Scott McTominay | Transfer discussion not performance discussion

[MadDogg]

It's great to see the club recognising that West Ham are somewhat desperate and are driving up the price. Feels like a welcome change However I hope we don't overplay our hand and hold out for so much they move on to other targets.

I don't get how anyone would believe he rates McTominay! He rarely used him in the second half of the season with Fred being ahead of him. Once we get a decent fee Scott will go.

Fred is clearly ahead at #8. Scott was clearly ahead at #6. Even though Fred is certainly the better player we do have more depth at #8 while for now Scott is the only backup we have for Casemiro. The question is whether ETH sees either Mainoo or Amrabat (considering how strongly we are linked) in that role as being better than Scott, or whether he also sees them more as #8's as well.

 

[bond19821982]

I'm not a scout. I can't believe there isn't another centre back or midfielder anywhere in world football that they could go for.

The only reason they wouldn't have many alternatives is if they're at their limit for foreign players quota and have to go for home-grown only?

It's not about Scouting. They have been failing with bids for Gallagher, JWP and Alvarez. They will complete Alvarez soon

They want a PL proven player to replace Rice. They aren't willing to take a risk by going outside. Season starts in 3 days.

 

[bond19821982]

We don't need as experienced a CB as Maguire. We have a great RCB who is aging and injury prone in Varane, signing a guy in his early 20s to back him up this year and replace him in the long term is very sensible.

And for DM, I do genuinely think a boring DM who reads danger positionally better than McTominay and can pass the ball would be an upgrade. As a #8 on the counter, McTominay will probably do well for West Ham, but 30M should comfortably buy an upgrade as a #6.

Talking about hammers mate.

 

[MadDogg]

Agreed, his best attribute is his engine, should tell you everything you need to know. Not sure how anyone can watch Rice and think he's inferior to Scott.

The sad thing is that Scott doesn't actually have that good an 'engine'. He's built up to be this work-horse who is all over the place, but that is really based purely on the odd game here and there. That does show that he's capable of it so maybe he'll show it more often at another club where he feels he needs to take on more responsibility, but in 90% of his games for us his workrate is average at best. Probably below average to be honest.

 

[Eugenius]

The sad thing is that Scott doesn't actually have that good an 'engine'. He's built up to be this work-horse who is all over the place, but that is really based purely on the odd game here and there. That does show that he's capable of it so maybe he'll show it more often at another club where he feels he needs to take on more responsibility, but in 90% of his games for us his workrate is average at best. Probably below average to be honest.

He is literally the fittest player in the team. He runs a 16 minute 5k or something ridiculous.

 

[glasgow 21]

He is literally the fittest player in the team. He runs a 16 minute 5k or something ridiculous.

yeah he runs that fast to hide been an opposition player in midfield to count himself out of receiving a ball from defence.

 

[Siorac]

I'm really worried that McTominay will end up staying. If that 40-45m valuation is true... I can't see even Moyes paying that. No sane person would.

 

[scottser]

I'm really worried that McTominay will end up staying. If that 40-45m valuation is true... I can't see even Moyes paying that. No sane person would.

he won't go for 45m, more like 35-40m. it's the transfer fandango, you just have to let them at it.

 

[Chief123]

It’s mental to think that McTominay will be our most expensive sale ever from our academy. The previous highest was Beckham for £25m.

In fact what’s even crazier is Beckham is our 4th most expensive sale ever from all our transfers at only £25m.

 

[Chief123]

He is literally the fittest player in the team. He runs a 16 minute 5k or something ridiculous.

His fitness isn’t the issue. It’s his agility and mobility. Players can glide past him and his inability to adjust his feet and direction quickly means he more often than not has to just wipe the man out before they skip past him. Being so tall it’s not an easy task playing defensive midfield when reactive change of directions are required constantly.

 

[Superunknown]

It’s mental to think that McTominay will be our most expensive sale ever from our academy. The previous highest was Beckham for £25m.

In fact what’s even crazier is Beckham is our 4th most expensive sale ever from all our transfers at only £25m.

Maybe that's an area where we need to improve. It would be great if we could enhance our reputation further with not only being a great football club, but having an academy that develops young talent that can go on to be successful elsewhere. I've had the feeling over the last decade that the academy hasn't taken as much precedence as it could or should have, which has then inevitably led to us spending obscene amounts of money in the transfer market.

 

[Rozay]

Not sure I said anywhere he was great or even good with the ball at his feet?

