isn't Donadoni left footed? I think in this particular match, you could really hurt EAP by playing both wingers
Sheep draft QF - Edgar Allan Pillow vs kps88
- Thread starter Balu
- Start date
Hurting EAP seems to have become a fashion theses days! 
And wtf did I really lose a vote due to the goalies?! 
Ffs Anto. Thanks for drawing him up a new detailed formation before I got a word in!
No AM here, or should I be barred from voting again?
I suppose I'm just making up for EAP being at the other end of my putting together formations for NoPace Joke aside, it was hurting my eyes. I looked at both teamsheets and it was all I could think of by way of feedback.
Not only is Schmeichel winning him votes, he's also teleporting into another attacker when EAP has the ball.
Interesting. But with the likes of Eto and Garrincha lurking around, is it not risky to be having your primary playmakers so deep in your own half?
Don't think Garrincha is a very good fit in kps team at all here, he was incredibly wasteful in possession at his best but it was worth giving him the ball over and over because he'd inevitably win you the game. He's not the type to make brilliant runs off the ball either, he was best of given the ball at his feet for him to challenge the defense.
That said Edgar isn't set up to take advantage of Kps tactics by any means and the individual quality for Kps is just at a different level so I will have to go for him.
That said Edgar isn't set up to take advantage of Kps tactics by any means and the individual quality for Kps is just at a different level so I will have to go for him.
He was right footed but can definitely play wide left. He didn't get any love last game though and I think Donadoni vs Gerets with Desaily on the cover would have been a hard match up to be fair.
I suppose I'm just making up for EAP being at the other end of my putting together formations for NoPace
Did you really? The amount of influence you have on these things...you're the Rupert Murdoch of drafts.Don't think so. He can play on both flanks, though. For me, well, I prefer him on the right - but yes, I would play him anyway. I love Del Piero as much as anyone, but there is something there, can't quite put my finger on it, which doesn't sit right with me, balance wise.
Too much...something, with all of Laudrup, Del Piero and Garrincha in the mix. The latter being much more than a line hugger and anything but disciplined (you can't order him to keep his arse near the chalk, that would be pointless).
Throw Donadoni into the mix - exceptionally clever player, disciplined too. I'd do it. There's creativity in buckets there anyway, with both Laudrup and Garrincha - you don't really need Del Piero's brand of genius on top of that (I guess that's where my problem with the balance lies, ultimately).
Anyway, it doesn't matter in this match - but perhaps something to consider if (should be when) he progresses.
My thoughts exactly. Garrincha really is like Nani when he's off form and wants to score and do everything himself. Difference of course is that Garrincha was one of the best in history at doing that while Nani's crap when he tries it.
For me Kps has a great team, and then Garrincha is randomly placed on the pitch. I don't see how he tactically makes the team better and the team is certainly not set out to get the best out of him. Laudrup, Redondo and Tigana are already great on the ball and they'd be beautiful to see together in a very composed and delicate style.
Garrincha is the ultimate chaos, the emperor of wasteful possession.
This is a game people consider as one of the best in his career and he's playing the game as if he had no teammates pretty much for good and bad.
Cabirini is not going to do much on the left flank since he is up against Garrincha. Muller in theory could help out defensively on the left.
It's odd. That game I gave EAP a bit of a grilling and helped NoPace even to the point of posting what I thought his tactics should be rejigged as. Got told off for it, yet everyone expected me to vote. I didn't.
Then I don't help sajeev prepare for his game, largely focus on banging on about Márquez, don't interfere anywhere near as much as in the other game and I'm told I can't vote.
Bizarre.
Agree with Chester here, ADP and Laudrup doesn't do it for me. Also, having Carboni largely defending a bit of Donadoni on that wing wouldn't go amiss.
I had a similar problem with him the one time I picked him. As usual, I had a team packed with very disciplined players, adept at their role, playing as a team... and then just had Garrincha up there on the right. My write-ups were very much descriptive of what I would be doing + "and when Garrincha gets the ball I have no idea because he will do whatever the feck he wants".
EAP should change his system. Whenever two teams have similar formations, it always comes down to who has the better players. kps has the edge there.
