I forgot that on the caf that 25 years old is over the hill with no more room for growth.
Classic.
Sancho, Grealish, Rice or Calvert-Lewin?
- Thread starter lysglimt
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I forgot that on the caf that 25 years old is over the hill with no more room for growth.
Classic.
The issue with this is that we need less players that fit the United group dynamic and culture of the last ten years. Not more.
Cavani and Bruno probably aren't best mates with the majority of our players. I can't see either of them in the changing room, practicing their celebrations or sharing tips on how to promote their online brands.
Yet they're the best signings we've made in years and Grealish would be another in that mould. A couple of years ago we had no players like that but now we have the two mentioned, plus McTominay and Ole has developed Shaw into one. Sign Grealish and find a centre back and a keeper (Henderson?) and suddenly we have a proper team with leadership and character everywhere.
Looking for players who will fit in with the majority of what we've got is a silly idea. Fellas who will look flash when things are going well but will lose their nerve and disappear when the pressure is on. I'm not saying Sancho is that because I don't know enough about him, but signing him because he might get along better with players like Martial, Maguire, De Gea, Rashford, Pogba and Lingard isn't the answer.
The big problem with Grealish is how much he is worth to Villa. He's a super player but with the things we need to fix in our squad, we can't afford to pay more than 80-100m for him and he's worth much more than that to them.
He's a world class player who loves their club. They could have double that amount in cash and still never properly replace him.
Who said I was only taking age into consideration? I see more potential and world class skills in Sancho compared with Grealish, and it’s also about style of play.
Grealish will never be one of the best players in the world. Sancho has the potential to become winner of Ballon d’Or.
Who is best right now is open for discussion, but it’s pretty broad consensus regarding my last argument; it’s probably not much to discuss.
Grealish is already one of the best players in the Premier League, I think he has every potential Sancho has.
Totally disagree. There’s no such consensus.
Grealish is the stand out player in more or less every game he plays. He is getting better and, as a late bloomer, he’ll likely improve much more especially if he goes to a club where he is surrounded by better players.
Grealish is only 25. Zidane was offered to English clubs at the age of 24 and was considered not good enough. A mistake, for sure, but he was still improving at 30. Anyway, it’s dogshit to suggest Grealish can’t improve. He can and he will, I just hope he does it here.
He perform consistently on a high level, but is not world class.
I’ve watched many of his games and even if he’s good he isn’t in the same league as example Salah, Coutinho, Hazard on their best. If he was that good, RM, City and LFC ++ would’ve been crazy after him. In this regard I think Grealish is overrated.
Maybe it’s only consensus outside a subjective England
I love the thought of all 4 joining us, they’d all start every week. Add a centre back and we win the league I think.
Agree to disagree. I think Grealish performances over the last two seasons have proved him as one of the best players in a much tougher league than the BL.He perform consistently on a high level, but is not world class.
I’ve watched many of his games and even if he’s good he isn’t in the same league as example Salah, Coutinho, Hazard on their best. If he was that good, RM, City and LFC ++ would’ve been crazy after him. In this regard I think Grealish is overrated.
Maybe it’s only consensus outside a subjective England
The argument that RM or City haven't bought him yet doesn't hold much water. By that logic Bruno should've been a flop because we were the only team in for him and others didn't want him.
He perform consistently on a high level, but is not world class.
I’ve watched many of his games and even if he’s good he isn’t in the same league as example Salah, Coutinho, Hazard on their best. If he was that good, RM, City and LFC ++ would’ve been crazy after him. In this regard I think Grealish is overrated.
Maybe it’s only consensus outside a subjective England
I'd be scared as hell if City bough Grealish.
Grealish - KDB - Foden
Is one of the most deadliest potential things I've ever seen. Considering Haaland has a history with City aswell then he would just be the cherry on the top of the cake.
The only thing stopping that is mostly because of Pep not using that tactic, Pep already having Foden and Pep not liking to use a striker that benefits that set up either. If City changed manager then I'd be surprised they wouldn't use that.
Grealish isn’t a late bloomer at all.
It’s just he’s asked to get in more attacking positions now, he has always had unbelievable ball carrying ability and an eye for a pass.
If he wasn’t so loyal to Villa he’d probably be smashing it right now with Kane and son at spurs.