I didn’t say you said that. But you DID say that you’d ‘rather have Scott with the ball at his feet than Rice’. That is a perfectly acceptable juncture for me to point out that Scott is awful with the ball, certainly when passing it.

This man was booked and should have been sent off, for somehow managing to almost break Caicedo’s leg having himself received the ball in space just one touch before on the opening day of last season.

 

[Rozay]

It’s mental to think that McTominay will be our most expensive sale ever from our academy. The previous highest was Beckham for £25m.

In fact what’s even crazier is Beckham is our 4th most expensive sale ever from all our transfers at only £25m.

Well we could sell Rashford for 150m if we are keen to break sale records. Or we could have sold Greenwood or Garnacho for 100m.

The idea is not to sell academy players who turn out to have high values. We sell the ones rated 25m and under.

 

[MadDogg]

He is literally the fittest player in the team. He runs a 16 minute 5k or something ridiculous.

Good for him. He rarely shows it on the field though. Not 'never', but it doesn't happen very often. Whether it's a physical limitation or (more likely) a mental limitation where he doesn't know when and where to actually do it, the end result for us has been the same.

 

[greater wall]

Well we could sell Rashford for 150m if we are keen to break sale records. Or we could have sold Greenwood or Garnacho for 100m.

The idea is not to sell academy players who turn out to have high values. We sell the ones rated 25m and under.

Beckham was undervalued by the club. We are now in a world where Rice is worth 105m. 45m is good value for a PL player coming to his peak years.

 

[croadyman]

We could well price him out of a move

 

[Roboc7]

Good for him. He rarely shows it on the field though. Not 'never', but it doesn't happen very often. Whether it's a physical limitation or (more likely) a mental limitation where he doesn't know when and where to actually do it, the end result for us has been the same.

I think that’s where he has really let himself down, the ball watching, lazily jogging back etc. He should be running himself into the ground every game but he just doesn’t do it. He can’t do much about the fact he is so limited in many other areas but work rate is something he could have done a lot about.

 

[Adisa]

It’s mental to think that McTominay will be our most expensive sale ever from our academy. The previous highest was Beckham for £25m.

In fact what’s even crazier is Beckham is our 4th most expensive sale ever from all our transfers at only £25m.

Disgrace. But also shows we aren’t a selling club

 

[Superunknown]

Well we could sell Rashford for 150m if we are keen to break sale records. Or we could have sold Greenwood or Garnacho for 100m.

The idea is not to sell academy players who turn out to have high values. We sell the ones rated 25m and under.

I think it matters more whether they are what we need at that present moment in time or if they're surplus to requirements. We could have a debate about what the 'value' is regarding a player. An example is Lukaku. Not an academy player, but we moved him on fairly quickly for £73million when it became apparent that he wasn't what we needed. I don't think there's necessarily any problems with moving on players for big money if they're not going to be part of our future plans. It's criminal how we let Pogba leave for free twice.

 

[Fortitude]

I think that’s where he has really let himself down, the ball watching, lazily jogging back etc. He should be running himself into the ground every game but he just doesn’t do it. He can’t do much about the fact he is so limited in many other areas but work rate is something he could have done a lot about.

The argument goes that he just doesn’t have his head around positioning and when and where to go and in the formative years where he should have been coached and drilled, we were utterly clueless (leading to numerous players being undercooked articles), so running around essentially aimlessly wouldn’t have reflected well on McTominay as without running to the right places, he’d look even more clueless and tarred with the kind of brush reserved for Robbie Savage and the like.

 

[mav_9me]

It’s mental to think that McTominay will be our most expensive sale ever from our academy. The previous highest was Beckham for £25m.

In fact what’s even crazier is Beckham is our 4th most expensive sale ever from all our transfers at only £25m.

That's both crazy and makes sense at the same time

 

[MadDogg]

I think that’s where he has really let himself down, the ball watching, lazily jogging back etc. He should be running himself into the ground every game but he just doesn’t do it. He can’t do much about the fact he is so limited in many other areas but work rate is something he could have done a lot about.

Yep. The time that Fred had to race back from the other side of the field, past Scott, to win the ball back while Scott just jogged back really did sum it up to me. That lazy jogging back is quite a regular thing whenever the opposition get in behind him (AWB does it as well which also annoys me). For someone who's strength is supposed to be his work rate he simply can't be doing that.

The argument goes that he just doesn’t have his head around positioning and when and where to go and in the formative years where he should have been coached and drilled, we were utterly clueless (leading to numerous players being undercooked articles), so running around essentially aimlessly wouldn’t have reflected well on McTominay as without running to the right places, he’d look even more clueless and tarred with the kind of brush reserved for Robbie Savage and the like.

