But surely you must have read the memo that we hired 78 scouts but their travelling budget was revoked, so they spend all their time scouring for Youtube videos on Redcafe? The customer is always right, after all
Sean Longstaff
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But surely you must have read the memo that we hired 78 scouts but their travelling budget was revoked, so they spend all their time scouring for Youtube videos on Redcafe? The customer is always right, after all
Paranoid revisionism? I can’t remember anyone thinking along those lines at the time, and all the info I’ve ever read made it fairly plain that Ferguson decided to get rid of Beckham, who was gutted. Most people I believe talked about how it was a crazy economical deal by RM by the way, but Perez defended it with the ‘shirt sales’ bluff.
Saying Van Nistlerooys ego fallout with goldenboy Ronaldo was ‘orchestrated to get out of the club cheaply’ also will rank high among conspiracy theories I feel.
It's a shame he was injured. He really was a revelation at Newcastle; he came in and quietly steadied the ship. His positional awareness is great in a 442. He has an eye for a pass, and reduces passing lanes for the opposition.
I think Solkjaer wants him because he has good anticipation and closes down lightening fast.
I'm not sure whether that was entirely his own doing though; for example he was good in the Man City game, and closed down Fernandino pretty well - Longstaff makes his move as the pass is played to key opposition players, so the player has only a few seconds to react when the ball reaches them. That seems like a Benitez tactic to me.
I think Solkjaer wants him because he has good anticipation and closes down lightening fast.
I'm not sure whether that was entirely his own doing though; for example he was good in the Man City game, and closed down Fernandino pretty well - Longstaff makes his move as the pass is played to key opposition players, so the player has only a few seconds to react when the ball reaches them. That seems like a Benitez tactic to me.
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So that's why we've had so many experts in these parts of late.But surely you must have read the memo that we hired 78 scouts but their travelling budget was revoked, so they spend all their time scouring for Youtube videos on Redcafe? The customer is always right, after all
Would he work as a DM
Looking at him on whoscored at the moment and his passing stats are very lacklustre considering the praise he receives for that part of his game. He has a worse passing accuracy than any of our midfielders last season and it's not because he's playing amazingly difficult passes. Pogba, Matic and Fred all play more long passes than him and Pogba, Fred and Periera all play a higher rate of key passes. Of our current collection of midfielders he's a better passer than McTominay and that's about it.
Defensively he is a mixed bag. Wins the ball a good amount by tackling and an okay amount by interceptions. Gets dribbled past more than any of our current midfielders but on the other hand he concedes the fewest fouls. None of our current midfielders have impressive defensive stats tbh. Fred is our best and he makes more tackles and more interceptions than Longstaff but is only a bit better at not being dribbled past and he concedes the most fouls.
His most impressive stats are his poor touch and dispossession rate. Easily better than our current midfielders in this regard. In fact they are so much better than Fred's that I would say they more than make up for his weaker defensive contribution.
Overall his stats don't impressive me but I wouldn't say they are bad either. His passing is overhyped, his defensive work is okay and he is really good at not messing up and losing his team the ball (except with his inaccurate passing).
Defensively he is a mixed bag. Wins the ball a good amount by tackling and an okay amount by interceptions. Gets dribbled past more than any of our current midfielders but on the other hand he concedes the fewest fouls. None of our current midfielders have impressive defensive stats tbh. Fred is our best and he makes more tackles and more interceptions than Longstaff but is only a bit better at not being dribbled past and he concedes the most fouls.
His most impressive stats are his poor touch and dispossession rate. Easily better than our current midfielders in this regard. In fact they are so much better than Fred's that I would say they more than make up for his weaker defensive contribution.
Overall his stats don't impressive me but I wouldn't say they are bad either. His passing is overhyped, his defensive work is okay and he is really good at not messing up and losing his team the ball (except with his inaccurate passing).
I stopped reading at that point.
Every time I read a post like this it makes me think of the scenes from Moneyball with the confused old men who can't understand why you would look at evidence of a player's contribution
Still remember the cafe mood when we signed Carrick for 16m .
Not saying he is next carrick but just tells how we feel means feck all.
Hehe I remember that. It was a quality signing at the time and he showed everyone who had doubts they were wrong.
