Can I ask where you are getting those stats from? I'm looking at FBREF and that's giving me very different numbers.
Saka (Arsenal)
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Can I ask where you are getting those stats from? I'm looking at FBREF and that's giving me very different numbers.
That's not saying much really. England's attack has been the worst in the competition behind Scotland. You could take anyone out of the starting lineup and it wouldn't be wrong.
Fbref gives stats over a prolonged period. I'm giving you one season at Chelsea in the premier league
Fbref is giving you the stats over the past 365 days in all competitions
https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/15/Show/England-Chelsea
That list just shows to be "passing completion" stats are virtually worthless. It's got Gallagher at 91.5% . If you look at Man United, Bruno, Garnahco and Martial are all at under 80%. It's because they're not just passing it sideways and backwards.
Palmer came off the bench when the team was 1-0 down in a knock out game, it's no surprise he wasn't playing it safe with the passing.
Again he was trying to force normal passes out to the wing or into the middle. He did also try 4 crosses with no England head on them, but Foden tried 11 with little success and still managed 83%
He just passed the ball poorly and was tightly marked and didnt make much progress. At a time in the game where we needed to keep the pressure on he helped our opponent relieve it with poor decisions
Did much better the previous game but was no better than Saka and Foden last time out
I'd drop him. Tries too much and stops the ball. England aren't set up to really take advantage of his qualities right now and he's hurting the attack more than he helps. Need players who will keep the ball moving quickly, Saka is dropping his shoulder and trying to take on 2-3 defenders everytime, which leads nowhere of course. He's not getting support from his teammates, but he's also not adapting either
Saka is the only forward across the front line who has been looking for the ball and trying to make runs.
The build up play has been worse than ordinary and so slow. Foden has been invisible and floating around and with Trippier being the LB England have zero balance or width. Saka is holding his RW position and being doubled up on too easily. He's being isolated and it takes so long to get the ball to him he's already doubled up.
This is what happens when you play slow build up with a focus on coming narrow all the time. Kane doesn't run. Bellingham is too deep. Foden's nowhere. Full backs aren't stretching the game and the midfield have been very ordinary (mostly cos there are so few forwards making any form of meaningful movement)
England aren't set up to take advantage of any of the forwards qualities your right - but Saka has shown willing whereas Foden and Kane just have not
You could say the same about Mainoo who can't seem to do wrong on this forum and going by comments you'd think it was Gattuso playing againt Slovakia. Despite him being in the team the team still plays and defends trash with a non existent midfield
It's simply on the manager. The same Saka Foden etc look amazing at their clubs.
When a dinosaur is managing you noone can look good.
Any good manager would dominate others with Mainoo Rice Bellingham in midifled and Foden/Palmer/Saka Kane. But Southgate is simply 2 centuries behind
I think we've all come to the conclusion now that the talent within this squad has surpassed Southgate's capabilities as a coach.
I'm an arsenal fan and I agree with this. Saka's best attribute is his intelligence and ability to play off his other teammates. His chemistry with Odegaard and Ben White is amazing and the runs they make off each other's passes and movement are what create space.
Walker is probably the worst RB partner you can give Saka. Terrible on the ball and has been asked to play back more so Trippier can move forward. Plus he doesn't make timely runs. Every time Saka gets the ball he basically has two defenders on him and the play goes nowhere.
England should play Palmer. Let him drift inside because Bellingham is useless as an actual 10. And try to get Walker more up the pitch for width.
Said during the game that he appears to struggle without Ben White's runs.
I'd actually drop Walker first, and see if Trent and Saka can develop something. Walker is awful offensively.
And if we're starting Trent, I'd also drop Kane, so Watkins can stretch the defence and at least give the CBs something to think in behind.
Saka, in my opinion, isn't even close to being the first guy to drop if I want to freshen the team up.
And if we're starting Trent, I'd also drop Kane, so Watkins can stretch the defence and at least give the CBs something to think in behind.
Saka, in my opinion, isn't even close to being the first guy to drop if I want to freshen the team up.
Should be playing Watkins up front in my opinion too as it's just more dynamic. Walker is good for possession based football where England would hold the ball endlessly like with City. But that doesn't really match the strengths of this team.
Pretty much. Need a more forward thinking manager, not a plug gap strategy manager. Choosing big names only isn't going to cut it. Reminds me of Martinez and Deschamps. Lots of talent there, but they are not functional teams either.
No you can't. One has started all the matches and the other hasn't.
I assume that's the plan when Shaw comes back. Trent for Walker, Shaw for Trippier. I think that'll solve a lot of problems but he's nowhere close to fitness.
And made no difference to anything. We almost lost the game and the midfield had massive holes everytime they went through. Same for United, with your negative goal difference and your non-existent midfield with massive gaps.
The point is he's extremely talented, probably the biggest talent to come out of United in a while but under shitte managers such players don't make a difference. Any competent manager would dominate the opposition with this England side.
Deschamps? World champion, WC runner-up and Euro runner-up Deschamps?
Yes, that one. The one that has managed to take a team full of exciting talent and put that on the pitch.
Successfully so
He has done ok results wise but the style of play is getting worse and worse. Lots of escapes and pretty dim performances and mentality on the pitch. The insistence to not slot in the best in form natural options....yea, reminds me of Southgate. This is a nation stocked with tat least as much talent as any at the Euros.
And they are in the QF. After making a WC final in Qatar. After winning in Russia. After a EC final in 2016 which they lost to a team of destiny
How is this contradicting anything he's saying? Everyone agrees that Deschamps has made France boring on the whole, with a few exceptions depending on games. But on the whole, very boring and defensive mindset (not surprising considering who he was as a player).
