Carrick never played against Spain. Stick Messi in that team tonight and England would have been destroyed. Spain owned midfield for 90 minutes. Just lacked cutting edge.
Scotty Parker anyone?
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Carrick never played against Spain. Stick Messi in that team tonight and England would have been destroyed. Spain owned midfield for 90 minutes. Just lacked cutting edge.
Did you watch Fletcher between 2008-2011 until his illness?
Plus his form is on the up again.
How do you think Parker would have done tonight with just Giggs for company?
Yes he has ever played Spain.
BBC SPORT | Football | Internationals | Spain 2-0 England
I also don't see what a Messi has to do with anything. Spain should be able to best England without him. They didn't because Parker did a job like he was tasked to do. Even alongside an in experienced defender rather than a real midfielder to help him protect the defence. Frankly he deserves more credit than people are giving him on here. Some of you are acting like it was his job to impersonate people like Xabi Alonso or whoever.
Why thankfully? You make it sound as though Fletcher has been consistently outstanding for us. I asked you to tell me how his performances have benefitted the team or made us more effective this season?
He has been very poor defensively, and offers very little in attack. We have conceded so many chances to the opposition it is untrue, and it was same last season when he was paired with Scholes early on. Unless you are referring to the games he has played as a spoiler for us about 3 seasons ago. He offers very little and is way too inconsistent imo.
Obviously you have seen something i have not, so i am genuinely interested in what you feel he brings to our team that Parker would not.
Cha, you're discussion football with a moron.
Go have a lie down pal
Yes, his form is on the up? How would you have described Parker's form then if Fletcher's is on the up?
I tell you something, if Fletcher had been laying like Parker has this season, no better just as good as, you would all be bumping the 'Fletcher is world class' thread.
The bias on here is incredible at times, someone plays great for another team, any excuse is looked for to dismiss their contribution. While our midfielders can play way below their best week in week out for the best part of 2 seasons at least and any excuse is looked for to justify it.
If they were all as great as many of you lot make out, then why the feck is everyone crying out for midfielders? The only logical conclusion is because the ones we have are not good enough, because they cannot produce their best anywhere near often enough.
God I can't wait for him to retire. The hype is too much to take.
Did you catch who won the league recently?
Giggs has never played for England. I'm referring to the last time Carrick faced Spain. He and Barry were lost almost all game long.
I don't need a lie down mate, what i need is for people to explain themselves and tell me what they are seeing that i am not. I am watching Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson regularly playing poorly both individually and collectively over the last couple of seasons.
I am watching this persistent inconsistency of our midfield hold back the progress of the team. We have had a new partnership for half a dozen games at the start of the season, and i watched us produce some of the best football we have produced in years.
Almost as soon as that partnership was broke up through injury, the performance levels and results got progressively worse, culminating with that thrashing against City. I have also watched Rooney being played in midfield because our midfielders cannot take a ball under pressure or play a telling pass.
So again what are you watching?
This actually doesn't happen here. The Caf is actually one of the most un-biased forums and it's not as if the United fans here don't rate him as highly as you do. Arsenal fans and Newcastle fan seem to share the opinion, are they biased as well?
Meh tonight. Don't see where the MOTM performance came from. The defense was surprisingly good though.
Also, wrong forum?
Also, wrong forum?
I wouldn't call them biased. Just blinkered or some plain dim. Honestly, you can't have watched Parker play tonight and start dissing his performance like many are doing on here. Like he never did the job required of him.
Wtf does that have to do with Fletcher? You are being to sound deluded, we had the worst away record of any Champions since the 70's!
Away from home is where midfield battles are more fiercely contested, and we lost way too many of those battles last season. Chelsea finished 14 points below their final tally as double winners the year before, and we finished as Champions with less points than we had coming second the year before.
So are you actually going to contest any of points i put to you, or are you going to continue avoiding addressing them?
Somehow I knew you would crack me up when I saw you'd commented. I don't disagree.
They kept doing long drawn out camera shots of him during the match ffs. Implying cameramen wankers. I walked out the room when they zoomed on him for man of the match.
To be fair to him, he had a good game. Some good last ditch challenges and stuff. You'd think he'd spent the entire game pissing all over Spain's midfield though. These type of games were the games he always shined in for us, up against much better teams where what he contributed was valuable. It was when we were playing Wigan at home and he was spinning around in the centre circle that planted the seeds for my hatred.
Yes it was a good performance but what this guy is debating that Parker is good enough for our midfield, which he is not and nor do we need him right now.
You are surely having a laugh, any player who has 4 good games gets catapulted into the world class bracket, and then that run of form is used to justify how great they are for years after.
It doesn't make you any less of a fan to be honest and give players from other teams or other teams credit. Nor for telling the truth about our own players. Our midfield has been inconsistent for at least 3 years, almost nobody can be singled out as having performed anywhere near their best, anywhere near as often as they should have, at a club like Utd.
Yet in many eyes they can do no wrong, and anyone who suggests otherwise gets criticism. Blinkered and deluded imo.
Prove me with examples. Go on.
Oh and before you put Fletcher in there, he actually had a period of two years where he was really good and also despite that thread title, nobody really believed that he was world class. The only person who is coming across as deluded and blinkered is you right now.
ya sure?