His loyalty has hampered his success I feel but there’s something really endearing about that.
The only minuscule concern I have with him is would he have the same motivation level at a top club which isn’t his boyhood club. I still feel he would.
Rashford, Grealish, Bruno. Get them into a team with a striker like Haaland, then it would be quite something.
Add in Greenwood, Cavani, Diallo and we have something special.
DCL really has only had one high scoring season, that's this season, Martial has been more prolific historically. He's a very expensive risk to me.
Grealish is the one who in my opinion is definitely good enough.
I think Sancho will grow but he's dropped off this season, perhaps wanted the move.
Just don't think Rice is a good enough upgrade.
Grealish is the one who in my opinion is definitely good enough.
I think Sancho will grow but he's dropped off this season, perhaps wanted the move.
Just don't think Rice is a good enough upgrade.
Salah/Coutinho/Hazard never played with Aston Villa. Interestingly Salah made his big rise in the PL at a similar age to Grealish, albeit playing for a better side under a more offensive minded manager.He perform consistently on a high level, but is not world class.
I’ve watched many of his games and even if he’s good he isn’t in the same league as example Salah, Coutinho, Hazard on their best. If he was that good, RM, City and LFC ++ would’ve been crazy after him. In this regard I think Grealish is overrated.
Maybe it’s only consensus outside a subjective England
Sancho is more explosive but there's nothing to suggest his potential is any higher than Grealish. Whats more is Sancho this season looks a step back form Sancho last season, so his development is still coming. Grealish on the other hand looks like the best player on the pitch in almost any game he plays.
Grealish is the one who i think would take us to the next level the most.
As much as i rate Sancho and wanted him here in the summer i wouldn't understand that move now, especially for the money it would take to get him here, it makes no sense, last summer United invested £45m for 2 players for the RW position, why would United even concider investing there again?
Ideal summer would Grealish/Haaland and a beast of a CB.
As much as i rate Sancho and wanted him here in the summer i wouldn't understand that move now, especially for the money it would take to get him here, it makes no sense, last summer United invested £45m for 2 players for the RW position, why would United even concider investing there again?
Ideal summer would Grealish/Haaland and a beast of a CB.
Out of these four I think Sancho.
We can get him a year older and half the price compared to last Summer. Diallo looks an exciting prospect but I'm not sure we can rely on him and Greenwood for the right wing just yet.
I like Rice, but I'm not sure he would justify the fee in terms of being a massive upgrade on Matic/Fred/McT.
Grealish is of course a fantastic talent but I'm not sure where he fits in our team because he seems to play the same position as two of our best players (Bruno & Rashford) - plus I can see him staying at Villa for another season or two. However, maybe competition for the LW position would do Rashford some good - Grealish would definitely be 2nd choice after Sancho.
DCL is looking like a very good centre forward but I think Cavani with Martial/Greenwood as back up is looking not bad at the moment. If Haaland turns us down in 2022, I imagine he'll be considered as an alternative.
We can get him a year older and half the price compared to last Summer. Diallo looks an exciting prospect but I'm not sure we can rely on him and Greenwood for the right wing just yet.
I like Rice, but I'm not sure he would justify the fee in terms of being a massive upgrade on Matic/Fred/McT.
Grealish is of course a fantastic talent but I'm not sure where he fits in our team because he seems to play the same position as two of our best players (Bruno & Rashford) - plus I can see him staying at Villa for another season or two. However, maybe competition for the LW position would do Rashford some good - Grealish would definitely be 2nd choice after Sancho.
DCL is looking like a very good centre forward but I think Cavani with Martial/Greenwood as back up is looking not bad at the moment. If Haaland turns us down in 2022, I imagine he'll be considered as an alternative.
Grealish. DCL would address a greater need in the short term but Grealish is a generational talent - DCL’s potential is probably a top 100 player in the world. Grealish could become top 15-20.
Look at when we signed Rooney - we didn’t need him. We saw a huge talent at a young age and went out and got him and worked out where the pieces fitted later.
Sancho’s form and lack of Premier League experience (not to mention the price tag) is worrying and I had to Google Rice - no thanks.
Look at when we signed Rooney - we didn’t need him. We saw a huge talent at a young age and went out and got him and worked out where the pieces fitted later.
