation! I could put the front two symmetrically but that's certainly not how they'd actually be expected to play
It used to infuriate me when people got so fixated with the formation graphic without actually considering how it would work in reality but it definitely used to happen.
Great team and write up, particularly for a first attempt, well done!
Maybe I was unclear, but I didn't mean Alaba and Amoros at the same time. Just that both will, at different times, be starting attacks as they have no direct opponent and can carry the ball forward. When Amoros does, Ardiles or Irwin will have to come meet him and more damagingly, when Vieira or Reuter step over/up to deal with Alaba, there should be space for Henry on the left and opportunities for Seedorf/Davids/Kaka/Rivaldo to run at the defensively questionable Veron/Ardiles midfield combo that will result from Vieira being forced wide (which you specified will happen).
I've got Veron, Vieira, Ardiles and Zico in the diamond. That's four, versus your 3 man midfield. Unless you're adding Kaka and Rivaldo to the list... In which case, I might as well add Bergkamp too.
I've never seen anything to suggest that a symmetrical is better or wins more than an non-symmetrical side.
If anything, I prefer a non-symmetrical side in attack, since when you play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 you can have the less vertical wide attacker help out in the middle at times and give you an extra body in the midfield battle.
If anything, I prefer a non-symmetrical side in attack, since when you play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 you can have the less vertical wide attacker help out in the middle at times and give you an extra body in the midfield battle.
I just never liked him Sajeev! That's it. Never rated him as a DM or CB. It's personal bias and I can't help it.
He was imperious, even in the flimsy as feck high-line defences that Barca is famed for.Nah, it's the IN thing these days mate, feck knows why. You wouldn't believe the odd shaped formations we've seen recently. I'm not saying it's wrong, the fixation with symmetry wasn't healthy, but sometimes it seems people are putting forth wonky formations just for the sake of it.
This is a regular one, just like symmetry used to be. Why are people so obsessed with the "safety" of the fullbacks taking turns. You have the ball, you don't need to leave half a team camped around your area, football isn't actually played that way. Conversely, it's unlikely you will ever have both fullbacks around the opposite corner flag at the same time, the usual is for one to advance and the other to stay around the halfway line, and as play evolves one way or the other that relative disposition changes naturally.
Surely we all realise formations lop-side/swing to one side or the other in attacking phases? No?
He looks like a cnut though! Pony tail and all. I loved that Barca side but hated him.
Ah I agree! And cheers for the input mate
I said Vieira will cover for Reuter's forward runs but that's an offensive scenario. The scenario you're describing is when his fullbacks come out with the ball. In that scenario I wouldn't expect my fullbacks to meet them high up the pitch at all. Irwin in that scenario is already defensively minded. Reuter on the other hand has excellent pace and work rate to get back and defend further back, rather than up the field.
Just to simplify things, what you say would hold true if I was playing a gung ho high defensive line. That's not the case here. I'm not playing too deep but there's certainly not going to be gaps to counterattack in the dramatic way you describe.
If you count Zico you sure as hell have to count Kaká and Rivaldo. Throw in Bergkamp, by all means. And the point was? The most significant delta there from a defensive robustness standpoint is Márquez > Verón. It tips the balance both in the midfield and defence, that's what that role is all about and when well executed it is hugely effective. Those that do rarely get picked in drafts though, for some reason, unless they are big names like Sammer. I picked Carsten Ramelow once to play it, got shot down in flames of course, but boy was he effective...
Ah, OK, non-football reasons then. I accept that, I too have an irrational dislike for certain players. But can't you see past that and realise you would be sucking his c*ck in no time if he were performing that role for our spastic 2014/15 defence?
@antohan are you making this a 2 against 1 as AM. I'd let it play 1 vs 1 for a while. 2 vs 1 really isn't fair.
No. I would not. He is a cnut. The same way Ashley Cole, or as long as he isn't on my team, Emerson is!
Irrational dislike trumps all.
No, I'm not, just popped in and got riled about the Márquez underrating again. If you actually look through the last few posts they are all about him, or general chit chat about draft conventional wisdoms (symmetry/fullbacks).
Oh, yes, Ashley Cole... Which Emerson? Brazil or Boro AWOL one?
Even then, you will be shocked to find out I actually agreed with sajeev that Frank de Boer would work well in his team. Frank friggin' de Boer, swanned around as if he were the second coming of Ruud Krol and Ronald Koeman rolled into one, and when the basketball scorelines piled up looked around as if saying everyone else was shit. No Frank, YOU were shit!
/rant
Tough to call this.. I just think MDFC by virtue of having Zico and Van Basten edged it for me. I am not a fan of Veron in that set up but the rest of the side looks solid as feck.. Sajeevs side is really strong too. Both are not set up brilliantly in a tactical sense but are cancelling each other out in my opinion.
I literally have no idea what the point of this post is. Who doesn't know that fullbacks aren't tied to one another and that when Zabelata bursts forward Clichy doesn't necessarily match him?
I was explaining to MDFC that I think Sajeev's fullbacks will be able to start attacks easily and that Vieira getting pulled from the middle leaves him with inferior defensive talent in that crucial part of the pitch.
his side doesn't have any width and his attack down the centre will be well thwarted. on the other hand, my full-backs as well as Rivaldo ensure that his defence will be threatened more often creating more chances for the likes of Henry, Rivaldo and Kaka
I don't even think that's an issue here whatsoever. For starters Keane isn't on the park. Second, Veron formed a brilliant partnership with Simeone (who isn't that dissimilar stylistically) for Lazio and Argentina.