Stats is dangerous if you use it wrong or do not understand the context.
If you look at passes it is often usefull to compare to team average. While Man Utd have a completion average of 82 %, NUFC is at 72 %. Longstaff is at 80,9 %, far above his team average.
Furthermore, he only played 9 games. In these 9 games he played against Wolves (A), Spurs (A), Liverpool (A), Chelsea (A) and City (H). It is safe to assume he and his team mates has a lower completion rate against these teams. Nevermind the fact that he had little match fitness, were new to this level and is a young player.
I’m not saying his passing is at Carricks level or anything, but his stats at this moment give very little information.
Any more off topic posts will result in thread bans. Have asked you guys to cut it our once already.
Not at and perhaps I was being a little rude, I'll blame it on the heat. I love stats but they should only be used to accompany what you see with your eye's and to put the stats into some form of context which you can't do unless you have seen a number of whole games. Also like looking at YouTube clips, which is all fine, you can get a feel for technical abilities and physical abilities but not the players mental strength, consistency etc.Every time I read a post like this it makes me think of the scenes from Moneyball with the confused old men who can't understand why you would look at evidence of a player's contribution
I suppose you are asking how he would fit in our system?
With what little evidence we have, it is hard for me to say. He seems okay as a holding midfielder.
Again, we don't know how much is actually him on the pitch, working teams out and restricting the likes of Silva finding space behind him.
I genuinely think the manager should take credit here; even if Newcastle were subsequently poorer without him in their lineup.
So I am impressed by him, yes, but there's not enough evidence to know how well he would work with our patterns of play.
They’re completely different players.
The main similarity is being pale and blonde
This forum is an absolute hoot right now
Longstaff and Fernandes.
Woodward confident of doing both deals next week.
Woodward confident of doing both deals next week.
Already preparing myself to defend him
link?
Correct. The main thing is he would bring some of what we lost from Ander defensively in midfield. People complained about what Ander did on the ball, but he found our 2nd most forward passes after Pogba from midfield and more than a lot of the PSG midfielders he'll be up against there.
Longstaff's passing hasnt been impressive from his outings for Newcastle.
He's 21 and would be a ball winner but he'd have to do a lot better than he has done so far for Newcastle to make it at United so I'd have reservations about him being more than a hold over until we find the genuine article.
Indulge me. Only difference I can tell is that Longstaff has a slightly better passing range. They are both 21/22-year-old CMs whose greatest trait is work ethic.They’re completely different players.
The main similarity is being pale and blonde
Looking at stats without taking into consideration which team he plays for and played against etc....
Great start.
How many times have you seen Longstaff play?
Ben Guest, Football Faithful.
He plays for Newcastle. Jesus this place is mad sometimes.
Wonder how many millions we would save if we could do all our scouting looking at Whoscored stats and not having to pay scouts to travel the world..
Looking at our scouting over the last few years, we might already be doing that.. Woody knows how to make $$.
Looking at our scouting over the last few years, we might already be doing that.. Woody knows how to make $$.
There are loads of players who played better for their clubs than ours playing for United last season. We had really crappy stats due to about 2/3 of our season being absolutely dire.For example Fabian Schar would have been almost joint best with Pogba for us last season based on how he performed for Newcastle statistically. Rondon would have been our 3rd best.
Only our signings were rarely players with impressive stats. And we know for a fact we have the largest scouting team in the league.
So in actual fact we did it the way thats being suggested here, scouting and not going by stats and we've done terrible in the transfer market when it comes to value.
I simply don't believe this guy is that good... we need world-class midfielders if we are to challenge for anything this coming season
His stats give us the details for the games he has played so far. If people in this thread are going to insist (without any evidence) that what he has shown so far makes him a great passer and the next Carrick (which a lot of people are) then it's perfectly reasonable to show actual information that shows they are wrong.
But they saw a couple of nice passes in a 4 minute youtube video! They scouted him
Right, because playing for United and Newcastle is the same thing.
For example Fabian Schar would have been almost joint best with Pogba for us last season based on how he performed for Newcastle statistically. Rondon would have been our 3rd best.
Not sure which stats you're talking about as he had 4 goals and 1 assist.
