Saka (Arsenal)

MO_Football92 said:
I'm not one to be pedantic but yes you won the Fa Cup six seasons ago under Van Gaal then in Mourinhos first campaign he achieved a Europa League and Carabao Cup double, which means you only reached won final in five seasons (2018 Vs Chelsea) and lost.

This together with the money you've spent means your actually not doing considerably better only slightly. Therefore Saka probably wouldn't view United as a destination to elevate his career.
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You are not pedantic, you are just wrong. We won FA Cup in 2016. That’s 5 years ago and one of the last 5 seasons too regardless of how you try to spin it. We won League Cup and Europa League 4 years ago, it is also one of the last 5 seasons. So basically when you said we hadn’t won anything in the last 5 seasons, we actually won all of those things in that timespan. When you say ‘last 5 seasons’ you cannot possibly include the current season in that as nobody has won anything this season yet. For all you know we may still do FA Cup and EL double.

You made a wrong statement and now try to still spin it as right by saying something that happened 4 or 5 years ago was not in the last 5 years.

But yeah, if you actually exclude all finals we won in the last 5 seasons, then we lost all finals we were in. That statement is correct. Also, if you exclude all games in which Arsenal got points this season, you have actually lost every single game this year - that's catastrophic!
 
MO_Football92 said:
I already responded about RVP on another post. His first season he won the league then finished 7th the next. At that time Arsenal sold their best asserts to keep in line with their agreement towards paying for the Emirates.

I'm not sure I fully agree with United being ahead. You've certainly got the better manager and play more in the champions League but without really competing or winning cups despite your net spend.
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RVP achieved everything he hoped to at Utd, and that which he knew was impossible at Arsenal. In one season. The first time we played you that season one of your players swapped shirts with him at half time, the second he received a guard of honour on his return the Emirates. That season alone proved it was a step up.

We're certainly closer than I'd like to admit right now. At the start of the season, I thought you'd be ahead of us going on how you'd finished 19/20 under Arteta/the players you'd signed and managed to hold on to. I actually think Arteta has a higher ceiling than Ole managerially too.

That said, despite this season being absolutely barmy, it's hard not to look past the fact that we're 2nd and Arsenal are languishing in mid-table. Right now, I think there's more chance we'll end up with a trophy than you too. If these play out (big if), I think it would be hard not to argue that Utd are ahead.

Not sure what net spend has to do with anything really either when comparing where two teams are regarding progress. By that logic, I could argue that City and Utd are actually neck and neck due to them having spent more last summer.
 
He's playing at Arsenal who are a big club but realistically seemingly are not aiming for anything feasible. Saying he's the best at Arsenal is like saying the same if it were for Mcneil (19/20 years old) at Burnley a few seasons ago. It sounds wonderful because he's a teenager etc but without consideration to the context, there exists far blown assumptions. We are not talking about an Arsenal team with a desirous first 11, multiple amounts of competitions for places (Foden), the Arsenal squad is still considerably of lower top 8 standard.

If Arsenal were contending for a top three spot the pressure is completely different. Those misses and poor finishes (that every player is entitled to) as we have seen with Rashford, endures mounted frustration from fans and these instances end up completely changing the trajectory of an entire season when the team is in a competitive position.

Saka is for me of the contention of a top 5 squad. We are not talking about a Grealish who would realistically walk into most first 11s (unless tactical reasons). The recommendation for Grealish that City / Liverpool is the ONLY step up is far more a credible statement because he has a solid composition in the foundation of his influence, to the extent, that what he brings to the table far out weighs the relevance of Villas consistencies for example. That's why we all accommodate Grealish as being one of the best in the league compared to just saying the best at Villa, he bridges that gap.

Saka was out of contract a few months ago and to my knowledge no one made a real anchored push for him. Talented yes but still unproven. It's hard to make an astute judgement until Arsenal have more to give with the expectation of where they are going. He's punching around the level of a Harvey Barnes for me who's criminally underrated and has proven more.
 
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passing-wind said:
He's playing at Arsenal who are a big club but realistically seemingly are not aiming for anything feasible. Saying he's the best at Arsenal is like saying the same if it were for Mcneil (19/20 years old) at Burnley a few seasons ago. It sounds wonderful because he's a teenager etc but without consideration to the context, there exists far blown assumptions. We are not talking about an Arsenal team with a desirous first 11, multiple amounts of competitions for places (Foden), the Arsenal squad is still considerably of lower top 8 standard.

If Arsenal were contending for a top three spot the pressure is completely different. Those misses and poor finishes (that every player is entitled to) as we have seen with Rashford, endures mounted frustration from fans and these instances end up completely changing the trajectory of an entire season when the team is in a competitive position.

Saka is for me of the contention of a top 5 squad. We are not talking about a Grealish who would realistically walk into most first 11s (unless tactical reasons). The recommendation for Grealish that City / Liverpool is the ONLY step up is far more a credible statement because he has a solid composition in the foundation of his influence, to the extent, that what he brings to the table far out weighs the relevance of Villas consistencies for example. That's why we all accommodate Grealish as being one of the best in the league compared to just saying the best at Villa, he bridges that gap.

