Scotty Parker anyone?

rcoobc said:
The current midfield was built to get the best out of Ronaldo, they don't get forward as often because Ronaldo was so poor at tracking back. 2 years after he left, we still have the same midfield, perhaps SAF believes that Nani, Young, Valencia, Hernandez, Rooney and Welbeck are going to take over that role. We have a midfield built to get the ball to better players who can score goals, once our midfield was the ones that scored.

The keane style player is nearly dead against many teams :(
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I know exactly why this midfield was built, and it is for that very reason, why it has struggled so badly since that scenario changed.

Well the last bit sums up my whole point really mate, at the start of the season we had a midfield that got the ball to better players to score goals, have at look at the stats from the games that had clev and Ando in the middle, and then look at the games since.

We had no defensive players in midfield with that pairing, yet although we were open, we still scored goals and were devastating on the counter. Since we have had to revert back to more familiar pairings, Rooney's form, Anderson's form, Young's form and Nani's form all started to dip. then the goals seemed to dry up and despite having more defensive midfielders in the team, we were even worse in defensively than before.

So to sum up the only conclusion i can draw from that is that the midfielders coming back in who did not start the first few games, did not offer as much going forward and did not mange to protect the defence any either. So i ask you, at least you seem willing to offer more than sarcasm, what do the current midfielders bring to the table that Parker would not, especially defensively?
 
JayWalker said:
What are you on about?

Fletcher was extremely consistent for 2-3 seasons and ergo, effective. He has limitations like most midfielders in the world, so what? He's still better than what Parker offers. His passing for one, is better and more intelligent. He contributes defensively, yes, that is true, if you remember his games before his injury. He certainly doesn't exceed in any one area of the pitch/dominates one completely but offers quite a lot in almost each of them and as a member of our squad, he certainly offers way more than Parker does. Our midfield woes have nothing to do with Parker or Fletcher. So give it a rest.

Riddle me this though, how many times have we won against Liverpool in the past 3 seasons without Fletcher? There lies a reason within the answer to that question.
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So what are our woes then? Becasue i thought it was inconsistent midfielders who lacked quality.

All those midfield threads i have been reading about how weak our midfield is seem to be irrelevant now, now apparently Fletcher is great, Carrick is great and the fact Clev and Ando inspired the whole team to prodcue some of the best football for years, seems to have slipped the memory of most.

Think of it, we needed a different midfield, we used a different pairing, we got better football, the pairing breaks up through injury, we bring back the old guard and it all goes down hill from there.

Something must have happened if only i could put my finger on it....... I know maybe the players who came in were not offering as much as those who were in before, could it be that they were not as consistent or limited in their contributions somehow? It just might be.............
 
Getting confused how this thread went up by two pages...

To sum things up... Its like
1. Our current MF crop has been poor due to Fletcher/Carrick/Ando being off form making Parker looking quite good against a Spanish MF today who lacked the final edge...

So Parker, 31, is he good enough for United ?
With our current MF's form... Maybe... In the long run ??? Sorry, Spurs is his best level.

Parker: Decent player, has nice one touches and keeps the ball well, is quite tidy and his work rate is exceptional...

But get over him, he's 31 and isn't going to keep on going like Giggsy as he's main attribute is work rate... His passing's no better than Fletchers and Carricks long balls are much better...

So let's hope our MF's can regain their peak form so we'll forget about Parker.
 
apotheosis said:
I know exactly why this midfield was built, and it is for that very reason, why it has struggled so badly since that scenario changed.

Well the last bit sums up my whole point really mate, at the start of the season we had a midfield that got the ball to better players to score goals, have at look at the stats from the games that had clev and Ando in the middle, and then look at the games since.

We had no defensive players in midfield with that pairing, yet although we were open, we still scored goals and were devastating on the counter. Since we have had to revert back to more familiar pairings, Rooney's form, Anderson's form, Young's form and Nani's form all started to dip. then the goals seemed to dry up and despite having more defensive midfielders in the team, we were even worse in defensively than before.