I can't say i've seen much of him other than you tube videos. Our scouts must have seen something.
A 'defensive midfielder' is a difficult position to judge by stats. Carrick would never have looked a great player based on stats, they can't measure good positioning or composure on the ball. I thought Schneiderlin was going to be a good signing for us, he stood out on things like 'tackling' stats (most in the league) before he joined us but didn't have the quality elsewhere in his game.
Stats show Longstaff has stood out in pressing which might be something we're interested in:
A 'defensive midfielder' is a difficult position to judge by stats. Carrick would never have looked a great player based on stats, they can't measure good positioning or composure on the ball. I thought Schneiderlin was going to be a good signing for us, he stood out on things like 'tackling' stats (most in the league) before he joined us but didn't have the quality elsewhere in his game.
Stats show Longstaff has stood out in pressing which might be something we're interested in:
Let me know what world class midfielders are out there for United to go and buy without spending insanity level transfer fees and wages to get, and that want to come here right now. We tried the superstar thing, it hasn’t really worked. I am fine with the new approach.
You think I am being unfair because I compared him to current United players? I did that because those are the players almost everyone on this forum would know and would understand what I meant when I said he was a worse or better than them at certain things. However if you want me to compare him to players at other weak teams I can do that instead.
Same metrics as before but comparing Longstaff with 30 year old Dale Stephens at Brighton. Stephens is a very average, journeyman midfielder who has spent most of his career in the lower leagues:
Stephens was the better passer. More accurate overall and he played more long range passes while both have the same low key pass rate.
Stephens was comfortably the better defensive player. More tackles, more interceptions, dribbled past less. Longstaff did concede fewer fouls though.
Longstaff beat Stephens in rate of bad touches while Stephens beat Longstaff in rate of getting tackled. So the one area that I thought was clearly an advantage to Longstaff when compared to current United players is a tie here.
Overall Dale Stephens was a lot better than Longstaff last season. Please remember that Brighton were a worse team than Newcastle last season and only just escaped relegation so if you thought I was being unfair on Longstaff because of his team before then I gave him an advantage this time.
Im not the one comparing him to carrick just because he is tall and white, am I? Its not everyday we have to compare transfer targets to team legends just to make the transfer more acceptable.Alright lad, take a Xanax or something
I don't need that many videos to see how good his first touch is or his passing tendencies. My only hope is that another poster brought up benitez was very counter attacking so might have instructed him to play long. Still his first touch doesn't look up to par and its a very important aspect for his position. Hoping more editors post longer videos so we can check out other aspects like his balance and tackling. Personally Im being extra picky with this transfer because DM is very important for the way the best teams currently play and if this guy isn't up to par thats another season of low quality thorugh the middle.
All great players look great when you look at their stats and Carrick was no exception. If you look at a season when he was at his peak like 11/12 then compared to our current midfielders he would have been:
1. Our best passer. By far the most accurate while playing the highest number of long passes and making a decent number of key passes.
2. Our best defensive player. Making the most tackles and the most interceptions and getting dribbled past less than our current DMs and conceding the fewest fouls at the same time.
3. Our safest player with fewer poor touches than all our current midfielders and getting tackled less than all our current midfielders.
Peak Carrick ruled and the stats show it.
I see your point and I agree that using stat brings good information to the discussion.
But when you use statistics it is (often) useful to put it into a context. The context you put it into, comparing his numbers to Man Utd-players, dont make much sense in my opinion. I’m certain that both Herrera, Matic and Pogbas completion rate would be a lot worse in NUFC.
Furthermore, you use the numbers as proof that his passing is not good. Fact is, his completion rate is 8 % better than the average of his team mates. I would argue that, isolated, sounds good. Considering the teams he has faced in the few matches he played, it is probably even better. Add that he is a rookie in the PL with limited game time, I might even put it as impressive and a sign that his passing ability is a strength and an area that has real potential (which is probably what people see in the way he passes; potential).
And now I just looked at completion rate. The same rationale will apply to key passes etc.
In my opinion, the numbers dont show that people are wrong. Probably not that they are correct either, because it is based on limited game time.
This has always been a cesspool of experts. I myself is very expertly.
When did I suggest I know everything about this player other than his passing and first touch?
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