Sergio Ramos

He mixes the mediocre with the great but provided his team wins and his mistakes don't get punished the mediocre gets forgotten. Take the match against Ajax. Some will swear that was a defensive clinic, but just in that match he made errors that should've led to goals. He however mixed that in with great pieces of defensive play that is all some remember from the game strangly enough.

Truly great defenders put on faultless performances. Barely make mistakes and combine that with great defending. Sure almost every defender can get done by great attacking but not make errors that potentially lead to goals.
 
Ramos has always played for teams priding themselves that they will just outscore the opposition.

Having to defend a high line and often dealing with one on one situations is different to a well drilled bank sitting deeper with midfield and your fellow defenders closer to you than what ramos has had to work with.

I'd like like to see how baresi would have fared in a similar setup where the fullbacks leave you hanging, no Rijkaard/desailly sitting in front of you and you have to defend a 45 meter long zone rather than a 20 meter long zone with even less support.
 
B20 said:
Ramos has always played for teams priding themselves that they will just outscore the opposition.

Having to defend a high line and often dealing with one on one situations is different to a well drilled bank sitting deeper with midfield and your fellow defenders closer to you than what ramos has had to work with.

I'd like like to see how baresi would have fared in a similar setup where the fullbacks leave you hanging, no Rijkaard/desailly sitting in front of you and you have to defend a 45 meter long zone rather than a 20 meter long zone with even less support.
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He played under Mourinho for 3 seasons.
 
He was absolutely immense in the game against Ajax.

He's still good for at least one brainfart per game. His card record is absolutely ridiculous. But that doesn't ddetract from him being one of the best players of his generation.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
I'd rather have those guys then sell my sole to the devil and have that overrated piece of turd wearing our shirt...
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Not trying to start an argument but if you're serious about that you need your head checked.

You'd basically have 4 average CB's instead having one of the best, if not the best defender of his generation. The guy won 4UCL's, World Cup, Euros and was an integral part in all of those wins.

He's a cnut, but you need a cnut in your team, a leader type of cnut. Roy Keane was an absolute cnut and nobody is moaning around here about it.

A aggressive and cnuttish player is exactly what is missing from our defense, hell from our whole team.

Jeez
 
youmeletsfly said:
Not trying to start an argument but if you're serious about that you need your head checked.

You'd basically have 4 average CB's instead having one of the best, if not the best defender of his generation. The guy won 4UCL's, World Cup, Euros and was an integral part in all of those wins.

He's a cnut, but you need a cnut in your team, a leader type of cnut. Roy Keane was an absolute cnut and nobody is moaning around here about it.

A aggressive and cnuttish player is exactly what is missing from our defense, hell from our whole team.

Jeez
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Ramos is not one of the best. Not even close. How he has convinced people that he is one of the best is a real head scratcher for me. He is likely the most over rated defender of all time. He is constantly out of position, constantly making mistakes (if you guys can't handle Jones' occasssional F up then don't even think about Ramos) and is probably the dirtiest player to ever play the game. This guys red cards would make Duncan Ferguson blush. I agree that we need leadership and some grit, but this is not the guy to provide that and I'm glad he's at Real Madrid...they deserve each other
 
B20 said:
Ramos has always played for teams priding themselves that they will just outscore the opposition.

Having to defend a high line and often dealing with one on one situations is different to a well drilled bank sitting deeper with midfield and your fellow defenders closer to you than what ramos has had to work with.

I'd like like to see how baresi would have fared in a similar setup where the fullbacks leave you hanging, no Rijkaard/desailly sitting in front of you and you have to defend a 45 meter long zone rather than a 20 meter long zone with even less support.
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I take it you never saw Sacchi's milan

On that note, Costacurta called his performance against ajax one of the best he's ever seen.

And ffs, we need somebody with the team who remembers the rules :mad::(
 
Infordin said:
Ramos and Pique will be remembered much more fondly in 20 years from now, when people forget about mistakes in irrelevant league games and instead focus on their incredible trophy cabinets and big game performances.
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Pique can't be put in the same sentence with Ramos (imo). Ramos is a one man team, a defender, a goalscorer, a captain, a difference maker.

Pique is just a really good CB in a team that don't do much defending so his awful atlethicism is not so visible most of the time.

I'm not expecting you to agree, just saying it how I see it.
 
giorno said:
I take it you never saw Sacchi's milan

On that note, Costacurta called his performance against ajax one of the best he's ever seen.

And ffs, we need somebody with the team who remembers the rules :mad::(
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Tadic was causing Nacho all kind of problems, winning every header. That's one of the reasons Ramos had so much work last Wednesday. That and Ajax fitness and their kamikaze style, (the right one for the game).

The highlights are truely impressive, I hadn't seen them before.
 
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Rooney in Paris said:
I really don't think they are, I'm surprised by how much people are raving about the game (though it was a good performance of course).
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Watched it as well and admittedly being called “one of the best defensive performances ever” seems way OTT.

Great performance though, mind you & maybe I’m missing a lot of context because I’ve not watched the full match.
 
Imagine how well he'd be remembered if he hadn't repeatedly let his team down with red cards.
 
Ishdalar said:
He plays on the brink of disaster, some of his cuts yesterday like the one he clears with a scissor kick can turn bad, on a great game, and suddenly it costs a goal and your 10 performance now is a 3 or a 4.