I do think that is somewhat true, but it doesn't excuse the slow jog back that he's quite bad for. Those are the instances where he shouldn't have any doubt what he should be doing.

 

[croadyman]

Could we see Newcastle firm up interest,would certainly mean we get pretty much our valuation for him and he gets Champions League football

 

[poleglass red]

It's great to see the club recognising that West Ham are somewhat desperate and are driving up the price. Feels like a welcome change However I hope we don't overplay our hand and hold out for so much they move on to other targets.


Fred is clearly ahead at #8. Scott was clearly ahead at #6. Even though Fred is certainly the better player we do have more depth at #8 while for now Scott is the only backup we have for Casemiro. The question is whether ETH sees either Mainoo or Amrabat (considering how strongly we are linked) in that role as being better than Scott, or whether he also sees them more as #8's as well.

I think that's the issue with McT, coaches see his height, they know he isn't afraid to get stuck in when needed and they think he's a number 6. He isn't and won't ever be, he is more useful played further up the pitch. His passing will never be top notch, but he can drive with the ball, he does have a good shot on him as well. At a club like West Ham, he'll do well if played higher up, he'll chip in with goals, but I think if Moyes is buying him to play as a number 6 then it won't be as effective. His positioning isn't great, even though he's fit, he doesn't track runners and he doesn't show for the ball in the defensive third. Thye are all attributes you need to be a number 6.

 

[Jeffthered]

I think that’s where he has really let himself down, the ball watching, lazily jogging back etc. He should be running himself into the ground every game but he just doesn’t do it. He can’t do much about the fact he is so limited in many other areas but work rate is something he could have done a lot about.

This for me. I like SMT, but SMT could have really driven this United team forward, we all realise that the squad, the club, was in a state of transition, we still are, and we needed young, hungry players who represent the heart of the club to help define our next stage. Rashford has done this, and there was nothing stopping SMT doing the same, nothing. Fred should never play before him, regardless of whether Fred offers a left-foot option. SMT should be telling every coach that enters United that he should be the first name on the sheet, and show it. For Scotland, he's a match-winner!

But he rarely has... maybe he doesn't have this character, personality.. and if that's the case, that is a shame, but we can't keep waiting for him to find his feet. He has youth, experience, the whole club behind him, he can score a few goals, which is so important... but add some real power and authority to your game. Man United centre midfielders need a lot of character, whether players like Scholes, or the driving forces like Ince, Keane, etc.. you can't just stroll around, week in, week out. Sorry lad. Step up or you gotta' go.

 

[Strelok]

It’s mental to think that McTominay will be our most expensive sale ever from our academy. The previous highest was Beckham for £25m.

In fact what’s even crazier is Beckham is our 4th most expensive sale ever from all our transfers at only £25m.

Tbf 25m back then is the equivalence of 80m now. And we're not a selling club. Top clubs don't sell their best HG players until they don't need them anymore or the players don't want to stay anymore. I'd bet Madrid or Barca would have worse record than us. Nothing mental here imo.

 

[Fortitude]

Yep. The time that Fred had to race back from the other side of the field, past Scott, to win the ball back while Scott just jogged back really did sum it up to me. That lazy jogging back is quite a regular thing whenever the opposition get in behind him (AWB does it as well which also annoys me). For someone who's strength is supposed to be his work rate he simply can't be doing that.


I do think that is somewhat true, but it doesn't excuse the slow jog back that he's quite bad for. Those are the instances where he shouldn't have any doubt what he should be doing.

I don’t wish to speak for him, but I do believe you’re either switched on to that defensive work or you’re not, and if you’re not, you need thousands of hours of drilling and conditioning to get with it or be an extremely intelligent player who simply gets it.

The one time we’ve seen McTominay at his athletic peak was backing Fred as his sweeper-upper in a very simple, but dogged role that had all the play in front of him and reduced his own role to a very basic, non-thinking one… once expanded and more CM-centric, that McTominay disappeared and hesitancy and his infamous delays and ball-watching entered the fray.

To me, it’s partially him not being a rounded player on the tracking end, but also him not receiving the hands on coaching and training that would have cut that stuff down to a bare minimum. Don’t know if you recall Keane chewing Fletcher to bits for his mistakes, but that level of mentorship is something McTominay never received and he’s had to figure a lot more things out for himself, which shouldn’t be the way at big clubs where good/great CM’s constantly play a hand in guiding the generation after them.