Sancho’s form and lack of Premier League experience (not to mention the price tag) is worrying and I had to Google Rice - no thanks.
I think the Sancho chance is gone. If Diallo shows any glimpse of potential in the first team, Joel Glazer will determine no need, since we have the Ivorian Messi and the French Pele already in the squad. While I write this ‘tongue-in cheek’, it may not be far from the truth. Just remember who we’re dealing with, the chance to show real ambition was this last summer and they failed to properly back Ole.
Grealish would come at the same cost as Sancho, so that’s another one you can strike off the list. Calvert-Lewin similarly would come at an English premium and while he’s been good this season, he’s had serious dips in form.
Rice is an interesting option and probably fits a bigger need. Lampard desperately wanted him at Chelsea but it seems with him leaving that the rents are potentially looking elsewhere.
Grealish would come at the same cost as Sancho, so that’s another one you can strike off the list. Calvert-Lewin similarly would come at an English premium and while he’s been good this season, he’s had serious dips in form.
Rice is an interesting option and probably fits a bigger need. Lampard desperately wanted him at Chelsea but it seems with him leaving that the rents are potentially looking elsewhere.
Grealish absolutely is a late bloomer. He had attitude problems and various disruptive injuries and improved massively over the last couple of years.
Again: Grealish plays on the left or as a #10. Those are our best 2 positions. Sancho plays mostly on the right, where we have pretty much nobody (as a natural), but is also quality on the left and can play as a 10 if needed to rest Bruno. Gives us far more versatility. Sancho will be cheaper than Grealish. Sancho is 5 years younger than Grealish. Sancho doesn't have a history drunk driving away from a party and making a mess right at the beginning of lockdown. Not saying he's Rashford off the pitch, but Grealish is undoubtedly a bit of an idiot off the pitch.
As an individual, Grealish might be better if you are building a team from scratch and want the individual who can do the most on their own. But we need more players like Sancho who will make the right decisions and generally just perform at a high level with the overall team and bring the team up a level, on the right wing. That's the biggest thing. You look at our squad and rank every position in terms of need, I'd have it as:
As an individual, Grealish might be better if you are building a team from scratch and want the individual who can do the most on their own. But we need more players like Sancho who will make the right decisions and generally just perform at a high level with the overall team and bring the team up a level, on the right wing. That's the biggest thing. You look at our squad and rank every position in terms of need, I'd have it as:
- RW
- CB
- DM
- RB depth
- CM
- ST (after Cavani), so not asap
- GK (sort out de gea/Henderson)
- Rb starter
- LB
- LW
- #10
That’s a useful way to look at it. I don’t agree with your priorities though. I’d rank the urgency as:
1 CB
2 CM/6
3 GK
4 RB
5 CF
6 CM/8
the remainder being less urgent.
I don’t even have RW on my list as we have Greenwood rapidly improving in that role and Amad to come in soon.
If we were to buy Grealish, I believe it would be, primarily, to play no. 8, in a similar way to how Paul Gascoigne played it. Sixth priority on my list. But if Pogba goes, then it becomes a much higher priority.
However, Grealish is a special talent of the type you get them if they become available. So the ranked priorities will go out of the window if he’s available. Which he probably isn’t.
I go to a lot of Villa games and he’s always been brilliant. Yes he’s improved his stats now but from the age of 21 he’s been so so exciting to watch. Probably the main reason to go to them.
If he was at a top 6 club from the age of 21 he’d have gotten a similar number of assists/goals as he’s doing now.
Greenwood I love but hes a striker playing on the wing, and he should be rotating with Cavani with a view to replace him in 2022/23. Amad has played less than 60 minutes of professional football, as talented as he is, he's only 18 so signing Sancho wouldn't block him as Sancho could rotate as a 10 or on the left as well. A RW who can start there right away is the biggest improvement a single signing can make for us, by far.
No chance Grealish would play as an 8. You would need an all time great as the holding midfielder behind Grealish and Bruno. Grealish does next to no work from a defensive perspective these days, but is obviously brilliant on the ball but you want him in your attacking third. He's definitely not a #8, and since he's been in the premier league, has pretty much exclusively played as a LW or #10 with license to roam and without much defensive responsibility. Just look at how he ranks for defensive stats when compared to wingers and attacking mids.... He doesn't do much of it. Compare him to deeper midfielders and he'll look a lot worse as well. It'd be more unbalanced than Pogba playing there next to Bruno.
https://fbref.com/en/players/b0b4fd3e/scout/365_euro/Jack-Grealish-Scouting-Report
As you say anyway, he isn't available, just signed a new contract with his boyhood club where he's captain, and Villa are very rich and have no reason to sell.