When things go his way yeah, he's great, when he's 20cm short, or 1 second late, it can mean disaster for Real Madrid. I'd like someone with a more consistent style for my team. Yeah I'm a Barcelona fan but I've had to put up with his nonsense in the NT too.
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I read this on Thursday and half agreed but not entirely. Your comment is spot on given today's events!
 
Really think the standard of defending in this generation has fallen dramatically if Ramos' defending abilities are considered world class. He's an amazing leader and often a big game player but he's just full of too many mistakes and indiscipline. He's not a patch on Rio, Vidic, Terry and Carvalho for me (defensively). Even Pique has been way off his game for years now. He's had a decent year this season but he's also full of way too many mistakes imo.
 
B20 said:
Ramos has always played for teams priding themselves that they will just outscore the opposition.

Having to defend a high line and often dealing with one on one situations is different to a well drilled bank sitting deeper with midfield and your fellow defenders closer to you than what ramos has had to work with.

I'd like like to see how baresi would have fared in a similar setup where the fullbacks leave you hanging, no Rijkaard/desailly sitting in front of you and you have to defend a 45 meter long zone rather than a 20 meter long zone with even less support.
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I agree with the general point which is why many of today's best defenders are under-rated in the all-time stakes. But Baresi isn't the best example to make that point IMO, given Sacchi's aggressive offside trap, high pressing and midfield compactness meaning that Milan often played a fairly high line. High or deep, Baresi mastered them both.
 
Will never, or at least shouldn’t in my books, be a great defender. No doubt he’ll go down as one of the great players of all time, but he is such a hit and miss defender. You can never say a defender with his cautions and dismissals can be considered a great. Absolute liability.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Will never, or at least shouldn’t in my books, be a great defender. No doubt he’ll go down as one of the great players of all time, but he is such a hit and miss defender. You can never say a defender with his cautions and dismissals can be considered a great. Absolute liability.
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Spot on. When I hear phrases like "best defender of this generation" then see his name afterwards I have to do a double take. The reason he lasted so long at real is because he is Spanish. He scores crucial goals in the cl then people talk about his defending??? Makes 0 sense.
 
He's such an amazing defender. First player to get 20 red cards in La Liga.

Possibly the most overrated defender of all time. Not because he's not a good player, but because some people mention him in greatest ever conversations, which is ridiculous.
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's such an amazing defender. First player to get 20 red cards in La Liga.

Possibly the most overrated defender of all time. Not because he's not a good player, but because some people mention him in greatest ever conversations, which is ridiculous.
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But but he won 4 cls!
 
He’s not the best defender of his generation but he’s not far off it either. Opinions on Ramos have two very different extremes but the truth is in the middle.

The masterclass vs Ajax on Tuesday wasn’t anything new at that stage. He’s been regularly doing that for years in the CL knockouts.

There is a more than obvious shift in focus and concentration depending on which competition he’s playing.
 
Ramos is controversial but if you watch Real consistently there's not way they would have had the success that they've had without him. You can pretty much trade him for any other CB in the world and I don't think they would have fared as well. It's not just about looking at his quality in a vacuum but also how he fits the Real Madrid style. They need his type of defender and what he does he's the best at in the world. He's aggressive, can bully any attacker, is a beast in the air both at the back and in attack and is good with the ball at his feet. This kind of aggression of temperament comes with it's downside but that's not ultimately a decider in his quality. Not many CBs can also be the team's X-factor.
 
Snow said:
Ramos is controversial but if you watch Real consistently there's not way they would have had the success that they've had without him. You can pretty much trade him for any other CB in the world and I don't think they would have fared as well. It's not just about looking at his quality in a vacuum but also how he fits the Real Madrid style. They need his type of defender and what he does he's the best at in the world. He's aggressive, can bully any attacker, is a beast in the air both at the back and in attack and is good with the ball at his feet. This kind of aggression of temperament comes with it's downside but that's not ultimately a decider in his quality. Not many CBs can also be the team's X-factor.
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I would love him as a team-mate, coach or fan.
 
Snow said:
Ramos is controversial but if you watch Real consistently there's not way they would have had the success that they've had without him. You can pretty much trade him for any other CB in the world and I don't think they would have fared as well. It's not just about looking at his quality in a vacuum but also how he fits the Real Madrid style. They need his type of defender and what he does he's the best at in the world. He's aggressive, can bully any attacker, is a beast in the air both at the back and in attack and is good with the ball at his feet. This kind of aggression of temperament comes with it's downside but that's not ultimately a decider in his quality. Not many CBs can also be the team's X-factor.
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Not everyone sees what you see. We'd be nowhere without him. He is a special special player.

Just think about this, he took 9 or 10 penalties this season, scored all of them and only 3 were not panenka's. Hilariously extreme.
 
Who cares how good he REALLY is, he's a twat, therefore he's overrated, end of story.

Edit: ok that Panenka stat is awesome:lol:
 
. I don't know if you consider both on the same generation, but I rate Puyol higher than Ramos.
 
gaucho_10 said:
Not everyone sees what you see. We'd be nowhere without him. He is a special special player.

Just think about this, he took 9 or 10 penalties this season, scored all of them and only 3 were not panenka's. Hilariously extreme.
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So where are you with him this season?
 
Gio said:
I agree with the general point which is why many of today's best defenders are under-rated in the all-time stakes. But Baresi isn't the best example to make that point IMO, given Sacchi's aggressive offside trap, high pressing and midfield compactness meaning that Milan often played a fairly high line. High or deep, Baresi mastered them both.
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Baresi played with a completely different offside rule at Sacchi's Milan, so it still makes no sense to compare both situations.

 
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