Saka was out of contract a few months ago and to my knowledge no one made a real anchored push for him. Talented yes but still unproven. It's hard to make an astute judgement until Arsenal have more to give with the expectation of where they are going. He's punching around the level of a Harvey Barnes for me who's criminally underrated and has proven more.
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Saka would walk into our first XI on the RW.
 
Mogget said:
That's a strange way to put it. Were you personally involved?

I don't even know why United fans are suddenly interested in Saka. He's nowhere near as good as Mason "generational talent" Greenwood.
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I guess you are being sarcastic but I think Greenwood and Saka are similar level talents, both equally capable of going to the absolute top. Personally think Foden is slightly better than both. Although difficult to compare given where the respective teams are.
 
AgentSmith said:
Saka would walk into our first XI on the RW.
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Any half decent right winger would to be fair. Or left winger for that matter. I'd imagine that there are wingers in Championship who would walk into our team.
 
mav_9me said:
I guess you are being sarcastic but I think Greenwood and Saka are similar level talents, both equally capable of going to the absolute top. Personally think Foden is slightly better than both. Although difficult to compare given where the respective teams are.
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I was being sarcastic because I remember the way people were talking about Saka and Greenwood in the first few pages of this thread.

I'm of the same opinion I was then. All 3 (Foden, Greenwood, Saka) look like they could be very special players but they're still so young. It doesn't really matter who's better right now
 
I know it hasnt been a long time since he has broken through but -

Who do people see as better? Saka or Sancho?

Saka seems very creative for an inverted forward which is quite nice (maybe a bit rarer) to see.

 
Sarni said:
Any half decent right winger would to be fair. Or left winger for that matter. I'd imagine that there are wingers in Championship who would walk into our team.
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Depressing valid.

I was just pointing it out to that poster because he said Saka would only be in contention as a squad member for the top 5 teams.

He’d easily start for every team in the top 5 bar City. And even then Pep would probably fit him in as a LB/CM hybrid.
 
Bebestation said:
I know it hasnt been a long time since he has broken through but -

Who do people see as better? Saka or Sancho?

Saka seems very creative for an inverted forward which is quite nice (maybe a bit rarer) to see.

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Even as an Arsenal fan I think you'd be crazy not to say Sancho at this point given his sustained elite levels of production over several years in the Bundesliga.

But I will say that it wouldn't be surprise me at all if Saka was able to produce very big goals+assists numbers himself if he were transported into that team and league. I think he has everything to be an absolutely top level player. But he still has to prove it on the pitch over time.
 
Powderfinger said:
Even as an Arsenal fan I think you'd be crazy not to say Sancho at this point given his sustained elite levels of production over several years in the Bundesliga.

But I will say that it wouldn't be surprise me at all if Saka was able to produce very big goals+assists numbers himself if he were transported into that team and league. I think he has everything to be an absolutely top level player. But he still has to prove it on the pitch over time.
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Atm is obviously Sancho, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Saka ended up the best out of him, Sancho, Mason and Foden, the four golden boys of English football at this moment. He is truly sensational, probably more important than Auba at Arsenal. Needs better players alongside him than Xhaka, Luiz and Bellerin. We don’t seem to have any chance of getting him but City were linked recently; let’s let it be at Arsenal rather than City.
 
Sancho and Foden are atleast one level up from Saka at the present but I have no doubt in my mind that Saka will reach those two in near future. He seems incredibly unfazed, confident and consistent for his age.
 
RashyForPM said:
Atm is obviously Sancho, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Saka ended up the best out of him, Sancho, Mason and Foden, the four golden boys of English football at this moment. He is truly sensational, probably more important than Auba at Arsenal. Needs better players alongside him than Xhaka, Luiz and Bellerin. We don’t seem to have any chance of getting him but City were linked recently; let’s let it be at Arsenal rather than City.
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I agree with everything you say, especially that last part. :)
 
RashyForPM said:
Atm is obviously Sancho, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Saka ended up the best out of him, Sancho, Mason and Foden, the four golden boys of English football at this moment. He is truly sensational, probably more important than Auba at Arsenal. Needs better players alongside him than Xhaka, Luiz and Bellerin. We don’t seem to have any chance of getting him but City were linked recently; let’s let it be at Arsenal rather than City.
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He will, hopefully after the summer.
 
Genuine question, but why would he stay at Arsenal beyond this year? Why would another team not try to snap him up, something like a City. The most impressive thing about him is his movement and he would fit perfectly into the system Guardiola uses.
 