Sancho for me is somebody who will improve our decision making in attack drastically, improve our build up play and creativity and just get more consistent play across the front line. We won't be reliant on one wing vs the other, it'll be equal threat on both sides, and we'll be balanced with a creator on one side and a scorer on the other (compared to 2 very much scorers on the wings right now). The only thing that would make me pause on Sancho is if Diallo can come in and pretty much instantly show he should be a starter next season and prove to be a generational prospect, even ahead of Greenwood. The overall balance just looks better if we have:
Rashford Cavani Sancho
Martial Greenwood Diallo
As our starting and backup front 3s. Depth and quality.Martial Greenwood Diallo
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Oh yes always very talented but his stats have improved mainly because of improved application and experience.
When I say late bloomer, 23, 24, 25 is not that late, but the point I was making was that he hasn’t been a £100m prospect until recently, and I compared him to Zidane as someone who suddenly went up a level in terms of effectiveness around his mid twenties and just got better and better for five or six more years.
We’ll have to disagree on RW as I just don’t think we need one. It’s the defence that’s letting us down along with a lack of cool heads in CM.
What you say about Grealish is mostly true, but his stats are consistent with how he’s being used at the moment. I remember Chris Sutton being converted from CB to CF and you wouldn’t quote his prior attacking stats as a reason not to do it.
I think Grealish has the skill set for a type of no. 8 and if Gascoigne could do it, Grealish can, with the right balance of players around him (which absolutely includes good CBs and a good no.6). He’s naturally versatile because he is just an exceptional technical footballer; you can play him at 10 or 11 if you need or want to but if he starts at 8, he is the hub of all the play and you still have the option of subbing on a CM and pushing Grealish up if your front 4 aren’t doing it.
I’m sure we won’t buy Grealish but if anyone can find us a CM with his ability in receiving, holding, carrying and passing the ball, we could really do with him because we lost a lot of points this year by losing control of the midfield at times and especially in the last 15 mins of games.
Salah and Hazard maybe. I'd take him ahead of Coutinho every day and it's not even close.He perform consistently on a high level, but is not world class.
I’ve watched many of his games and even if he’s good he isn’t in the same league as example Salah, Coutinho, Hazard on their best. If he was that good, RM, City and LFC ++ would’ve been crazy after him. In this regard I think Grealish is overrated.
Maybe it’s only consensus outside a subjective England
Not today off course. I compared with their best season in PL. Coutinho’s best season in PL was immense. Definitely a step up from Grealish today.
I think what you meant to say is that RW represents a significant need but CB is a greater priority. Our right sided attack has been a black hole for creativity for several years. When is the last time we had a proper established right sided attacker? We are leaking goals and I absolutely agree that CB and possibly CDM should be addressed, but an established RW should be a very close 2nd or 3rd priority.
I don’t think Grealish is the answer but Sancho would be, however, I doubt our owners would have the financial wherewithal and commitment to finance both a CB and RW this summer.
I don’t think we’ll buy a RW.
Ideally, our RW should be as potent as our LW but even now we are comfortably the top scorers in the league. Add to that the recent form of Greenwood as a RW and the prospect of Amad, it knocks RW down the priorities.
Who we actually buy will depend less on what we need and more on who we are able to get, as per frickin’ usual.
Unless kane or haaland were possible signings this summer I would happily see us adopt system using using a false 9 with Fernandes in that role and seeing strengthen our central defence and have a good balanced 3 man midfield.
So move our most effective player into a position he isnt comfortable in
Are you thinking more or less a diamond with Bruno at the point and the front two, say Rashford and Greenwood, starting wide?
Erm, ok, but he looks able to play that role.His one good match?
I can’t see us shelling big dollar on RW. What can I say? If I’m wrong I’ll give up burgers for a week.
Grealish, and I would be okay with Rashford losing his starting berth. The front 5 would necessarily rotate where they play.
