Music Serial (podcast)

Spoony said:
What about the alibi and Jay's and Jen's statements that don't match up? For what it's worth Adnan was the only one with a motive.
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You'll have to remind me what his alibi was again, been a while since I listened? I do remember him trying to explain why Jay had his phone and it sounded like complete bullshit.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
You'll have to remind me what his alibi was again, been a while since I listened? I do remember him trying to explain why Jay had his phone and it sounded like complete bullshit.
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Apparently Asia McClain was with him in the library at the time of the murder. Of the little I know Jay's confession was enough to convinct Adnan, no forensics and what not. There's far too much reasonable doubt to put a man behind bars for the rest of his life.
 
Spoony said:
Apparently Asia McClain was with him in the library at the time of the murder. Of the little I know Jay's confession was enough to convinct Adnan, no forensics and what not. There's far too much reasonable doubt to put a man behind bars for the rest of his life.
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And all the phone stuff. Although I believe that's part of the mistrial.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
And all the phone stuff. Although I believe that's part of the mistrial.
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The phone pings should of never been been used in the initial trial as it has been proven that they do not represent the whereabouts.

There was no forensic evidence at all that links Adnan to the crime, they took swabs of all his clothing and shoes etc and found no evidence that he was in Leaking Park.

There's too much reasonable doubt to convict. If he gets a retrial he'll be free.
 
Spoony said:
What was the phone stuff about?
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They had "pings" that put him at various places at the time of the murder.

theyneverlearn said:
The phone pings should of never been been used in the initial trial as it has been proven that they do not represent the whereabouts.

There was no forensic evidence at all that links Adnan to the crime, they took swabs of all his clothing and shoes etc and found no evidence that he was in Leaking Park.

There's too much reasonable doubt to convict. If he gets a retrial he'll be free.
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You may be right. I just remember listening to this thinking he did it. Compared to making a murderer where I thought he was blatantly stitched up.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
They had "pings" that put him at various places at the time of the murder.



You may be right. I just remember listening to this thinking he did it. Compared to making a murderer where I thought he was blatantly stitched up.
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Yeah the pings are unreliable and should've been disregarded at the trial.
 
The pings only applied to certain towers or something.
Been a while since I listened but the reliability factor was countered by modern experts. The unreliability factor doesn't apply to the type of towers in that area
 
Spoony said:
No. Thing is I've only read stuff on the net today and haven't heard any of podcasts. You'll have to point me in the right direction!
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Ah you should have a listen to the podcasts. It's quite an addictive listen whether you think he did it or not. I will have a look, see if I can find the bit I'm on about.
 
Spoony said:
No. Thing is I've only read stuff on the net today and haven't heard any of podcasts. You'll have to point me in the right direction!
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LuisNaniencia said:
Ah you should have a listen to the podcasts. It's quite an addictive listen whether you think he did it or not. I will have a look, see if I can find the bit I'm on about.
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Pretty sure Adnan left his car and phone with Jay for a couple reasons, he left his car with Jay so that he could go buy his GF a present and he sad he left his phone with Jay so that when he was ready to be picked up he would call him.

I don't remember this being suspicious, or raised as an issue during the podcast though.
 
theyneverlearn said:
Pretty sure Adnan left his car and phone with Jay for a couple reasons, he left his car with Jay so that he could go buy his GF a present and he sad he left his phone with Jay so that when he was ready to be picked up he would call him.

I don't remember this being suspicious, or raised as an issue during the podcast though.
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Jay call him on the phone he's left with Jay? See fishy as hell!
 
LuisNaniencia said:
That whole bit is clearly made up.
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Both Adnan and Jay's versions agree that Jay had Adnan's phone and car, and both agree that Jay was using the car to go buy his girlfriend a present.

It's Adnan's phone that they disagree on; Adnan says he left the phone with Jay so when he was done at practice, he would call Jay to come pick him up using his car. Jay's version is that Adnan was going to kill Hae and would call Jay on the cellphone once he had done it.