Müller is now in midfield. I agree, if EAP wants a chance here he needs to keep Cabrini on a leash. It's a shame, but he should just help transition and work his way back pronto. You really don't want to leave Garrincha facing Montero and bear in mind I love the guy to bits.
I think it's a goner.. Bar the striker, kps matches him or is easily better at every other place.
I also don't know why EAP has Dessaily falling back into the defense. You would want him to strangle someone like Laudrup in the midfield.
I'm loving kps' team, can't find a single weakness in it. Attack not strong enough but midfield-defense is just a brick wall
I suppose he wanted Desailly to bring further security to his defence with his wingbacks bombing forward. Problem is, Cabrini should bomb nowhere anyway because Desailly covering won't stop Montero struggling with Garrincha. At that point you do indeed have to question why he isn't in midfield fulltime, not just due to Laudrup but Redondo and Tigana tearing a new one into MüllerLite and Ancelotti.
-Really think Thomas Muller's midfield play is being overrated here. He could make things uncomfortable for Redondo physically if detailed to do so and get open on the counter, but in terms of the midfield battle, he's not up to it.
-In general, EAP's best chance to win would be to stifle and play on the counter, and he hasn't focused on that tactically. Desailly on Laudrup, Muller on Redondo and Ancelotti to deal with Tigana and clog the middle, I could maybe believe in.
-I will add that Del Piero + Carboni vs Gerets + Jairzinho looks a nice matchup on that wing for EAP.
-3 different targets for Laudrup with Etoo's pace and ability to play on the shoulder of the last defender, Garrincha as a winger and Del Piero coming infield, linking up and looking to get between the fullback and CB on his side. That's trouble.
I voted for KPS' incredibly solid team, but I might have been convinced otherwise.
-In general, EAP's best chance to win would be to stifle and play on the counter, and he hasn't focused on that tactically. Desailly on Laudrup, Muller on Redondo and Ancelotti to deal with Tigana and clog the middle, I could maybe believe in.
-I will add that Del Piero + Carboni vs Gerets + Jairzinho looks a nice matchup on that wing for EAP.
-3 different targets for Laudrup with Etoo's pace and ability to play on the shoulder of the last defender, Garrincha as a winger and Del Piero coming infield, linking up and looking to get between the fullback and CB on his side. That's trouble.
I voted for KPS' incredibly solid team, but I might have been convinced otherwise.
I had a similar problem with him the one time I picked him. As usual, I had a team packed with very disciplined players, adept at their role, playing as a team... and then just had Garrincha up there on the right. My write-ups were very much descriptive of what I would be doing + "and when Garrincha gets the ball I have no idea because he will do whatever the feck he wants".
Hard to actually make a team for him at all to be fair. Would make for an interesting draft theme though.Cabrini should bomb nowhere, Gerets should bomb nowhere. Edgar should play a cagey, cynical game here - period. Desailly battlin' it up as a DM, Ancelotti just tagging along as part of a generally cagey and cynical scheme. The latter he is actually brilliantly suited for - his greatest asset as a player on this level is his intelligence and awareness of his surroundings. Edgar's selling him as some sort of prototype for the DLP role filled by...Pirlo - which is so ridiculous not even the most gullible townspeople will buy that brand of tonic.
Müller light working as some sort of go-between - the hope being that Baggio can pull something out of his arse (which he can, conceivably) or Jairzinho creating enough havoc for the adult rated Müller to possibly stick a toe in and grab one.
That's what I would do.
Nobody would buy that either, though, it has to be said.
On that note - general question: If you actually set up to grab a goal and steal the match, not being bothered about selling your ability to win it fair and square at all, just...being perfectly honest about going for a daylight robbery sort of thing...and you had the players to do it: I mean, really had the players, even against top notch opposition...well, would anyone actually buy that?
It has happened again and again in the real world - not just purely lucky teams either, but cynically set up sides with quality players who have, indeed, grabbed wins over sides that fruitlessly played pretty football and got nowt for it over ninety minutes. But would you be able to win a draft match using those tactics? I personally would consider voting for a manager who stated his case well, demonstrating that he had a) the ability to park the bus sufficiently to withstand the assault and b) had the attackers, or at the least the ONE attacker, to grab the few chances he'd get.