So to sum up the only conclusion i can draw from that is that the midfielders coming back in who did not start the first few games, did not offer as much going forward and did not mange to protect the defence any either. So i ask you, at least you seem willing to offer more than sarcasm, what do the current midfielders bring to the table that Parker would not, especially defensively?
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There was no sarcasm in what I said. We are in transition amd patience is needed. It could be that Nani, Young, Rooney and Hernandez form the most devestating attack seen for a long time, or that we need to buy to get better. It could be that Carrick and Cleverley form an epic partnership, creator and distributor working in tandum, or that we need to buy a modric.

Patience is needed not Scott Parker.
 
apotheosis said:
I don't need a lie down mate, what i need is for people to explain themselves and tell me what they are seeing that i am not. I am watching Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson regularly playing poorly both individually and collectively over the last couple of seasons.
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During which years we have consistently won the toughest league in Europe and reached the European Champions League final for fun :wenger: :wenger:
 
apotheosis said:
So what are our woes then? Becasue i thought it was inconsistent midfielders who lacked quality.

All those midfield threads i have been reading about how weak our midfield is seem to be irrelevant now, now apparently Fletcher is great, Carrick is great and the fact Clev and Ando inspired the whole team to prodcue some of the best football for years, seems to have slipped the memory of most.

Think of it, we needed a different midfield, we used a different pairing, we got better football, the pairing breaks up through injury, we bring back the old guard and it all goes down hill from there.

Something must have happened if only i could put my finger on it....... I know maybe the players who came in were not offering as much as those who were in before, could it be that they were not as consistent or limited in their contributions somehow? It just might be.............
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Quality in what sense though? Yes, we do lack quality in terms of creativity in the midfield.

Fletcher and Carrick are good midfielders at what they do. But They need to be paired with the right players to be at their best, not to mention both of them have suffered great dips in form, Fletcher due to his illness and Carrick was just plain woefully out of form until last season but he's been his old self this season. Unfortunately, when he's stepped up to the plate, others have gone off the boil, Fletcher, for reasons already stated, Cleverley, injuries and Anderson, inconsistency. It's not all black and white as you state it to be. Several factors have transpired for our midfield to be in the state it is. Mind you, if we had all our midfielders fit and running, we'd be quite good once again in that area. Yes, We could do with some specialists a la A Playmaker and an out and out Defensive mid but christ alive, it's not as bad as to resort to having Parker ahead of what we have already.
Obviously, we have been hoping that Anderson takes the step up and becomes the creative force while the likes of Fletcher and Carrick play around him. Again, not to mention, grooming the likes of Cleverley, Pogba, Tunnicliffe has been the plan for them to slowly and steadily take over all the while along. You can't have 6 experienced, war hardened midfielders and 4 young and upcoming prospects. There has to be a balance. We're still finding that balance and we will. We're coming to an end of a cycle. A little patience will go a long way.

It's gone a little off plan for reasons you already know but we'll be back on track.
 
We have a weakness in midfield but it's quite apparent there's a myth brewing at the caf (maybe United supporters in general) that our midfield is completely abysmal, which is just not true. Yes we have issues in the middle but that's also relative to the standard of team we are. We're definitely not at a point where Scott Parker is at the answer to all our problems. I do understand that those advocating his usefulness for us aren't suggesting that he is, and that he provides consistency and dependability to a greater degree than what we have and to that I would agree. I do feel the likes of Carrick and Anderson haven't got the consistency to go with their ability at the moment, however the phrasing of some of the sentences with regards to our midfield makes it sound as if we've got a bunch of bumbling fools in midfield who take ages to get the ball under control. The likes of Anderson, Fletcher and Carrick are good players. Many teams would love to have them. Sure, collectively you'd have to say they're well below the level of other parts of the team (Defence - Vidic, Rio, Smalling, Evra; Wingers - Young, Nani and Valencia; Strikers - Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck and Berbatov) but they're not rubbish.
 
buckooo1978 said:
would be a good squad player at any team in the Premier League
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Is the correct answer.

United would be much stronger with Scott Parker in the squad. He's a better player than Gibson and Fletcher in my opinion.

