I feel some blaming here, but remember United are supposed to be a football club who gives total freedom to the manager, Woodward as the new CEO wasn't in a position to force Moyes to do anything, people would have lambasted him for that, that's why I think Gill and SAF shouldn't have done it by purchasing the players and give zero pounds to Moyes, from the first day United put Woodward in a difficult position.
Self delusion or monumental cock up?
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
I feel some blaming here, but remember United are supposed to be a football club who gives total freedom to the manager, Woodward as the new CEO wasn't in a position to force Moyes to do anything, people would have lambasted him for that, that's why I think Gill and SAF shouldn't have done it by purchasing the players and give zero pounds to Moyes, from the first day United put Woodward in a difficult position.
there is one thing many people tend to forget - money that SAF left.
SAF may have under invested in the squad but this money was left for his successor. I have no doubt these 300 mil spent by Dumb and Dumber had been accumulated in Ferige's last years.
SAF may have under invested in the squad but this money was left for his successor. I have no doubt these 300 mil spent by Dumb and Dumber had been accumulated in Ferige's last years.
That is a pretty damn good post, yes we knew there needed investment, but? the irony is? I do not think the squad is fully to blame, who is to blame? Moyes, VG and the board making one bad decision after another. Appointing Moyes truly was the biggest feck up in the club's history by this board, and we kept going to new lows, it was one thing appointing VG, but VG kept almost by purpose kept shooting himself in the foot, alienating the fans, the players, VG seems to concentrate everything on picking fights with players and the media than doing his own job. Sir Bobby always said he did not want Mourinho in charge because he is poison, VG seems the Mourinho 2.0, he is more than poison, he is atom time bomb, and for me that time bomb truly has counted down to zero, we just have a board that has stuck by this time bomb, despite the catastrophic damage VG has done which has led to our second downfall after working so hard getting back into the CL, VG has destroyed all the hard work he put in place last season. It almost seems like he should have had a 2 year deal, come in last season and leave it to a new manager this season
Fergie didn't hand things on a silver platter to Moyes, there were clear areas of weakness and degrees of modernising needed in terms of personnel and playing style.
But how often does a manager get to take over;
A title winning side?
A side brimming with winning experience and confidence?
A side not in disarray?
A huge transfer budget?
A club (and fans) genuinely willing to show patience? (to a greater extent than any other club our size).
Things could have been better but there was plenty to work with and ample resources to address any issues. It was not Ferguson's job to make the task entirely idiot proof and whilst some of his mistakes/oversights have come back to haunt us, the burden of blame has to fall squarely on those that inherited these challenges and did nothing or made their own errors in correcting them. Fergie found a way to work around any deficiencies, those after seem to have wallowed in them.
But how often does a manager get to take over;
A title winning side?
A side brimming with winning experience and confidence?
A side not in disarray?
A huge transfer budget?
A club (and fans) genuinely willing to show patience? (to a greater extent than any other club our size).
Things could have been better but there was plenty to work with and ample resources to address any issues. It was not Ferguson's job to make the task entirely idiot proof and whilst some of his mistakes/oversights have come back to haunt us, the burden of blame has to fall squarely on those that inherited these challenges and did nothing or made their own errors in correcting them. Fergie found a way to work around any deficiencies, those after seem to have wallowed in them.
I think SAF left a decent squad IF they stayed motivated but it was clear that Moyes never had the ability to motivate them.
If anything, Moyes actively demotivated them.
If we had gotten a proven winner like Mourinho coming in, the squad would've been fine.
This!
He basically started off by doing everything against SAF's wishes, and I believe we are still feeling the impact of that.
We say Giggs's greatest credential to be our manager is simply "He knows Manchester United".
Well we had plenty of people that knew about winning and about Manchester United but Moyes decided his friends were better.
We probably lost at least 50 years of combined Manchester United experience during Moyes's rein
And then there was the Rooney thing.
He is still the massive white elephant that cannot be shifted.
If anything, Moyes actively demotivated them.
If we had gotten a proven winner like Mourinho coming in, the squad would've been fine.
This!
