I’d say Saka. Palmer pretty close. Foden a distant third.
Saka vs Foden vs Palmer
- Thread starter Walters_19_MuFc
- Start date
Pathetic post.
Saka is the best of this lot.
City could be doing with Palmer in their team right now. I vote Palmer.
But when he joined Chelsea he certainly wasn't the first name on the team sheet - he had to earn that. Something that he was given the opportunity to do (an opportunity that he'd never have been given the opportunity to do at city because Pep isn't about developing homegrown talent.
I'm not sure how this is puzzling? Palmer was kept out of the team by players that city had spent a great deal on in recent times. It was clear to him that as opposed to being given a chance to demonstrate his worth by Pep, he'd continue to have players parachuted in ahead of him in the pecking order for sizable fees.
You're wasting your breath. He thinks Palmer is the greatest player of all time.
I think Palmer is probably the most naturally gifted.
Foden the best technically but Saka is the most effective.
And if I was asked who would you want in your team I would say Saka 99 times out of 100.
Saka is better than Foden and imo has been for a number of years.
You will never catch Saka getting up to late November in the league and having zero goals. If Arsenal are playing shite you’d be very confident Saka on a regular basis can pull something out of his arse and decide the game. I don’t think Foden can as much. I think his confidence can dip in a way I don’t think you’ll ever see Sakas and actually Palmers too. The fact Pep numerous times over the last four years has pulled Foden out the team for some time tells you that. He’d never do that with Rodri, Kdb or Haaland. And Arsenal would never do that with Saka.
Foden the best technically but Saka is the most effective.
And if I was asked who would you want in your team I would say Saka 99 times out of 100.
Saka is better than Foden and imo has been for a number of years.
You will never catch Saka getting up to late November in the league and having zero goals. If Arsenal are playing shite you’d be very confident Saka on a regular basis can pull something out of his arse and decide the game. I don’t think Foden can as much. I think his confidence can dip in a way I don’t think you’ll ever see Sakas and actually Palmers too. The fact Pep numerous times over the last four years has pulled Foden out the team for some time tells you that. He’d never do that with Rodri, Kdb or Haaland. And Arsenal would never do that with Saka.
I don't, though. In fact I said earlier that I think Saka and Palmer are about the same level.
Palmer has the best all-round game. He can create and score consistently. I reckon he would be great in the 10ish role in Amorim's system too.
What are you talking about? Palmer joined Chelsea last season. He played virtually every game last season. He was only on the bench twice, both in August. A couple games to bed in is very normal for a new signing. Particularly when that new signing only turned 21 a couple months ago. And especially when their new team has 43 first team players at the time of joining.
If the reason Palmer decided to leave City was because Pep isn't about developing homegrown talent, why is one of the players that he's being compared to in this very thread Phil Foden with 173 appearances for City. (Leaving aside the players Pep brought through into the Barca side that he personally developed as Manager of Barca B.)
You're having a mare. You (not me) brought up three players who were keeping Palmer out of the team. Rodri joined in 2019, Bernardo joined in 2017 and KDB joined in 2015. Palmer was 13 years old when KDB signed, how exactly is that either particularly "recent" or an indicator that Palmer would "have players parachuted in ahead of him"? Especially when one of the players being played ahead of him was Phil Foden?
Palmer left City because City had superior options at the time. Neither he (PFA Young Player of the Year), Chelsea (signed a great English talent) or City (sold an academy player £40m+ and won a fourth successive PL title) seem upset about it. In fact, the person most worked up about the transfer seems to be you. For some reason.
You've picked a strange hill to die on.
Saka’s consistency wins it for me
I honestly struggle to see how you can hold pep up as an example of a coach that brings through youth players when Foden is pretty much the only example from his time at city.
As for the bolded, city have shown little to no interest in developing their own talents - the three you highlight were club signings - yes, made some time ago, but another sign that pep isn't interested in developing homegrown talent. You talk about Pep using his knowledge to bring players through into the Barca 1st team but how true actually is that? A very quick search threw an article which seems to imply that most of the players he gave debuts to (with a few notable exceptions) were middling talents that never really made it at Barcelona under him https://onefootball.com/en/news/whe...a-kids-given-debuts-by-pep-guardiola-34080619
Edit: I'm not sure what I've said to give you the impression that I'm worked up about the transfer. In fact, when you look at our responses side-by-side I would argue that you seem rather worked up, not me...
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Saying Pep was proven right to sell Palmer because they won the league last season is a very glib and short-sighted view.
If I could poach any player in the league for United it would be between Haaland and Palmer.
Firstly, I'm not particularly arguing for him as an example of bringing through youth players, I said that isn't the primary reason for Palmer deciding to leave (that would be the far more obvious reason that he recognised that City had better players than him and view Chelsea as a good place to kick on with career).