I was one of the critics of Müller in the central role in EAP's attack and I still don't like it. Müller is always the player 2nd closest to goal, always running between the lines in the final third. Sure, his workrate can help EAP in midfield a bit, but both Jairzinho and Baggio are more comfortable on the ball, are better passers and more creative. Müller will play further forward than those two anyway, at least he should, so picking him out of those 3 to do the dropping deeper and connect midfield and attack role makes no sense at all to me. I'm not sure why @antohan likes it so much. Is it only because of his superior workrate? That's not a good enough reason for me.
I don't think those 4 are complementary anyway. Too many goalscorers, not enough creators between them.
I don't think those 4 are complementary anyway. Too many goalscorers, not enough creators between them.
Yes, I fully agree on the Müller (light) analysis - as such.
What you could argue, though, is that if you HAVE to field him in a particular role (with particular instructions, as it were), he is a brilliant player to have at your disposal - as he is actually capable of performing such a duty better than most would, being an exceptionally clever AND hard working sort of player. I think he will go down in history as a player who belongs in a category not many deserve to be in - the world class/top class/even GOAT class "ideal bastard to have in pretty much any team" sort of player.
It is for me. He doesn't need more movement or goals upfront, I'm not even suggesting he is linking things up, it's just EAP needs another body in midfield and it's either him or subbing him off for Djemba-Djemba.
Agree about them not complementing each other, there's a distinct lack of, err, general midfieldery, in EAPs squad. And you can't blame the sheep for it, you have to question what the point was in picking Müller other than having Müllerão and Müllerinho.
Yeah, but there isn't a gross quality discrepancy there - if anything you have him beat in pure attacking quality unless we're thinking Platini is Maradona (and he ain't, he simply ain't). Plus, you're fielding an extra body at the back as part of a stated plan to allow the side backs attacking freedom - that is not the sort of cynicism I'm talking about here.
Hit 'em on the counter is very different from...sabotage 'em and feck the Iphone waving, clueless brigade of twats who have showed up to be entertained by "the beautiful game". See the thing? I'm talking hardcore cynicism here - but obviously with players who would plausibly be good enough one-on-one (given that people are obsessed with "battles" around the pitch) to give you a fighting chance.
I'm saying it for years, every team is better with Müller in it
. I'd rather leave one of Baggio and Jairzinho out of the team than him here.Baggio and Muller could destroy any all-time defence out there, not to mention Cannavaro and Bergomi who both I don't really rate as 'best of the best'.
Imho, Desailly is the GOAT of 'pure' DM. Now Baresi-Montero with Desailly as the screener is as close as the Best you can have out there in 'all-time' defence unit.
Imho, Desailly is the GOAT of 'pure' DM. Now Baresi-Montero with Desailly as the screener is as close as the Best you can have out there in 'all-time' defence unit.
Anto's dicked me over a couple of times with that kind of approach, but perhaps my/Theon's game of Trapattoni v TRV's Guardiola is the best example. Close but no cigar. Thanks iphone-waving twats.
That barca side is overrated as hell over here. Really annoying.
Well, no, in a nutshell. That's as close as I can remember, although looking back on it, I got it spot on and completely outmanoeuvred him. Deserved victory methinks.
But you have to bear in mind this was a first outing for almost my entire team. I had a back three of Chivadze, De León and Darío Pereyra (none of them ever to feature in a draft again) + Gerets-Briegel which somehow was a hard sell and probably still is relative to what they deserve. Most had no idea on anyone really, bar Falcao for the Brazil 82 link. Just look at the voting! 6-5
No one used to vote arguing they had no idea who most of the players were, and three years later they are all household names
I'm saying it for years, every team is better with Müller in it
Yeah, but as @Chesterlestreet points out, he is regarded as the GOAT of the utility category, just ahead of Luis Enrique and John O'Shea.
Jaysus, yes. I remember that one. That was a bleedin' disgrace, I thought. There's no way in the world Pep's Barca would've stood a chance against what is essentially a fantasy team capable of doing everything and more Maureen's Inter did - with added quality in just about every bloody position.
He ain't ahead of O' Pie. Nobody is in my book.