If you read all of Jay's statements form the initial police interviews, to the 2 versions in court (the first version was during the mistrial); none of them make sense when laid down next to each other. His timeline of events change drastically and it seems that the state only came up with the final version to corroborate with the cell tower pings; which has been proven to not represent the actual positions of incoming calls.
 
theyneverlearn said:
Both Adnan and Jay's versions agree that Jay had Adnan's phone and car, and both agree that Jay was using the car to go buy his girlfriend a present.

It's Adnan's phone that they disagree on; Adnan says he left the phone with Jay so when he was done at practice, he would call Jay to come pick him up using his car. Jay's version is that Adnan was going to kill Hae and would call Jay on the cellphone once he had done it.

If you read all of Jay's statements form the initial police interviews, to the 2 versions in court (the first version was during the mistrial); none of them make sense when laid down next to each other. His timeline of events change drastically and it seems that the state only came up with the final version to corroborate with the cell tower pings; which has been proven to not represent the actual positions of incoming calls.
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What was your conclusion? Adnan did it? Both did it? Jay?
 
Spoony said:
What was your conclusion? Adnan did it? Both did it? Jay?
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The fact that Jay knew of the position of Hae's car and how she was killed makes me believe he was massively involved. Whether he killed her and pinned it on Adnan, or he was involved with Adnan, it's hard to tell.

I think Jay tells too many lies, he burnt clothes and got rid of the shovels, he was trying to hide something. However, I can not discount that Adnan was involved somehow.

There is just not enough evidence to convict, and that's the problem with the state if there is another trial.
 
Most statements change from police station to courtroom though. That's not out of the ordinary.
As a summary on one of the last podcasts said, Adnan would have to be the victim of the most unluckiest of circumstances on 3/4 occassions for him not be guilty. You really have to stretch logic and probability to believe him.
Pleading out that he cant remember to fill in the void is too convenient. Too easy of a cop out.
 
For all of the question marks on the case, the holes in the prosecution etc nothing can account for Jay. That's the fundamental issue. What's his motive for lying (if he is)?

Best bet, they both did it but not in the manner described at trial.
 
Did this in one go, really gripping stuff. Fascinating case but it did often feel like a treading water exercise. It does however do a really good job of highlighting the prejudice, emotionalism, preconceptions and other biases that are involved in a court case like this. The presenter was great, partly because we glimpse the limitations and fallibility of human judgement through her changing responses to the case.

My totally biased view is that there seems to be reasonable doubt based on the evidence presented by the show, but goddamn Adnan's total obliviousness to the actual act was really unconvincing. Besides if jay constructed his entire involvement then I would have expected Adnan to fall through one of the many holes in Jay's account, but he remained unaccounted for in my view.

Really enjoyable but I do wonder whether these types of investigations (which are becoming ubiquitous) are actually a good thing. I get the feeling that even featuring these cases on such a show colours the way we view them. They often seem to descend into murky situations where everything becomes questionable and that's even before you introduce the uncertainty principle of the amateur web sleuth.
 
dumbo said:
Did this in one go, really gripping stuff. Fascinating case but it did often feel like a treading water exercise. It does however do a really good job of highlighting the prejudice, emotionalism, preconceptions and other biases that are involved in a court case like this. The presenter was great, partly because we glimpse the limitations and fallibility of human judgement through her changing responses to the case.

My totally biased view is that there seems to be reasonable doubt based on the evidence presented by the show, but goddamn Adnan's total obliviousness to the actual act was really unconvincing. Besides if jay constructed his entire involvement then I would have expected Adnan to fall through one of the many holes in Jay's account, but he remained unaccounted for in my view.

Really enjoyable but I do wonder whether these types of investigations (which are becoming ubiquitous) are actually a good thing. I get the feeling that even featuring these cases on such a show colours the way we view them. They often seem to descend into murky situations where everything becomes questionable and that's even before you introduce the uncertainty principle of the amateur web sleuth.
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I’ll save you some pain and recommend you don’t even bother with S2. It’s pants. S3 coming out shortly. I actually thought that was why the thread was bumped. Hopefully a return to form.