But secondly, if I were discussing Pep's ability and desire to bring through young players, why would the discussion be limited to his tenure at City? Especially as he began at Barca B working almost exclusively with young players, developed many of them during his time in charge of the senior team and joined City when they were only a few years into having an elite academy?
This is pretty meaningless as it's equally true of Ferguson at United. Most players any Manager gives debuts to don't make it. That's why you judge based on the "few notable exceptions". Like Roberto, who made nearly 400 appearances and finished his time at Barca as Captain. Or Thiago, who won 11 league titles and two CL at two different clubs. Or Busquets, arguably the best holding midfielder of all time.
I'm not sure about that one...
Anyway, looks like we're going around in circles. I'm interested to see how all three player progress this season. I'm also intrigued to see whether Tuchel tries to fit all three into a starting lineup.
I am just glad all three are English!
City is obviously the most significant test case as he's been there much longer than anywhere else. He's also not had the same pressure to bring through youth as he did at Barca, so it's instructive to see that, given the choice, he doesn't bother.
With respect, comparing guardiola and Ferguson when it comes to bringing through youth players is absurd. You're comparing five or six players that guardiola has brought through to the first team for a sustained period Vs Ferguson's record. I understand that most young players won't turn out to be top tier but I fundamentally disagree that you judge based on the notable exceptions. It has to be a combination of volume and quality. There has to be a willingness on the part of the coach to develop academy players for the first team, which leads to a greater number integrating long term.
Honestly not sure what the quotes you've posted are intended to show. They're mostly me politely disagreeing with you. Unlike the bolded, which was less polite:
We seem to be talking past each other, but I'll give it a go anyway...
Pep was under far higher pressure to win trophies in his first season at Barca Manager than he was at City (where he finished 3rd). There is pressure to bring youth through at Barca, but that is very much secondary to the pressure to win the biggest trophies for one of the biggest clubs in the world. Ask Xavi.
There's this weird thing that you see all over the Cafe, that when you mention a player, manager or club the response is always that "you can't compare them". One, of course you can. Two, I wasn't comparing their records, I was pointing out that your argument made little sense. You said that majority of the players Guardiola gave a debut to didn't make it long term at Barca. If the same is true for SAF at United, arguably the greatest developer of young talent of all time, then it's a pretty useless metric, isn't it? That has nothing to do with Pep vs SAF, it's to do with your argument not carrying any water.
I agree that there has to be a combination of volume and quality. However, I would frame it more as how many notable exceptions are there, rather than how many player make it into and stick around the first team squad. In my team's case, one Saka is worth five Smith-Rowes, both in terms of their impact on the team and their literal transfer fees.
I didn't think the bolded was all that rude, but I apologise. Seeing as you literally told someone that disagreed with you to go and find another forum, I didn't think of you as easily offended.
As am I.
I agree we're not really getting anywhere at this point. One last thing re the bolded: yes, I do think it's relevant that the fact that most of the youth that guardiola blooded at Barcelona only went on to have middling careers, and then not at Barcelona, when coupled with his inability to bring youth through pretty much everywhere else he's been. Put together, they paint a picture of a coach that's either not fussed about developing homegrown talent, not able to (in any significant number) or both.
As for the idea that 'how many notable exceptions are there' should be the metric, I don't disagree. That said, guardiola in his career has brought through very few players from the youth teams full stop. You'd certainly expect a coach of his calibre to have more than the handful that he has to his name.
You're right, I was rude to the other poster and that was petty of me. My apologies to them.
Palmer is easily the best footballer of the three, one of these rare instances where a player has such awareness of time and space that the game seems to slow down and be easy for him, and he can manipulate the ball so well.
Odegaard would be the comparison in the Arsenal team for me. Saka is highly effective at what he does on that right wing, but it's a totally different game to Palmer.
Foden is obviously very good as well but I think he comes third for me, not as good a player as Palmer and not as effective as Saka. Would be third choice if I had a chance of signing them.
I think City made a big mistake letting Palmer go, although they were probably unaware of just how good he would be at the time they sold him, and Foden was flying.
Odegaard would be the comparison in the Arsenal team for me. Saka is highly effective at what he does on that right wing, but it's a totally different game to Palmer.
Foden is obviously very good as well but I think he comes third for me, not as good a player as Palmer and not as effective as Saka. Would be third choice if I had a chance of signing them.
I think City made a big mistake letting Palmer go, although they were probably unaware of just how good he would be at the time they sold him, and Foden was flying.
It's pretty simple. Technique is there with all three. But football intelligence and awareness of time and space here is where Palmer comes out on top, Saka second and Foden a very, very distant third.
I think it’s blatantly obvious City messed up in letting Palmer go. Especially when you consider his output and the fact City are really lacking a spread of goals beyond Haaland.