What's surprising is that from time to time, tactics completely explode and you see how exciting they can be (the 2018 game against Argentina, the last final, some of his games at Monaco...), but on the overwhelming majority it's very negative, notwithstanding the results (which only show that individual talent at international level is usually sufficient to edge past weaker, better coached opponents).
I'm not contraddicting they're boring. The original point of this argument was about squad's talent surpassing the manager's coaching ability, and while that may be true about Southgate and Martinez, nothing so far has indicated that is the case with Deschamps
You think the way the team has played on the whole under him is a testament to his coaching ability? Genuinely?
I think the results are
You either didn't understand that poster's point, or you're being too stubborn to chat in good faith.
No, I'm being pedantic and arguing the original point they were replying to rather than the subsequent one they made
I am not sure what you are looking at, but France isn't looking very good. They look flat and unimaginative. Now one of Deschamps Southgate and Martinez might still find glory out of this Euro 2024, but it wont be by looking dominant and playing to their team's highest potential.
There is actually a decent chance one of those three will win, but again I will likely not credit the manager a whole lot if one of them does. Similarly, I dont credit Deschamps for the last WC run where they got to the finals. It was a pretty bumpy run to say the least. I don't even know what he was thinking in the finals, and it is only individual player brilliance that bailed him out a bit.
Anyway, for another thread..
France dominated every group game, and should have won each of them by 2 goals margin at a minimum, they just failed in front if goal. Created a ton, the team that created the most chances in the group stage. Yes the attack looked anemic against Belgium's bus, but it was Belgium, it was a parked bus, they conceded nothing and still ultimately created enough to win
As for not crediting Deschamps for their success - either managers matter and should be credited for their team's success, or they don't, in which case talking about the quality of this or that manager is meaningless. France have played 5 tournamente under Deschamps - QF tight loss to eventual WC Germany - final - win - R16(fluke) - final
This belief that he isn't maximizing France's talent - when results are clearly showing otherwise - is delusion. Pure and simple. Unless you believe this french team to be equivalent in talent to 1970 Brazil
Ok, you are seeing the matches differently, which explains your position. I don't see a dominant team at all. I think they were a bit lucky against Austria, They even had less possession than them which is a bit shocking. Netherlands game was a rather drab affair, which they could have lost but for a rather tight call to the say the least. Poland, they should have won but this is a team that lost all their games. Poland managed to snatch a draw and subsequently France only finished second putting themselves in this tough draw. I have yet to see them as a dominant team. Not sure you can say Belgium parked the bus either. They had 44% possession it seems. It was just a very poor game overall. France just seemed content to blast it from well out...well over. Think we will disagree here, but I really don't see it
I'm seeing the matches for what actually happebed, whereas you seem to focus on possession for some reason. Against Austria Mbappé could have had a hat trick, and Giroud missed a tap in. Against the Netherlands Griezmann managed to miss an open goal - twice. They battered both and should have won both games. Possession is a meaningless stat
Fabregas is spot on with his fake hair. Conte should take notes.
Also: Passing accuracy stats by themselves are a bit meaningless as you need context in terms of where and how you give the ball away.
Also: Saka was generally shit.
They have 3 goals in 4 games, of which one was deflected, one an own goal and the third one is a penalty. They have a grand total of 15 shots on goal in four games of which more than half came against Poland....the one match where they were clearly the better team. What stat am I supposed to look at, because I watched the games and was not overly impressed. I dont see "dominant" in any of that.
Personally, I think Kante is keeping them competitive and defensively it has been pretty solid, But it's not working attack wise at all. This team is flat, visually and statistically. They may still win, but it certainly hasn't looked good so far. Potential good news for them is that Rabiot is suspended for this next one. Now if they could get away from playing Thuram, but there are not too many options on that bench. Why is Olise not there?
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They missed a ton of chances. It happens sometimes
I think he's looked the best of the 3 attackers behind Kane because hes the most rounded and can make runs in behind and can dribble past a player or two but its not really his game or something he excels at and is going to be doing non stop for 90 mins. Its a nice bonus to a player who wants the ball to feet and play some combination passes and overlaps with a couple of teammates which you cant do in a vacuum.
If you swap Kane out and it probably solves a lot of problems with Watkins stretching things a bit. I dont expect that to happen and i'd want pacy players making runs in behind on the wings with Kane which isn't Saka. It isn't Palmer either though and theres enough of a gap in quality to Bowen that i'd play Saka anyway. It'd just reinforce that I need Gordon on the other wing for me. Eze seems in the same boat as Saka and Palmer where he can offer pace in behind but it doesn't seem to be his favoured game from the limited amount i've seen
If you swap Kane out and it probably solves a lot of problems with Watkins stretching things a bit. I dont expect that to happen and i'd want pacy players making runs in behind on the wings with Kane which isn't Saka. It isn't Palmer either though and theres enough of a gap in quality to Bowen that i'd play Saka anyway. It'd just reinforce that I need Gordon on the other wing for me. Eze seems in the same boat as Saka and Palmer where he can offer pace in behind but it doesn't seem to be his favoured game from the limited amount i've seen
Saka hasn't been great, though he's had a few bright spots. Foden has been bad. It hasn't looked much different when Palmer or Bowen come on. Kane is dropping ridiculously deep just to get touches on the ball. At some point, shouldn't the conclusion be that the problem isn't the forwards, but that the build up and the midfield is so bad that the forwards aren't getting anything to work with?
This Mainoo Rice combo is a poor one. That's the most glaring problem for me. The passing is not progressing far enough. The whole team looks unbalanced though to be honest. Not sure what the plan was. Watkins should come in for Kane too. And Foden...I would put Gordon instead. Not saying Kane and Foden are bad but they are not the best fit as I see it.
Shawberto with the trolling 
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Would be interesting if he wanted to play for the team he supports. I think he could handle the step up to a big club.