Meanwhile, seek out “West Cork”. You won’t regret it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’ll save you some pain and recommend you don’t even bother with S2. It’s pants. S3 coming out shortly. I actually thought that was why the thread was bumped. Hopefully a return to form.

Meanwhile, seek out “West Cork”. You won’t regret it.
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West cork is only on audible isn't it? Really want to try that one.
 
dumbo said:
Did this in one go, really gripping stuff. Fascinating case but it did often feel like a treading water exercise. It does however do a really good job of highlighting the prejudice, emotionalism, preconceptions and other biases that are involved in a court case like this. The presenter was great, partly because we glimpse the limitations and fallibility of human judgement through her changing responses to the case.

My totally biased view is that there seems to be reasonable doubt based on the evidence presented by the show, but goddamn Adnan's total obliviousness to the actual act was really unconvincing. Besides if jay constructed his entire involvement then I would have expected Adnan to fall through one of the many holes in Jay's account, but he remained unaccounted for in my view.

Really enjoyable but I do wonder whether these types of investigations (which are becoming ubiquitous) are actually a good thing. I get the feeling that even featuring these cases on such a show colours the way we view them. They often seem to descend into murky situations where everything becomes questionable and that's even before you introduce the uncertainty principle of the amateur web sleuth.
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I think that there is a great deal of value in them in certain situations, albeit you have to be very wary of the motives and intentions of the people involved, IMHO. For example, the Undicslosed Podcast, which is heavily affiliated to Adnan Syed and his defence fund, was very interesting for a while and did a much better, albeit one-sided job of deep-diving into the evidence. Without them doing that, I'm not sure he'd have gotten to the point where he is now. But you also have to accept that the people involved are incredibly emotionally invested. They're not even pretending that what they're doing is an impartial investigation. What they were doing, though they can't say it in such bald terms, is/was pre-emptively playing the upcoming trial out in the Court of public opinion and, somewhat more troublingly, presenting as entertainment a carefully crafted laying of the ground for a new appeal.

One other issue with these sorts of investigations is that they so often rely upon aged witness testimony and, worse again, eye-witness accounts. I won't bore anyone with the various studies (here's one light article on the subject http://theconversation.com/new-research-reveals-how-little-we-can-trust-eyewitnesses-67663), but the reliability of eye-witness testimony is incredibly hit and miss, yet it's treated as irrefutable proof, particularly in these sorts of entertainment-masquerading-as-criminological-study situations.

Also, as Pogue says, avoid Season 2 like the plague. Utter shite.
 
Just downloaded and listened to half of the first episode of season 3, and i'm liking it so far. I like the premise for this season, too. It's basically focusing on the Cleveland Justice Centre and each episode will focus on a different case. I never really got into season 2, but i'm eager to listen to more of this one already.
 
Season 3 has been good so far. Not as gripping as it's separate stories every week but still super interesting. The language Koenig uses is incredible.
 
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Zebs said:
Season 2 has been good so far. Not as gripping as it's separate stories every week but still super interesting. The language Koenig uses is incredible.
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You mean Season 3, right?

Has anyone listened to Ear Hustle? It’s recorded in San Quentin prison, co-produced by prisoners and goes deep into what life is really like in prison. Fascinating stuff. Three seasons out and I can’t stop binging.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You mean Season 3, right?

Has anyone listened to Ear Hustle? It’s recorded in San Quentin prison, co-produced by prisoners and goes deep into what life is really like in prison. Fascinating stuff. Three seasons out and I can’t stop binging.
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Oops, yes. Fixed.
 
Season 3 ep1 was good, slightly different approach this season but really enjoyable. She is a good storyteller!
 
Haven't listened to the third episode yet, but that second one was crazy. That judge! Fecking hell
 
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