He basically started off by doing everything against SAF's wishes, and I believe we are still feeling the impact of that.
We say Giggs's greatest credential to be our manager is simply "He knows Manchester United".
Well we had plenty of people that knew about winning and about Manchester United but Moyes decided his friends were better.
We probably lost at least 50 years of combined Manchester United experience during Moyes's rein
And then there was the Rooney thing.
He is still the massive white elephant that cannot be shifted.
Ferguson had won the PL and he probably would have beaten Real Madrid in the CL, if it wasn't for Nani's red card. Furthermore, he knew English football like the back of his hand. He knew how to create sides that could get maximum points against most midtable English clubs which deploy a rather formulaic 4-4-2 based on wing play, pace and strength. He also was a great motivator who had his way of getting the message that " if you want to be in this club, there are certain standards you have to meet under any circumstances" through. Since his first PL title in 1993, he finished 3rd only once.
We should also bare in mind that he would have probably sold Rooney and he wouldn't have signed Mata. That's two under performing senior players (on the highest wages too) who were a massive problem for Moyes and are still a problem for LvG. Never in his managerial career Ferguson had created such a mess despite having his share of bad buys like Veron. So, by his standards getting another forward to replace Rooney plus a CB, a winger and a midfielder would do the job.
But his standards include a great understanding, from the manager's perspective, of the particularities of the English game. That was his biggest "weapon" after all and that's what we're missing right now. Ferguson created sides that knew how to defend deep and narrow and then get the ball forward with two or three passes via wing play and the use of the long diagonal. It sounds simple but it's not because it requires playing with the foot on the gas and creating as many chances as possible.
And Ferguson always had four attackers to rotate and enough choices on the wings in order to play his brand of football and get his goals.
Moyes and LvG come from very different schools of thought but they share one thing in common regarding the way they handled the United squad. They both decided to build the first team on the principle that "the fewer the chances on both ends-the higher the possibility to win the match". Moyes did it because he actually believes in it and LvG did it because he can't create an attacking team with these players. Does anyone remember the 2010 Bayern-United clash? Hardly a defensive Bayern side that one...
We can sit here and talk about deficiencies in the first team, most of the posts i've read here make valid points. But then again Fergie would point at Leicester and say: "do you see? High tempo, get the ball forward quickly, lots of first time balls and shots and two players to get 40 goals and 25 assists. That's all you need".
We should also bare in mind that he would have probably sold Rooney and he wouldn't have signed Mata. That's two under performing senior players (on the highest wages too) who were a massive problem for Moyes and are still a problem for LvG. Never in his managerial career Ferguson had created such a mess despite having his share of bad buys like Veron. So, by his standards getting another forward to replace Rooney plus a CB, a winger and a midfielder would do the job.
But his standards include a great understanding, from the manager's perspective, of the particularities of the English game. That was his biggest "weapon" after all and that's what we're missing right now. Ferguson created sides that knew how to defend deep and narrow and then get the ball forward with two or three passes via wing play and the use of the long diagonal. It sounds simple but it's not because it requires playing with the foot on the gas and creating as many chances as possible.
And Ferguson always had four attackers to rotate and enough choices on the wings in order to play his brand of football and get his goals.
Moyes and LvG come from very different schools of thought but they share one thing in common regarding the way they handled the United squad. They both decided to build the first team on the principle that "the fewer the chances on both ends-the higher the possibility to win the match". Moyes did it because he actually believes in it and LvG did it because he can't create an attacking team with these players. Does anyone remember the 2010 Bayern-United clash? Hardly a defensive Bayern side that one...
We can sit here and talk about deficiencies in the first team, most of the posts i've read here make valid points. But then again Fergie would point at Leicester and say: "do you see? High tempo, get the ball forward quickly, lots of first time balls and shots and two players to get 40 goals and 25 assists. That's all you need".
Yep. Not only that, but he left us as champions; what more could he reasonably have done?