But we don't even know if Sir Alex even rates him or if Parker would have fancied a move up north to Manchester after spending all of his career in London.

He's doing a fine job both at Spurs and for England at the moment but speculating on "what he would or wouldn't have brought to United" is a stupid argument. He's at Spurs and they are flying at the moment. But we're still sat in 2nd spot, not the Lillywhites.
 
Plan M said:
But we don't even know if Sir Alex even rates him or if Parker would have fancied a move up north to Manchester after spending all of his career in London..
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:confused:

He played for the mildly northerly Newcastle United, and was crap for them.
 
Deserved his MOTM tonight. Does what he needs to do well. He does hold the ball at times for far too long when its just easier to pass it once he wins it back for England.

Hes not the big name but hes the player needed against the better technical teams. I think a midfield three of him, Cleverley and Wilshere would be rather interesting.
 
:lol: Crazy thread this.

Unreal the amount of hate Parker gets on here. I think he's a very effective player playing right at the top of his game at the moment. I dont think anyones claiming he's world class, just people thinking he could have done a decent job for us for a couple of seasons which i agree with. I think he would have been a shrewd signing until the likes of Pogba and Morrison step up or we identify the right signing to make in that position long term. He wouldnt set the world alight but not everyone we sign has to be a world beater.

I dont think anyone can argue that in the last couple of seasons he's been much more consistant than the likes of Anderson, Carrick or Fletcher. However obviously that ship has sailed and we're never going to sign him now, but think people should atleast give credit where its due as he's a much improved player and is having an exceptional season.
 
As I pointed out before there's no 'hate' for Parker only for the muppets who overrate him. As others have said Lescott was England's best player, Parker was part of a CM that only managed 29% possession.
 
peterstorey said:
As I pointed out before there's no 'hate' for Parker only for the muppets who overrate him. As others have said Lescott was England's best player, Parker was part of a CM that only managed 29% possession.
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I dunno, i get the impression people on here genuinely dislike him for whatever reason. I think the perceived injustice of him winnin player of the year last season seems to have wound up a lot of people on here. A bit bizarre as he seems quite a likeable lad who never seems to have much to say for himself and just gets on with his football. Such divided opinions :lol:
 
my thing is, why is it that when any player puts in a good stint for club or country some people automatically think that player could play well for us? It happens almost every single time. It annoys me because instead of giving credit where credit is due, we just have these arguments about player x fitting into our squad. Most of the time, they don't really get anywhere and fade since the club aren't actually interested in that kind of player. It's like we cant enjoy a good performance anymore without applying SAF's cows in the other field theory. Sure our midfield doesn't look too great now but I'm sure we'll turn it around and show that our midfield is at least decent.

As some suggested, I think at this stage, it's a waiting game.
 
Edmeiste said:
my thing is, why is it that when any player puts in a good stint for club or country some people automatically think that player could play well for us? It happens almost every single time. It annoys me because instead of giving credit where credit is due, we just have these arguments about player x fitting into our squad. Most of the time, they don't really get anywhere and fade since the club aren't actually interested in that kind of player. It's like we cant enjoy a good performance anymore without applying SAF's cows in the other field theory. Sure our midfield doesn't look too great now but I'm sure we'll turn it around and show that our midfield is at least decent.

As some suggested, I think at this stage, it's a waiting game.
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It shouldnt really annoy you. Its only natural that people will speculate. No harm in a bit of muppet. In Parkers case he plays in a position we've struggled to find consistency in for a couple of seasons and was available in the summer for a decent price. Its no surprise that he would spark a bit of debate.
 
A lot of defensiveness, a tad of bitterness, and some random hype being thrown around in here. Parker's too old to be a United player now, so there's no chance of it, but he was fantastic tonight. The thing I agree with Rubber on here is his performance is being dissed without merit. We had a far, far weaker team than Spain, and he did a sterling job throwing him self around in a "no nonsense" way. No it wasn't sexy football, but if it had been Hargreaves people would've beem wetting themselves.

He'll never play for United..He's too old, and he hasn't got that much football wise going on. But to conversely claim he's no where near the United quality is false. He's in the same bracket as Young, Valencia, Carrick & Fletch as an overall player. They're all slightly different players of course, but none of them are better than Parker.