Ultimately they haven’t been very good in their transfer business in recent times. Signing the likes of Nunes, Doku, Grealish and Savinho, whilst letting someone like Palmer leave the club is criminal.
Ultimately they haven’t been very good in their transfer business in recent times. Signing the likes of Nunes, Doku, Grealish and Savinho, whilst letting someone like Palmer leave the club is criminal.
Foden has become quite underrated now. The euros seems to have done unbelievable damage to his reputation.
Palmer is in danger of becoming a little bit overrated now too. He’s fantastic, he’s brilliant, he’s a joy to watch but he isn’t better than Saka imo. He’s done enough to be in the conversation with Foden, Saka etc and maybe over time he’ll prove to be better but right now, he hasn’t separated himself from his peers yet.
Palmer is in danger of becoming a little bit overrated now too. He’s fantastic, he’s brilliant, he’s a joy to watch but he isn’t better than Saka imo. He’s done enough to be in the conversation with Foden, Saka etc and maybe over time he’ll prove to be better but right now, he hasn’t separated himself from his peers yet.
Is it possible to win PFA Player of the Year in May and become underrated by November? I still have yet to hear anyone in the media call him out.
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Personally I go for Palmer as the best. I think if you were to merge Saka and Foden together then you would end up with Palmer. Hope we sign him one day.
Wow. Such a level headed post from someone who should naturally be inclined to gas Palmer up.
You're obviously right though, they're all still relatively young, let's see what happens. As I've said, I think Palmer has the most potential of the three but we can't dismiss Saka's consistency over a considerable period now.
I was thinking about the ceiling for these guys in terms of:
-All time world great
-Generational world great
-PL/England great
I don't think all-time world great is on the table for any of them, frankly, but generational great (i.e. being thought of as one of the best players of their generation) is perhaps a possibility if one of them gets the absolute max out of their career/talent?
I will never understand why people actively want to be in an echo chamber. As a United fan, I'd be so happy that a forum dedicated to my club attracts so many fans other clubs with all kinds of different backgrounds and perspectives that enrich this platform.
I still happen to think that Foden is the best overall player of the three. He’s out of form in a struggling team, but two months of a season isn’t going to change my mind just yet.
It also depends where you want to play them. I think Saka is the best wide player. For example, I’d play him on the right for England ahead of the others.
Palmer is brilliant, don’t get me wrong, and I wouldn’t be starting Foden ahead of him right now. But overall I think Foden is a genuinely phenomenal player and I expect he’ll be back to something that resembles his best form sooner rather than later.
It also depends where you want to play them. I think Saka is the best wide player. For example, I’d play him on the right for England ahead of the others.
Palmer is brilliant, don’t get me wrong, and I wouldn’t be starting Foden ahead of him right now. But overall I think Foden is a genuinely phenomenal player and I expect he’ll be back to something that resembles his best form sooner rather than later.
It's always nice when they do that, I agree!
Corrected that for you
Hahaha, nope, I was merely suggesting that that poster may be happier on a forum that caters to their interests/passions (Barcelona and Guardiola) specifically. I disagreed with @Daydreamer and we discussed the point but I don't see the mileage in engaging with one of the cult of Barca posters in general.
I mean, discussing with cultists is never particularly pleasant but that goes in both direction, doesn't it? This isn't the only forum I'm posting on and I don't like when people are narrow minded, regardless of whether they support a different club or the same as me.
I'm not a cultist, I just disagree with stuff that he says and he doesn't like it. Most of my posts are not even about Barcelona.
I didn't intend to imply that
That he won PFA player of the year shows how overrated he was
Foden in struggling team pushed him into third between those three. Saka was coming through from struggling arsenal team to vital cog of top 4 side. But his numbers compared to palmer pushed him second.
Palmer came to a struggling chelsea team and made them tick and his numbers on par with haaland since his transfer to Chelsea. Palmer was shining light in england team as well in Euros despite very limited chances he got.
So for me palmer saka then foden as of now.
Palmer came to a struggling chelsea team and made them tick and his numbers on par with haaland since his transfer to Chelsea. Palmer was shining light in england team as well in Euros despite very limited chances he got.
So for me palmer saka then foden as of now.
I think he is a better overall player than Saka even though it's early days. Saka is highly effective, but he only really ever cuts in and shoots or whips in crosses. He's devastating with those weapons and you could argue that's what you want from your right forward.
I think you could put Palmer anywhere on the park though, and he'd influence the game, seems to have the brain, vision and technique for it.
You guys are really underestimating Saka's value. He's very good at downloading opposition fullbacks. Also, his movement off the ball supreme is supreme. Yesterday's game was just another example of how he has much more in his locker than you've described above. Oh, he's also the best defensively of all three.