But finding somebody with a football background as chairman who us savy and credible enough in the financial world to do our new commercial deals and be involved in the next round of shares offered is pretty much impossible... as such a DOF on the board seems the best solution to me - perhaps not SAF or LVG (though if you are looking for somebody to oversea re-development of our youth teams and scouting networks either of those would be good choices but as you say structuring the job to be right for them may be difficult)
Let's be honest, it's all Moyes fault. He wasted the first transfer window, he wasted his second transfer window, he sacked the staff that Fergie explicitly told him to keep...the guy was an incompetent moron. Frankly we should be suing him for sabotage.
I put woodward right up there in that 1st season it was the blind leading the blind
Yes, it was a ridiculous decision to let the two top members of an organisation leave at the same time.
Why the heck can't the CFO and the commercial team take care of those things? They do at other clubs. The primary business of United is football, and so the chairman ought to know something about the business of football. I don't mind Woodward learning on the job as he seems a smart fellow, but if he's going to leave the football side entirely to the manager there are going to be problems. Every manager needs a chairman to balance him.
You could make a case for keeping around 80% of those players, but that would be stupid and foolish. About as stupid and foolish as inheriting a squad full of good players packed with title winning and CL experience and discarding 80% of them replacing most without significantly upgrading on them or in many cases not even replacing them at all.
Net spend, here we go. Way to completely miss the point. Net spend is irrelevant we still spent that £60m on a player we didn't do enough research on who didn't want to be here. We then sold him at a loss with 4 years on his contract and didn't fecking replace him.
He was meant to be a ready to go game changer we needed, even in so so form he still set up a load of goals last year. Think 14 assists or something. Sound like someone who would have came in handy to a team struggling to score?
He hasn't been replaced it's another example of piss poor squad management.
Yeah good signing pity we assumed he would never get injured as we have no back up for him. Blind and Rojo are our first and second choice Left CB's so its not them. To go into a season with only Darmian, Shaw, Jones, Smalling, and Rojo as recognised senior defenders considering our history with defensive injuries was mental. Blind has been ok but he wouldn't have been playing back there if we had signed the left footed CB Van Gaal covets.
A player demotivated is that the first time that has ever happened? No then its the managers job to motivate him again. We should have kept Nani until Depay settled. Depay might be a great player in the future but current Nani would be a much more useful player for us.
Buying Darmian was fine, but again we assumed he would never get injured we have no other recognised RB's. We should have kept Rafael until Darmian settled. As it is he is currently not that good and ironically up to this point as injury prone as Rafael.
Have we though? The likes of CBJ and McNair are only getting games due to a massive injury crisis, Lingard is only playing because we sold Di Maria and failed to sign Bale, Muller or Neymar with strong rumours we tried to buy all three.
If we are giving youth a chance then why was our most promising youngster sent to sit on dortmunds bench, or Wilson sent on loan. Giving youth a chance indeed.
For my money the squad is really no better shape than it was 3 years ago arguably worse, we still look 4-6 players off winning the League/CL. We have wasted a shit load of money. Van Gaal has never had this much free reign before in his career. Nearly all of his past success has came under a DOF. He has made a complete hash of rebuilding this squad (and Moyes to be fair) and it will cost him his job sooner or later.
And i am a long time fan of Van Gaal i really am, but he's taken way too many risks. Stupid ones, the squad he inherited should have built upon not gutted to play real life Football Manager. If we had added £300m worth of talent to the squad SAF left and only let some of the older and fringe players leave, we would be in a much better position than we are right now.
The owners take ultimate responsibility for that monumental feck up. So does the heirachy at the club.
They had time to plan for Fergie's departure and made an awful fecking mess of it. It's true I've never the liked the leaching scum..but if they could have at least done their job properly it would have been something.
The club is in a disgraceful state in terms of football from top to bottom right now IMO. But hey, they are still making shedloads of money. So do they give a feck? Do they bollocks. Speaking to some Tampa Bay fans recently it seems a familiar story with these dickheads.
In reference to Fergie, no I didn't think he left the team in good order. However he still managed to win the league with them. Ferguson really wasn't responsible for the team going forward...though it would have been a bonus.
I don’t believe this myth that it’s SAF fault we find yourselves in the position we are today because he left a weak squad.