He did exactly what England needed tonight, and the kind of thing United needed against Barca. Stop the hype indeed, but stop the over hate too.
 
He wasn't 'fantastic' by any stretch of the imagination that's exactly the bullshit that gets the 'haters' going. He did a decent grunt job as a 3rd CB (ironic given the Chief's Maka-hate and Scott-love).
 
But that's what was needed. We tried to outplay Barca and got mullered. Parker threw himself about like a grunt. A grunt was what we needed. Don't undersell the grunt. Not everything can be sexy football. He was MOTM for me...If he wasn't, who was then? Fantastic may be an overstatement, but he was vital, and performed very well.
 
Cutch said:
It shouldnt really annoy you. Its only natural that people will speculate. No harm in a bit of muppet. In Parkers case he plays in a position we've struggled to find consistency in for a couple of seasons and was available in the summer for a decent price. Its no surprise that he would spark a bit of debate.
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Understood. It's just that I feel people only speculate when there's an insecurity about the squad whether that's warranted or not. Obviously midfield is a cause for concern so I can understand why people bring him up. I was speaking moreso in general. What's the harm in just sitting back and enjoy watching a player put in a great performance for his team? I'm just of the opinion that our midfield situation will get sorted eventually. Not really sure how but I think something just needs to happen or we play the waiting game as it's been discussed to death. To the point where it's actually got tiresome.
 
Well Lescott and Jagielka were better for England (even though I think neither of them are really international players). You can't be part of a midfield that concedes so much possession and have had a fantabulous game.
 
Considering our furthest forward playing midfielder was a 19 year old center back and the other one was a just fit, off form Frank Lampard, he was basically the only midfield we had...And he spent most of his time covering for Jags, who I didn't think was really that amazing. Spain were toothless. They should've scored at least 2..
 
peterstorey said:
He wasn't 'fantastic' by any stretch of the imagination ... He did a decent grunt job as a 3rd CB ...
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Of course, he plays for Spurs, so what we get from you is the usual dissmissive blindness.

Mind you, what else could we expect .... given that, according to you, the only 3 good players at Spurs are King, Adebayor and Modric.

One day you'll take the blinkers off ...
 
Cutch said:
I dunno, i get the impression people on here genuinely dislike him for whatever reason.
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Not gonna lie, I genuinely hate him.

I hate the fact he's referred to as 'Scotty', I hate his 50s hair style, I hate his little spins, I hate his voice, I hate the fact he got the FWA award, I hate that advert he was on as a kid, I hate that he plays for Spurs, I hate that he plays for England. I hate him.

Sure, it's irrational to hate him but I am genuinely sick of seeing and hearing about him. I'm seeing largely the same player that used to frustrate me in an B&W shirt. He's okay really, probably good infact, but he'd be warming the bench if he was an NUFC player right now so to see him recieve so much unrelenting praise is mind-boggling to me personally.

It's genuinely got the point that I no longer hate Gareth Bale. Hearing about Bale no longer bothers me because I just remember how much worse Parkerhype is. Bale is actually pretty bloody good.
 
Sewelly said:
Not gonna lie, I genuinely hate him.

I hate the fact he's referred to as 'Scotty', I hate his 50s hair style, I hate his little spins, I hate his voice, I hate the fact he got the FWA award, I hate that advert he was on as a kid, I hate that he plays for Spurs, I hate that he plays for England. I hate him.

Sure, it's irrational to hate him but I am genuinely sick of seeing and hearing about him. I'm seeing largely the same player that used to frustrate me in an B&W shirt. He's okay really, probably good infact, but he'd be warming the bench if he was an NUFC player right now so to see him recieve so much unrelenting praise is mind-boggling to me personally.

It's genuinely got the point that I no longer hate Gareth Bale. Hearing about Bale no longer bothers me because I just remember how much worse Parkerhype is. Bale is actually pretty bloody good.
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:lol: Fair enough. At least your honest. I knew it was the 50s hair thing!
 
peterstorey said:
Well Lescott and Jagielka were better for England (even though I think neither of them are really international players). You can't be part of a midfield that concedes so much possession and have had a fantabulous game.
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Just a coincidence that after Parker went off Spain could have easily scored 2 and should have scored one.
 