Yeah, I know the crux of your post was about something else, that's why I bolded that bit specifically. It was largely MDFCs point I was effectively addressing, not yours. It seems to be a draft regular that: "if both fullbacks go forward I destroy them on the break". You would be surprised fullbacks keep going forward week in week out when it is so easy, wouldn't you?
Indeed, although that was a more advanced Verón and the one I preferred myself. OAP Verón was bloody good, mind, but faced a different level of competition and pressure tbh.
Very close to call. Veron adds creativity from the middle, which is countered by a dedicated DM. Sajeev has flexibility in middle whereas MDFC has a better attacking trio.
I think sajeev may have an edge as they'll have a easier time moving the ball forward through wide areas as opposed to a more congested route for MDFC.
I think sajeev may have an edge as they'll have a easier time moving the ball forward through wide areas as opposed to a more congested route for MDFC.
What exactly is odd about it?
I can see what he means actually - Van Basten could be a bit more to the left and it would probably look nicer.
Anyway I went for you, though I like both teams. I didn't even realise you had somehow got Zico and Van Basten.
The midfield looks great as well, Vieira's physicality suits a side role in the diamond and IIRC Ardiles played that system when he was at Spurs.
Agree with that - small difference but that is how I would have set that front three up as well.
Hard to separate. In midfield Davids and Vieira would have a braw scrap, Ardiles and Seedorf similarly so on the other side. Zico likely to cause Marquez some problems. Rivaldo and Kaka likely to cause Veron some issues. Veron though does look he would potentially have some space to dictate matters and he's a generally under-rated player at his peak. Important that Irwin gets into the game as otherwise it could be a little lop-sided with the lack of left-footers. And in the same vein as Veron I'm buying Marquez in that role, pinging the ball around to the overlapping full-backs and into the feet of the supporting attackers. Can see Reuter having the right mix of qualities to do well against Henry. Kaka looks to have less resistance in the area between Ardiles, Veron and Costacurta, especially if Amoros supports as he very much can. It's possible that Kaka could nab a goal, probably feeding off a Rivaldo through ball. Equally though the Zico/Van Basten axis should engineer a goal with Bergkamp's erratic brilliance capable of conjuring something out of nothing. Still sitting on the fence here.
MDFC could have done with a more mobile SS than Bergkamp to complement Zico and MVB but other than that, I don't see too much of an issue with the supposed lack of width.
Reuter played as a WB in a back 5 and was nicknamed turbo for his sheer speed and wingplay. Irwin is perfectly capable of playing a supporting FB role with Ardiles providing width with his snake like dribbling and versatility. Both were tactically brilliant and extremely intelligent players.
Don't quite like Veron as a DM against 2 pacey and direct AMs in Kaka & Rivaldo. Ardiles would have been much better as a DM with Veron as a CM but that move would leave MDFC's midfield too centrally oriented.
Marquez is much more suitable than Veron for this role in sajeev's team but he's up against Bergkamp & Zico of all people. I rate Marquez but not that highly. Someone like Popescu or Stielike would have been perfect here. As such I don't see too much of an advantage for sajeev in this regard despite having the more suitable player, unfortunately.
Viera-Ardiles vs Seedorf-Davids promises to be a tasty affair but it's fairly even and could go either way like what Gio stated.
Have to give give MDFC the edge in a fairly even match up. It's hard to look past Van Basten-Zico and I rate MDFC's defense slightly better.
Reuter played as a WB in a back 5 and was nicknamed turbo for his sheer speed and wingplay. Irwin is perfectly capable of playing a supporting FB role with Ardiles providing width with his snake like dribbling and versatility. Both were tactically brilliant and extremely intelligent players.
Don't quite like Veron as a DM against 2 pacey and direct AMs in Kaka & Rivaldo. Ardiles would have been much better as a DM with Veron as a CM but that move would leave MDFC's midfield too centrally oriented.
Marquez is much more suitable than Veron for this role in sajeev's team but he's up against Bergkamp & Zico of all people. I rate Marquez but not that highly. Someone like Popescu or Stielike would have been perfect here. As such I don't see too much of an advantage for sajeev in this regard despite having the more suitable player, unfortunately.
Viera-Ardiles vs Seedorf-Davids promises to be a tasty affair but it's fairly even and could go either way like what Gio stated.
Have to give give MDFC the edge in a fairly even match up. It's hard to look past Van Basten-Zico and I rate MDFC's defense slightly better.
so while he has less space in the middle, and less leverage to use his width, you think Zico-Van Basten is enough to tilt it, while Kaka and Rivaldo with Henry aren't. Also my central defenders as such are quite sound defensively and can bring out the ball along with having Marquez in the middle.
As good as Viera was, I would bet on Davids winning the battle every time, and that will give me the edge.
Davids is a player who isn't quite under-rated especially on this board. Viera for me hasn't really done it at the highest level
I do think he has less space in the middle but not as much as it has been played out here. He has the players to provide sufficient width to execute his system tactically.
Not downplaying Henry and Rivaldo by any means but I do think Van Basten and Zico just edge it for him as I believe he has a stronger defense than yours. Tbh your forward line has more fluidity, pace and tactical balance which should more or less even the playing field.
It's just really close and I'm more than open to changing my vote pending further discussions.