I’m not arguing the squad was good enough but what’s the point in Fergie splashing the cash on new players the season before he left only for the person who takes over to come in and what completely new personnel? I think SAF did the right thing by not spending huge amount of cash in his later years and leaving the pot as big as possible for the new manager to get the players he wanted. As it turns out Moyes and Woodward fecked that up. Spent a whole summer chasing Fabregas, who was never going to join us. Once they realised he wasn’t coming they tried to make a last ditch attempt to get Bale which was even more speculative/stupid. Once everything had failed they panic bought a Tree for an inflated price.
Next came LVG and has managed to piss away £250m. The rest is history.
I’m not arguing the squad was good enough but what’s the point in Fergie splashing the cash on new players the season before he left only for the person who takes over to come in and what completely new personnel? I think SAF did the right thing by not spending huge amount of cash in his later years and leaving the pot as big as possible for the new manager to get the players he wanted. As it turns out Moyes and Woodward fecked that up. Spent a whole summer chasing Fabregas, who was never going to join us. Once they realised he wasn’t coming they tried to make a last ditch attempt to get Bale which was even more speculative/stupid. Once everything had failed they panic bought a Tree for an inflated price.
Next came LVG and has managed to piss away £250m. The rest is history.
Absolutely.
I don't believe LVG has pissed away 250 million though. I think his signings are of good quality. Just not playing in this fashion.
Tend to agree, however Di Maria was a monumental feck up on his part IMO
EDIT: And on the players of course.
Because one of the reasons we are not directly comparable to other clubs is we are much more marketable, have bigger incomes and are a broader commercial operation - as such the chairman needs to understand those aspects better at united than at other clubs... I think a DOF (who can be taught more about the commercial operation) and a Chairman (who is willing to learn about how football operates diferent to other businesses) is a good model for us.
I actually think the primary business of united (legally speaking and in actuality) is making money for investors - the football has sadly been relegated to just one of those things we need to be good at to continue to make money.
The Glazers will have an exit strategy (if they exersise it or not will no doubt be under regular review) but whilst they own us I dont see things changing - that said they know we will ultimatley loose marketability and thus revenue and profits if we are not competing at the top so I dont think they are going under-invest in the team but the culture and mentality of the board wont change either
It was aye, but we recouped most of the fee by the sounds.
I was really excited about Di Maria...
This exactly. Moyes was a complete idiot - he went for players we didn't need at all. LVG at least has the football acumen to realize where we lack and has strengthened in exactly those areas.
We have a much balanced squad. His football style is the problem now.
This thread takes me back to the year Moyes was in charge, we used to discuss this to death back then.
I agree with this - up to a point.
The only thing I would add to it is that I think a bit of turbulence / regression was inevitable. I just dont think you can lose a character like Ferguson and continue seamlessly as though nothing had happened, even if we had signed the right players and even if the incoming manager(s) had been higher quality. But it didnt have to be as bad as this.
In fact I think the board understood the inevitability of the problems we would experience (again, not that the extent of them was inevitable) and that has been another big factor: the fact we expected things to be a bit difficult in the transition masked the scale of the problems we were experiencing. What was taken to be merely transitional adjustment was actually the first signs of rot setting in; the boat was going down but we cheerfully dismissed it as nothing more than expected bad weather.
As ever I therefore think the answer is a bit more subtle than the question allows for. I think what SAF said was true, but he underestimated, or probably anticipated but thought it would be more politic not to mention, that his departure would leave a vacuum that would be hard to fill and would probably lead to us falling away a little bit for a while - though not this far, or probably for as long. This created circumstances where any problems could quickly escalate and become hard to control. And there were no shortage of problems created by a series of poor decisions, ensuring what might have been the football equivalent of a bad cold instead turned into Spanish Flu.
I agree with this - up to a point.
The only thing I would add to it is that I think a bit of turbulence / regression was inevitable. I just dont think you can lose a character like Ferguson and continue seamlessly as though nothing had happened, even if we had signed the right players and even if the incoming manager(s) had been higher quality. But it didnt have to be as bad as this.