KM said:
Yes it was a good performance but what this guy is debating that Parker is good enough for our midfield, which he is not and nor do we need him right now.
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The fact is he is good enough for our midfield. We don't have to need him for him to be just that. We are a team that went to Anfield and employed Phil Jones in midfield for crying out loud. To say Scott Parker can't cut if for us after that is a bit rich. Especially after a game in which he faced Barca's midfield and some and didn't look as lost as our allegedly much ''superior players'' have been consistently vs similar opposition.

Frankly, He is player who would suit us down to the ground. We never went for him however for the same reason we never went for a Sneijder. It's simply because we are looking for a different type of player to complete our next midfield. Not because either of them lack the required quality for our team.
 
He was great last night, defensively he is brilliant, he breaks up play so many times and he regularly does the same for Spuds too. Hes just so pointless on the ball though.
Decotron said:
Fletcher is a better player than him, simple as that imo
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Give it a rest and take off your red tinted specs. He clearly isn't.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Turns out he did. Means feck all, mind you. I may not remember that particular game but I don't think it's possible for Spain to dominate midfield any more comprehensively than they did tonight.
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Then go and track down a rerun of that 2-0 defeat. Carrick was present when England were both comprehensively dominated and scored. Like most sides that have faced Spain in recent years.
 
peterstorey said:
He wasn't 'fantastic' by any stretch of the imagination that's exactly the bullshit that gets the 'haters' going. He did a decent grunt job as a 3rd CB (ironic given the Chief's Maka-hate and Scott-love).
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His job was to be a ''4th center back'' (Jones was the third) who occasionally supported Lampard. That was his job and he executed it to a tee. Credit must be given when its due. Even I praised a Makelele when he executed his job well. Even though I have always hated the existence of it in the first place.
 
Using the possession stats to criticize his performance is pathetic to be honest. When the likes of park and fletcher do a specific job well we sing their praises till no end. Spain will hog possession always anyway, stopping them from scoring is a job well done by the defensive minded part of the English side.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Using the possession stats to criticize his performance is pathetic to be honest. When the likes of park and fletcher do a specific job well we sing their praises till no end. Spain will hog possession always anyway, stopping them from scoring is a job well done by the defensive minded part of the English side.
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Spot on. When a player's brief is to make the opposition hogging of possession toothless and he succeeds. He deserves the credit.
 
Mockney said:
A lot of defensiveness, a tad of bitterness, and some random hype being thrown around in here. Parker's too old to be a United player now, so there's no chance of it, but he was fantastic tonight. The thing I agree with Rubber on here is his performance is being dissed without merit. We had a far, far weaker team than Spain, and he did a sterling job throwing him self around in a "no nonsense" way. No it wasn't sexy football, but if it had been Hargreaves people would've beem wetting themselves.

He'll never play for United..He's too old, and he hasn't got that much football wise going on. But to conversely claim he's no where near the United quality is false. He's in the same bracket as Young, Valencia, Carrick & Fletch as an overall player. They're all slightly different players of course, but none of them are better than Parker.

He did exactly what England needed tonight, and the kind of thing United needed against Barca. Stop the hype indeed, but stop the over hate too.
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Do you REALLY think so?

I think he being being punching above his weight for the last season and a half. To be a United player, you need to have hit the levels Parker showed last night (excellent) aged 23 and then consistently from thereon in.

Maybe he's a late bloomer, unfortunately for him, its been too late. Anyway, alls well that ends well, he is at the right club for his sort of ability and has a platform and is surrounded by players at Spurs and has a manager is RedKnapp who will get the best out of him. If a nice story of a footballer, not blessed with natural talent but who has worked his socks off his entire career and now getting some 'technical' payback "Im sure he's been very well paid for years!).

Good him, great display for England last night and overall for past 18 months. But No, I don't want him at United. End of debate.
 
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