It's interesting to debate where he actually is, though - because the category I'm talking about isn't actually "utility player". That just won't cut it - the best utility player in the world is still just a utility player - and he is more than that. He is the sort of slightly but not obviously under appreciated player who is, indeed, instrumental to the team's success. Not many of those about. Neeskens, perhaps? That sort of player? Widely recognized as brilliant but never actually showered with the sort of praise reserved for yer Cruyffs and what have you.
I think - if Müller doesn't stagnate - that is the sort of thing I have in mind for him.
I don't think he's still under appreciated. He's widely recognised as a top player and made the top 10 in pretty much all the "best players of 2014" lists. He also finished 5th at the Ballon d'Or (ahead of Neymar, James, Di Maria, Bale, Ibra). He's rated by almost everyone these days, even though barely anyone can say why.
Thomas Muller operates differently to Laudrup, but he still is a perfect set in my team. My team needs someone who is mobile, versatile and able to consistently move into spaces to G-Muller and Baggio. Thomas is perfect for that role. It is what he specializes in. He does need anyone to feed him the ball, but will move into positions and facilitate receiving balls himself.
Nothing of that sort is happening. The arrow on desailly is what the OP says "Ability of Desailly to drop into the defence would free up my full backs much more without compromising on defensive solidity." It just indicates an Option. Desailly will do his job on Laudrup as any other DM will.
Nothing of that sort is happening. The arrow on desailly is what the OP says "Ability of Desailly to drop into the defence would free up my full backs much more without compromising on defensive solidity." It just indicates an Option. Desailly will do his job on Laudrup as any other DM will.
Sorry, am not online much as previous match. A expected relaxed Friday at work did not work and now I'm running between floors chasing people with an impossible deadline to meet.
Will try to pitch in when I can.
Will try to pitch in when I can.
Midfield:
1) From a purely defensive view, Carlo ranks equal. I'd rate Carlo's work rate to be higher than Redondo's too.
2) Here you have Desailly on Laudrup. I presume most of play at both ends will be dictated from the deep by Redondo and Carlo. Redondo has the edge here, but then when looking at the other midfielder in the equation Thomas Muller offer so much more attacking threat than Tigana.
Despite perceptions, the gap in midfield is not that wide as people make out to be.
Attack:
Garrincha for all brilliance was not as a consistent goal scorer. The "goal threat" gap between Jairzinho vs Carboni far outweighs Garrincha vs Cabrini. Jairzinho will score as he has done consistently in the WC. If you look at probability of scoring goals here, Jairzinho is the one the watch of the two. Add that in to my superior attack, I'm sure I can outscore him.
Full Backs:
1) As mentioned above Carboni vs Jairzinho will leak to more goals than Cabrini vs Garrincha (See goal comparison in OP).
If you look at different battles that might come into play all through, I have significant advantages overall, especially where in matter...in front of the goal.
1) From a purely defensive view, Carlo ranks equal. I'd rate Carlo's work rate to be higher than Redondo's too.
2) Here you have Desailly on Laudrup. I presume most of play at both ends will be dictated from the deep by Redondo and Carlo. Redondo has the edge here, but then when looking at the other midfielder in the equation Thomas Muller offer so much more attacking threat than Tigana.
Despite perceptions, the gap in midfield is not that wide as people make out to be.
Attack:
Garrincha for all brilliance was not as a consistent goal scorer. The "goal threat" gap between Jairzinho vs Carboni far outweighs Garrincha vs Cabrini. Jairzinho will score as he has done consistently in the WC. If you look at probability of scoring goals here, Jairzinho is the one the watch of the two. Add that in to my superior attack, I'm sure I can outscore him.
Full Backs:
1) As mentioned above Carboni vs Jairzinho will leak to more goals than Cabrini vs Garrincha (See goal comparison in OP).
1.5) Assuming the full backs are occupied, the players in that flank upfront are Del Piero vs Baggio. Baggio is far more lethal and would cause more damage than Del Piero.
2) The full back on the other side are Sagnol and Gerets. Gerets will easily be more effective of the two.If you look at different battles that might come into play all through, I have significant advantages overall, especially where in matter...in front of the goal.
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