In fact I think the board understood the inevitability of the problems we would experience (again, not that the extent of them was inevitable) and that has been another big factor: the fact we expected things to be a bit difficult in the transition masked the scale of the problems we were experiencing. What was taken to be merely transitional adjustment was actually the first signs of rot setting in; the boat was going down but we cheerfully dismissed it as nothing more than expected bad weather.
As ever I therefore think the answer is a bit more subtle than the question allows for. I think what SAF said was true, but he underestimated, or probably anticipated but thought it would be more politic not to mention, that his departure would leave a vacuum that would be hard to fill and would probably lead to us falling away a little bit for a while - though not this far, or probably for as long. This created circumstances where any problems could quickly escalate and become hard to control. And there were no shortage of problems created by a series of poor decisions, ensuring what might have been the football equivalent of a bad cold instead turned into Spanish Flu.
great post
indeed in most cases a manager takes over a club that has just fired another manager for poor performances and right away has a job on their hands to turn results around
Somewhere in the middle.
I do believe Fergie left us in a weaker position that he should have. Yes, we won the title, but there were obvious things which he should have sorted out himself previously, rather than leaving it for 'the next guy'. Central midfield had been crying for attention for years, and on top of that it was obvious that the amazing defence we had was coming to an end all at the same time. I don't expect him to have sorted all of those things out, but I do think he left us one or two key players short from what he should have.
In saying that, there was no way in hell things should have gone as badly as they did. Even with Fergie leaving us that bit short, a decent manager would have kept us comfortably in the top four even if he wasn't able to actually win the title. Moyes completely fecked up on the transfer side of things, and then proceeded to feck up on the field as well. LVG I have a bit more sympathy for as I do believe that with a bit of luck he could have done well, but the key fault I have with him is that when he has had that bad luck (a combination of injuries and players that he relied on simply not performing to the level he rightfully expected them to) he's proven unable to make changes or find ways to make things work.
I do believe Fergie left us in a weaker position that he should have. Yes, we won the title, but there were obvious things which he should have sorted out himself previously, rather than leaving it for 'the next guy'. Central midfield had been crying for attention for years, and on top of that it was obvious that the amazing defence we had was coming to an end all at the same time. I don't expect him to have sorted all of those things out, but I do think he left us one or two key players short from what he should have.
In saying that, there was no way in hell things should have gone as badly as they did. Even with Fergie leaving us that bit short, a decent manager would have kept us comfortably in the top four even if he wasn't able to actually win the title. Moyes completely fecked up on the transfer side of things, and then proceeded to feck up on the field as well. LVG I have a bit more sympathy for as I do believe that with a bit of luck he could have done well, but the key fault I have with him is that when he has had that bad luck (a combination of injuries and players that he relied on simply not performing to the level he rightfully expected them to) he's proven unable to make changes or find ways to make things work.
It is unrealistic to assume the next manager will share the same tastes regarding players. Very few players are so amazing that every manager would want them in their team. Most players have strengths and weaknesses.
In hindsight, both Moyes and LVG were a terrible match for the squad Sir Alex left behind. They simply didn't rate an alarming number of perfectly decent, title winning players.
Personally I don't think Sir Alex should have left a squad including so many players aged 30+ but it is difficult to know who will still be performing at a decent level in their early - mid 30s, and who will be totally past it.
My other complaint would be that Sir Alex should have bought (or promoted) fewer young players but invested more playing time in those he did, so that they were ready for the next manager. For instance, one of Smalling/Jones. Given Fabio playing time rather than a loan with Buttner arriving. The Zaha purchase was just plain stupid as the next manager could easily have gone through with it in the summer if he rated Zaha.
Bringing in RVP helped Sir Alex but made life more difficult for the next manager and didn't help Hernandez, Welbeck or Kagawa.
In hindsight, both Moyes and LVG were a terrible match for the squad Sir Alex left behind. They simply didn't rate an alarming number of perfectly decent, title winning players.
Personally I don't think Sir Alex should have left a squad including so many players aged 30+ but it is difficult to know who will still be performing at a decent level in their early - mid 30s, and who will be totally past it.
