That said, I have mainly voted for a story; which doesn't mean I don't appreciate the other team.
Sheep Draft R1: harms vs. Arbitrium - Voting closed
- Thread starter green_smiley
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What are you even on about? What do you think was peak position? There was no question about the gap in quality between him and CR7, but his best position was at right back, I don’t think that it’s even debatable.
That’s another matter, but I’d probably go in detail on Schnellinger in the next game, hopefully I’ll have time. Especially on the claims that he’s a better LCB than CB while I don’t even think that he played as LCB (he excelled as a sweeper in back 5 and as a CB in 4 as well as a left back). He won’t do as a left back in this team though, different skill set than the one I need.
Without sounding too harsh nobody really cares or does the effort and research in pre-war players. Usually they are always taken with a pinch of salt and disregarded to a great extend(myself included). Most of the information is romanticized and biased, written by fellow team mates and mate journos.
I always had him as a CB who can drift right, CB, RCB and lastly RB is how I had him in my mind.
Fair point.
Nope. Right back first, everything else (including central midfield) second. One of the biggest games in his career, for example — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_UEFA_Cup_Final
edit: not that this website is unquestionable, but here he just about makes the top-100 list of "defensive laterals" — https://xtraimmortal.blogspot.com/2014/02/The9x100.html
Agree 100%.
Thanks. Didn't realize this. Let me read up more on him.
By the way, a genuine question, not a dig or a continuation of our argument — are there games that you can recommend where Boniek's elite playmaking is evident? @Moby
Because I really like him as a player and want to know about him. The latter part of career excluded though.
Because I really like him as a player and want to know about him. The latter part of career excluded though.
If no one cares or does the effort, how do you know the information is Romanticized and biased?
The eventual emergence of Cabrini, that pushed Gentile from left back to right back, was the beginning of the end for Cuccureddu as a starter. But his peak years were a little before that.
Give me some time, will get back on this.
There was one draft before(tactical I think) which gave us historical teams and I landed on Italy 1934 or something.
Some of the reports on Meazza were not only superhuman but also supernatural
I don't rate Monti for example that high like others. At one point he was a GOAT DM who could held his own against great #10's which is IMO way off. He was again presented as some kind of a phenomenal figure - both a defensive powerhouse and fantastic playmaker from deep who can cover the whole pitch- but let's get real most of the video evidence from that time is fast forwarded (due to the pace being snail slow) and many footballers were wearing hats and golf knickers.
Do think it's harsh on that generation to get compared with the contemporary ones. Which is why I loved Physio's rule of having players with at least one full match on the internet eligible in all time drafts. That really should be a standard going forward.There was one draft before(tactical I think) which gave us historical teams and I landed on Italy 1934 or something.
Some of the reports on Meazza were not only superhuman but also supernatural
I don't rate Monti for example that high like others. At one point he was a GOAT DM who could held his own against great #10's which is IMO way off. He was again presented as some kind of a phenomenal figure - both a defensive powerhouse and fantastic playmaker from deep who can cover the whole pitch- but let's get real most of the video evidence from that time is fast forwarded (due to the pace being snail slow) and many footballers were wearing hats and голф knickers.
yeah agreed.
I mean it’s fair enough I suppose, just a shame to discount the players when they should be judged on a pound for pound basis. It’s equivalent to Harry Greb being left out of pound for pound boxing lists.
It's a bit easier with attackers as their individual traits are usually described in more detail, especially since often you can find the description (or even glimpses of video) of their goals. With defenders or midfielders it's the same thing though, won everything in the air, ran like a deer, passed with precision and tackled ferociously.There was one draft before(tactical I think) which gave us historical teams and I landed on Italy 1934 or something.
Some of the reports on Meazza were not only superhuman but also supernatural
I don't rate Monti for example that high like others.
Still even with attackers from the 30’s and early 40’s their goal scoring exploits are easy to be scrutinized and aren’t well documented or validated.
There are glimpses of videos here and there but with limited video evidence you can present Lukaku as an actual footballer for example.
Could always just show that he’s Belgium’s all time top goalscorer too.
On the contrary, I find old school footballers to be more well rounded as against modern specialists. The half and full backs of WM are certainly more versatile and tactically flexible. The ball was heavier, grounds were raw and sub optimal conditions tend to make for tougher footballers and not the divas we see plenty nowadays. Stanley Matthews would fit in seamlessly in a modern side while Cristiano would not even make the team sheet of an older side. As to Monti, I'd say he'd fit current United side in a Matic'esque role perfectly. There were also very few 'luxury' playmakers and I tend to believer player workrate was also more than many of current footballers.
Relatively. I still try to stay clear from them.
Ageism is real.
One way to do it. Another could be to include a criterion which forces everybody to have an old player, so the standard argument that they wouldn't hack it in the modern game can't be rolled out. I think it depends on the draft - the World Cup drafts lent themselves to incorporating old players because their achievements were fairly easily evidenced and compared, and the same could be argued for the British and Irish draft given the solid written evidence bank for most of the greats from the English and Scottish leagues. But in others, much less so and they end up being a hindrance to the wider debate.
I watched a couple of games of him playing centrally for Germany and Milan and I thought he was fantastic. The partnership with Rosato looked especially impressive.
Many of the German defenders of that time seem to have been quite versatile and adept at playing both centrally (stopper or sweeper) and as (mostly defensive) fullbacks: Schnellinger, Vogts, Patzke, Höttges, Fichtel, for example. Some like Patzke and Ludwig Müller were also played at DM occasionally. The positioning of these defensive players could be quite flexible throughout a single game, partly because of man-marking assignments I guess.
Schnellinger was different from the others mentioned though, as he was a genuine ball playing defender, and likely a different kind of fullback (haven't seen any games of him in that role).
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Edit: Rewatched a bit of the Milan game, Rosato is actually playing as a LB marking the RW, with Schnellinger firmly in the center. So no 'partnership' in this case.
Edit II: Ah feck it, Footballia got the shirt numbers wrong, it's Trapattoni on the left, back 5.
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harms should replace Matthaus with Fellaini and this would be a great team.