Pogba will be gone soon, I don't see us giving him a new contract, this is Matic's last hurrah (hopefully). I'm anti-Fred, so he should not be included in future plans, in my opinion.
No idea if Diallo is going to be an answer to anything, but if so, then Martial and Rashford will compete for one spot. We took a punt on Pellistri and because he was loaned out straight away, we should probably view him like any other youth prospect (i.e., don't get your hopes up).
Bruno chases the ball anyway, so McTominay would be more of a defensive midfielder, Grealish would operate on the right or drift inside, interchanging with Rashford. I'm going to leave the CBs and keeper as is.
From front to back:
-----------------Martial---------------Cavani----------------
Rashford-------------------Bruno---------------Grealish
----------------------------McTominay-----------------------
Shaw-------Maguire-------------Lindelof-----------AWB
------------------------------DeGea----------------------------
with Diallo:
-----------------Rashford-------------Cavani----------------
Grealish------------------Bruno----------------Diallo
----------------------------McTominay-----------------------
Shaw-------Maguire-------------Lindelof-----------AWB
------------------------------DeGea----------------------------
Pogba will be gone soon, I don't see us giving him a new contract, this is Matic's last hurrah (hopefully). I'm anti-Fred, so he should not be included in future plans, in my opinion.
No idea if Diallo is going to be an answer to anything, but if so, then Martial and Rashford will compete for one spot. We took a punt on Pellistri and because he was loaned out straight away, we should probably view him like any other youth prospect (i.e., don't get your hopes up).
Bruno chases the ball anyway, so McTominay would be more of a defensive midfielder, Grealish would operate on the right or drift inside, interchanging with Rashford. I'm going to leave the CBs and keeper as is.
From front to back:
-----------------Martial---------------Cavani----------------
Rashford-------------------Bruno---------------Grealish
----------------------------McTominay-----------------------
Shaw-------Maguire-------------Lindelof-----------AWB
------------------------------DeGea----------------------------
with Diallo:
-----------------Rashford-------------Cavani----------------
Grealish------------------Bruno----------------Diallo
----------------------------McTominay-----------------------
Shaw-------Maguire-------------Lindelof-----------AWB
------------------------------DeGea----------------------------
Harry Kane. He will want to go somewhere where he can win something.
Very offensive setup. Can imagine we’ll be in deep shit defensively.
Score loads, concede loads, swashbuckling!
It's not like he would be playing as an out and out striker and he almost practically plays as a second striker as it is, plus he played up front for sporting on occasions and was still effective.
Some what yeah, for me personally I prefer more flexibility in how teams attack like the current striker less city side, pre covid liverpool or the united with Tevez, rooney and ronaldo front 3 where there is no dependency on a sole central striker being a vocal point and relying on them to get 20 goals in a season
Greenwood should be played centrally and groomed as our next striker not wasted out wide. Diallo may be the answer but he’s 18. I’m shocked the club have failed to sign an established RW. There have been plenty over the years, Mahrez and Torres to name a few before they went to city, but yet it’s something our club feels isn’t a priority.
Not sure you understand how modern football works...
Those teams are outrageously unbalanced and would be torn to shreds by any half-decent pressing team.
I get people being desperate to get Grealish. Really I do; anyone can see how good he is. But that doesn't change the fact that we have no obvious position for him. Look how much trouble Griezmann caused Barcelona's system when they bought him without any idea of how to play him, and his two best positions (CF and RW) taken up by their two best players.
We're trying to have a team that can win the league next season. We should be looking for the final pieces of the puzzle, not signing a player that will force us to change our system. We have an obvious hole at RW (Greenwood is a forward, not a winger), and an obvious lack of quality at CB. Those are our two biggest priorities. Fix those, and our side is perfectly balanced and I believe is genuinely good enough to win the league. Grealish is a dangerous distraction who a feel will unbalance the team and cause more problems than he will solve.
I am convinced that if we buy Grealish it will be to play him in CM and that will not render us torn to shreds by pressing teams, it will be the opposite. Jack will calmly play us through the press. He is Xavi and Iniesta rolled into one. He would be like Pogba but much better. He would not cause problems, he would solve one of our biggest problems - the lack of quality and leadership in midfield.
I admit, I haven’t had a chorus of posters agreeing with me on this, but maybe Ole does, hope springs eternal.