My other complaint would be that Sir Alex should have bought (or promoted) fewer young players but invested more playing time in those he did, so that they were ready for the next manager. For instance, one of Smalling/Jones. Given Fabio playing time rather than a loan with Buttner arriving. The Zaha purchase was just plain stupid as the next manager could easily have gone through with it in the summer if he rated Zaha.
Bringing in RVP helped Sir Alex but made life more difficult for the next manager and didn't help Hernandez, Welbeck or Kagawa.
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I really don't get the "Ferguson left a weak squad" argument.
We know what the squad had just accomplished when he bequeathed it to Moyes. What we Ferguson supposed to do? Stay through June and do the buying for Moyes and then let Moyes take over in July? Of course not. It was Moyes's own responsibility to fill the gaps in the squad as he saw them and what did he do?
He bought Fellaini.
While Mourinho and Pellegrini went straight to work after their appointment and began strengthening their squad, Moyes went on vacation and showed up for work on July 1 completely bewildered. He obsessed over scouting reports, went in for completely unrealistic names life Fabregas and then on the last day of the transfer window bought a player who was well short of United quality.
There were definitely gaps in the squad in Ferguson's last season but they were gaps that Moyes could have easily addressed in June, had he not gone on vacation. Strootman, for example, was right there for the taking at a reasonable 20-25m fee but instead he dithered and stared into the headlights.
We know what the squad had just accomplished when he bequeathed it to Moyes. What we Ferguson supposed to do? Stay through June and do the buying for Moyes and then let Moyes take over in July? Of course not. It was Moyes's own responsibility to fill the gaps in the squad as he saw them and what did he do?
He bought Fellaini.
While Mourinho and Pellegrini went straight to work after their appointment and began strengthening their squad, Moyes went on vacation and showed up for work on July 1 completely bewildered. He obsessed over scouting reports, went in for completely unrealistic names life Fabregas and then on the last day of the transfer window bought a player who was well short of United quality.
There were definitely gaps in the squad in Ferguson's last season but they were gaps that Moyes could have easily addressed in June, had he not gone on vacation. Strootman, for example, was right there for the taking at a reasonable 20-25m fee but instead he dithered and stared into the headlights.
I think the club in general, not just Fergie, have not adapted quick enough to a changing football climate. The club needs a serious look at themselves. The club needs to find a plan to keep up with the times & keep on being successful.
Of course he needed to save face. Even if he is possibly the greatest manager of all time, he has, as is human to do so, made mistakes. Picking Moyes, and it's not really an assumption, as his successor was one monumental one. He's been backtracking and trying to make it seem as reasonable a decision ever since Moyes failed. I love the man, and we are all in his gratitude always, but noone is averse from making cock ups.
I have said nothing in relation to the last line. Obviously SAF (and Sir Matt before him) are the reason for this huge sporting empire.
You're not supposed to put so much logic behind your statement!!!! It gets people thinking too much. LVG spent the money because it was there, just like it was for Moyes. Dithering Dave, remember the name because it rang so true. And Rojo was a swap for Evans per say. Valdes and now Romero for Lindergaard.
Some people just have no perspective on these things and take everything in a vacuum. When you don't gradually invest and dump year after year, you're forced into massive change at once. This is what happens, and this was after Year Moyes. It was a monumental cock up the fact that the Club thought it could replace the god damn Sun, the center of our universe (SAF) with Dithering Dave. The moment Moyes disbanded the backroom staff with perennial nobody losers, United were fecked.
This is correct.
At such a tumultuous time, Gill should've stayed on. With the appointment of Moyes, it was rather obvious there was a need for a steadying force to nurture & guide him, not force feed him & Woody to the wolves. The combination of the 2 gave the impression of no one at the wheel, and led to the disastrous transfer window, as no one could trust the current leadership, while competing clubs probably fed the perception.