 

[Rozay]

This for me. I like SMT, but SMT could have really driven this United team forward, we all realise that the squad, the club, was in a state of transition, we still are, and we needed young, hungry players who represent the heart of the club to help define our next stage. Rashford has done this, and there was nothing stopping SMT doing the same, nothing. Fred should never play before him, regardless of whether Fred offers a left-foot option. SMT should be telling every coach that enters United that he should be the first name on the sheet, and show it. For Scotland, he's a match-winner!

But he rarely has... maybe he doesn't have this character, personality.. and if that's the case, that is a shame, but we can't keep waiting for him to find his feet. He has youth, experience, the whole club behind him, he can score a few goals, which is so important... but add some real power and authority to your game. Man United centre midfielders need a lot of character, whether players like Scholes, or the driving forces like Ince, Keane, etc.. you can't just stroll around, week in, week out. Sorry lad. Step up or you gotta' go.

Footballing ability?

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Very good news

 

[crossy1686]

I'm really worried that McTominay will end up staying. If that 40-45m valuation is true... I can't see even Moyes paying that. No sane person would.

They're being quoted that by Southampton for JWP so they're going to pay someone that amount.

 

[Roboc7]

The argument goes that he just doesn’t have his head around positioning and when and where to go and in the formative years where he should have been coached and drilled, we were utterly clueless (leading to numerous players being undercooked articles), so running around essentially aimlessly wouldn’t have reflected well on McTominay as without running to the right places, he’d look even more clueless and tarred with the kind of brush reserved for Robbie Savage and the like.

But he was and is always going to be clueless about positioning, reading of the game etc. He is a ball watcher who doesn’t even know how to get into space when we have the ball let alone when opposition have it.

Having a really high work rate would help make up for that but it just hasn’t happened which is combination of player and managements fault.

 

[edgecutter]

Very good news

40 million for McTominay would be unreal. I think he's bang average.

 

[Devil_forever]

40 million for McTominay would be unreal. I think he's bang average.

We just paid £72m for a kid who's scored a handful goals. Paid £55m for Mount with a year left on his contract. It's the market rate. Scott is worth £40m in a market like that. He's a much better player than people give him credit for.

Oh and they've got £105m from the Rice deal.

 

[Sarni]

Could we see Newcastle firm up interest,would certainly mean we get pretty much our valuation for him and he gets Champions League football

They already bought Tonali and have Guimaraes. I don't see any need for McTominay.

 

[Cypriot]

We just paid £72m for a kid who's scored a handful goals. Paid £55m for Mount with a year left on his contract. It's the market rate. Scott is worth £40m in a market like that. He's a much better player than people give him credit for.

Oh and they've got £105m from the Rice deal.

"If his name was Scotiano McTominez he'd be worth more etc etc"

Jokes aside, he's a very good player & young too. £40m is about right.

 

[Fortitude]

But he was and is always going to be clueless about positioning, reading of the game etc. He is a ball watcher who doesn’t even know how to get into space when we have the ball let alone when opposition have it.

Having a really high work rate would help make up for that but it just hasn’t happened which is combination of player and managements fault.

He came up as an attacker who was shoehorned into defensive roles because he was tall and athletic, it’s not a surprise he ball watches or is instinctively clueless with regard to what he should instantaneously be doing in the thick of a high octane midfield battle. And a really high work rate without understanding garners a Robbie Savage or whoever else was indefatigable but mostly clueless in central midfield.

 

[croadyman]

"If his name was Scotiano McTominez he'd be worth more etc etc"

Jokes aside, he's a very good player & young too. £40m is about right.

Yeah I would say that's a fair valuation

 

[Stobzilla]

£35mil+5mil for West Ham staying up for Scott is about where I personally am at with it right now. Hopefully Newcastle interest has stayed and they start involving themselves soon and push it up slightly.

 

[croadyman]

£35mil+5mil for West Ham staying up for Scott is about where I personally am at with it right now. Hopefully Newcastle interest has stayed and they start involving themselves soon and push it up slightly.

£30mil+5mil for Maguire too?

 

[edgecutter]

We just paid £72m for a kid who's scored a handful goals. Paid £55m for Mount with a year left on his contract. It's the market rate. Scott is worth £40m in a market like that. He's a much better player than people give him credit for.

Oh and they've got £105m from the Rice deal.

Unless you're seeing something I ain't he's an average player that only averages around 30 touches of the ball in 90 mins.