Turns out he did. Means feck all, mind you. I may not remember that particular game but I don't think it's possible for Spain to dominate midfield any more comprehensively than they did tonight.
What i am debating is that his consistent contribution and comabtive nature would be of benefit to our team. Mainly because our current midfield are so inconsistent.
I fail to see how inconsistent performances, contributing relatively little either offensively or defensively, is more beneficial to the effectiveness of the team, than someone who does a specific job very consistently. We have exposed our defence on any an occasion this season, can anybody reasonably deny Parker would have done a better job than Fletcher, Carrick or Anderson did?
So everytime someone loses form we should get rid and buy the "flavor of the month"?
We need midfielders. Yes. Does this mean we go out and buy whoever for the heck of it? No. You seem to be muddling two different arguments. We need players who would be "United quality". Parker is not "United quality".
Your point is what exactly....we should should sign Scott Parker because Fletcher cant contest any of these fierce midfield battles? What we need/what we are missing in midfield is alsolutely feck all to do with Fletcher.
I also enjoy the bit where you call me deluded, the irony....
Ok then,how about Jones? or Young? Or Cleverley?
Fletcher had 2 years when he was good, he was poor before that and has not kicked on since. Carrick had one great year, Anderson had a good first season. What since then? What have they produced on a regular basis to make them exempt from criticism? Why are we in the market for midfielders in the first place? Why is a 38yr old ex winger still the best midfielder we have? Oh that's right because the real midfield quality we had retired last season.
I ask anybody to tell me what they have produced this season to make anybody think they would have matched what Parker has produced for Spurs?
Only Cleverley and Anderson, a new pairing not including Carrick or Fletcher by the way, have shown us a tantalising glimpse of the teams capabilities with a different pairing than we have been used to. Unfortunately that pairing was very short lived and tellingly so was the type of football that cam with it.
Parker is not Manchester United quality.
Nobody has yet been touted world class by anyone. You're just being an idiot right now.
Obviously you're bias, deluded, blinkered and wear red-tinted specs.
tbf, Spain played pretty much the team that won the Euros in that game(which was a better overall team than the World Cup one imo), and England at the time were missing about 4/5 of their first teamers(basically the same ones as today and Lampard I think) and well didn't have a good backup from the youth at that point as you could probably guess for Beckham, Carrick, Upson and Crouch being in that pic. 2-0 was flattering.
I'm also pretty sure they played a 2 man midfield also, with Crouch and Heskey up top.
No no need to be ridiculous, but when you have 3 players all not producing regularly over a 2 year period, then that is simply not good enough, and we should not be blindly defending such performances imo.
So what is Utd quality exactly? From my point of view after watching Utd for 30 yrs, this current midfield is not 'Utd quality'. Scholes, Keane, Butt, Wilkins, Beckham, Ince, Robson. That's the standard that i see as Utd Quality, not only great talent but great consistency too.
Is Michael Carrick getting slagged off on here for our defence being exposed this season? Might as well blame Pogba...
Your memory 1 - my memory 0
The current midfield was built to get the best out of Ronaldo, they don't get forward as often because Ronaldo was so poor at tracking back. 2 years after he left, we still have the same midfield, perhaps SAF believes that Nani, Young, Valencia, Hernandez, Rooney and Welbeck are going to take over that role. We have a midfield built to get the ball to better players who can score goals, once our midfield was the ones that scored.
The keane style player is nearly dead against many teams
Haha.
I just think if he was playing for you he'd be getting exactly the same criticisms your current midfielders are getting.
It seems that with Scholes retiring, Carrick's form collapsing over the last 2 years, Fletcher having injuries combined with Parker becoming flavour of the month has made the grass seem greener on the outside. I don't think he'd be any sort of solution in a technical or physical capacity to what you need in central midfield.
I do think it is a deficiency in your team relative to the rest of the squad, but Parker is not good enough to improve what you've got. The guy playing alongside him however...
Nobody has yet been touted world class by anyone. You're just being an idiot right now.
Yes just as i expected, poke fun and make sarcastic comments rather than address any of the points i put to you.
I think i will just have to accept like many of you seem to, that inconsistent performances from our midfielders are still somehow more beneficial to the effectiveness of our team, than the contributions would be of someone who is playing consistently very well for another team.
I must have asked the question half a dozen times to at least 3 people who disagree, yet none have even attempted to tell me why that is actually the case.
So you think Scott Parker belongs in this group of players?
What are you on about?
Fletcher was extremely consistent for 2-3 seasons and ergo, effective. He has limitations like most midfielders in the world, so what? He's still better than what Parker offers. His passing for one, is better and more intelligent. He contributes defensively, yes, that is true, if you remember his games before his injury. He certainly doesn't exceed in any one area of the pitch/dominates one completely but offers quite a lot in almost each of them and as a member of our squad, he certainly offers way more than Parker does. Our midfield woes have nothing to do with Parker or Fletcher. So give it a rest.
Riddle me this though, how many times have we won against Liverpool in the past 3 seasons without Fletcher? There lies a reason within the answer to that question.