Woody seems to be a great person in leading the business of Manchester United, but totally the wrong person in directing the football side of things. When SAF stepped down, it was the perfect time to create the position of football director or similar post. Maybe SAF or Gill should've helped create the position knowing he was stepping down, but the moment was lost. As it is, Woody seems to be trying to be the British Flo Perez, but failing to actually sign Galacticos in their prime (excepting ADM), and seems more & more out of his depth when it comes to transfers & developing the football side of things. It really is high time the Old Trafford hierarchy move into the new way of running a football business and get a director that sets out the philosophy & long term trajectory. In this, I am very envious of City & Southampton, TBH.
Monumental cock up. Even in his last season SAF tried to sign Hazard and then Lucas so he knew we badly needed pace in the side, we ended up with RVP who was awesome but not what the squad needed.
Lot's of utter tripe in that list. Cleverly/Anderson/40 year old Giggs as our CM's along with Carrick. Rafael was always average RB at best despite the love in some fans had for his charging around and looking angry, the directions all of the above careers have gone shows SAF was getting blood from a stone with that lot.
Moyes just made what was an already difficult job impossible but completely fecking up the transfer window paying huge fee's for 2 players we don't need and should now be actively trying to get rid of in Mata/Fellaini. Then he sticks an obviously declining Rooney on a new 300k week deal because he can't be seen to lose face.
I think the majority of transfer work by LVG has been good although I strongly disagree with selling Di Maria/Hernandez. I have zero sympathy for him as he's staked his reputation on Rooney whereas any new coach will hopefully bin him immediately along with Mata/Fellaini.
It's actually the main reason I want Mourinho as United manager, we can go back to making common sense signings in positions we need and stop all this square pegs in round holes.
Lot's of utter tripe in that list. Cleverly/Anderson/40 year old Giggs as our CM's along with Carrick. Rafael was always average RB at best despite the love in some fans had for his charging around and looking angry, the directions all of the above careers have gone shows SAF was getting blood from a stone with that lot.
Moyes just made what was an already difficult job impossible but completely fecking up the transfer window paying huge fee's for 2 players we don't need and should now be actively trying to get rid of in Mata/Fellaini. Then he sticks an obviously declining Rooney on a new 300k week deal because he can't be seen to lose face.
I think the majority of transfer work by LVG has been good although I strongly disagree with selling Di Maria/Hernandez. I have zero sympathy for him as he's staked his reputation on Rooney whereas any new coach will hopefully bin him immediately along with Mata/Fellaini.
It's actually the main reason I want Mourinho as United manager, we can go back to making common sense signings in positions we need and stop all this square pegs in round holes.
He left a very good and working broadsword, too bad his successor is only good with a rapier and treated it as one
It was neither delusional or a cock-up. The new manager should have identified the weakness (midfield) in the team and just added to that, instead we had Moyes questioning the whole squad and losing the support of his players. LvG came in and he completely fecked the squad after a few training sessions in pre-season.
The players I highlighted were either pretty old and over their top (Evra in hinsight should have been kept) or pretty shit (considering they were never much good for us and are pretty shit for the clubs they play at now).
RVP, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giigs, Evra: well over 30 and nearing retirement, would all have need to be replaced in the coming years
Evans, Fabio, Anderson, Cleverley, Zaha been proven to be pretty shit
Leaving us with Rooney whom almost everybody is complaining about that we didn't sell him (and rightly so)
Welbeck, Hernandez, Kagawa, Carrick, Smalling, Jones, DDG and Rafael as the core of the team that SAF left that could be build on for the future.
-Welbeck is not fantastic at Arsenal for the seem reason he has never been fanatstic for us
-Rafael and Jones both seem like broken players
Only players I would describe as good enough or decent are Carrick, Hernandez, Smalling, Kagawa and DDG, the only players imo that SAF left that would have a place in our current team. You can hardly call that an entire squad and apart from DDG none of those players are fantastic either.
So in short no I don't agree that SAF left a pretty decent squad for his successor. He left a squad that required great maintenance, alot of deadwood, alot of older players who needed to be replaced and bar DDG not really any worldbeating players. Add to that SAF's choice of replacement was specifically Moyes, who had no experience at the highest level, facing such a rebuilding job next to all the other stuff the job encompasses, we were doomed from the start imo.