Harry190 said:
Genuine question, but why would he stay at Arsenal beyond this year? Why would another team not try to snap him up, something like a City. The most impressive thing about him is his movement and he would fit perfectly into the system Guardiola uses.
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He signed a contract months ago for 30k that Arsenal will no doubt try to extend this summer with another pay rise. He's 19, why would he go to City play fight with all their 60M players to hopefully get 20mn cameos and cup games ? He's good but he would be stupid to leave his current situation. He's almost guaranteed to start at RW/LW depending on other players availability. Unless we massively turned it around, there is little doubt he will eventually think about it but i don't see anything happening for 2 to 3 years. He'd be 22 and still have plenty of options.
 
awop said:
He signed a contract months ago for 30k that Arsenal will no doubt try to extend this summer with another pay rise. He's 19, why would he go to City play fight with all their 60M players to hopefully get 20mn cameos and cup games ? He's good but he would be stupid to leave his current situation. He's almost guaranteed to start at RW/LW depending on other players availability. Unless we massively turned it around, there is little doubt he will eventually think about it but i don't see anything happening for 2 to 3 years. He'd be 22 and still have plenty of options.
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Exactly. Spot on. And even with everyone available he would be first choice in the attack somewhere.

What's he going to do at city? Get half the game time or less. City would be completely pointless.

He is better off at arsenal now, see where he is in 2-3 yrs, make sure he has 2 yrs left on his contract if he wants to go anywhere reasonable. If arsenal improve even better for him. Be the star of an improving arsenal.
 
If he doesn't sign a new contract during the summer, he will most likely end up at City after next season.
 
RashyForPM said:
Tbf, will Kroenke really spend especially in this Covid climate? I doubt it.
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He took on the stadium debt and advanced the Partey money so....maybe. We definitely need to keep selling/move on our deadwood like the previous 2 transfer windows.
 
RashyForPM said:
Tbf, will Kroenke really spend especially in this Covid climate? I doubt it.
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Im not expecting much (if any) of a net spend, but we do have a number of players that we could sell to raise funds, but obviously we'd need a bit of luck for that.

But I'd be looking to actively sell Kolasinac, Bellerin, Maitland-Niles, Chambers, Mavropanos, Guendouzi, Torriera, Willock, Nketiah, Lacazette & probably Nelson, although I appreciate doing all that is much easier said than done.

Im not even after big name replacements, I'd have Saliba replacing Luiz & starting alongside Gabriel, & buy some good players aged between 20-25 used to British footbal, a Bissouma or Anguissa I think would compliment Partey well in midfield, I think an Edouard or a Toney would be a more well rounded option up front than Lacazette, a Buendia perhaps if we can't get Odegaard for next season.

There's good players out there that go under the radar every year & I'd rather we bought smarter looking for actual attributes we actually need rather than focus on big names that generally don't seem to work out for us. More like the Liverpool strategy when Klopp first came.
 
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GoonerBear said:
Im not expecting much (if any) of a net spend, but we do have a number of players that we could sell to raise funds, but obviously we'd need a bit of luck for that.

But I'd be looking to actively sell Kolasinac, Bellerin, Maitland-Niles, Chambers, Mavropanos, Guendouzi, Torriera, Willock, Nketiah, Lacazette & probably Nelson, although I appreciate doing all that is much easier said than done.

Im not even after big name replacements, I'd have Saliba replacing Luiz & starting alongside Gabriel, & buy some good players aged between 20-25 used to British footbal, a Bissouma or Anguissa I think would compliment Partey well in midfield, I think an Edouard or a Toney would be a more well rounded option up front than Lacazette, a Buendia perhaps if we can't get Odegaard for next season.

There's good players out there that go under the radar every year & I'd rather we bought smarter looking for actual attributes we actually need rather than focus on big names that generally don't seem to work out for us. More like the Liverpool strategy when Klopp first came.
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I feel like that would take way more than one summer tbf. Bearing the mind that aside from the obvious signings that would improve you that you’ve listed, it would take at least 3 years to flog all those players as the lesser teams who would actually take them recover from the effects of Covid (I suppose bar Bellerin and Lacazette, who Barca and Atletico have targeted recently).
 
GoonerBear said:
Im not expecting much (if any) of a net spend, but we do have a number of players that we could sell to raise funds, but obviously we'd need a bit of luck for that.

But I'd be looking to actively sell Kolasinac, Bellerin, Maitland-Niles, Chambers, Mavropanos, Guendouzi, Torriera, Willock, Nketiah, Lacazette & probably Nelson, although I appreciate doing all that is much easier said than done.

Im not even after big name replacements, I'd have Saliba replacing Luiz & starting alongside Gabriel, & buy some good players aged between 20-25 used to British footbal, a Bissouma or Anguissa I think would compliment Partey well in midfield, I think an Edouard or a Toney would be a more well rounded option up front than Lacazette, a Buendia perhaps if we can't get Odegaard for next season.

There's good players out there that go under the radar every year & I'd rather we bought smarter looking for actual attributes we actually need rather than focus on big names that generally don't seem to work out for us. More like the Liverpool strategy when Klopp first came.
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I think Bissouma and Anguissa are good players with premier League experience, but we need players that suit the Arsenal philosophy. Midfielders of the Fabregas, Hleb, Nasri mold to really get back to where we belong.

I agree though about selling most of those players you mentioned. It will certainly be an interesting summer especially if we do not get European football next season.
 
RashyForPM said:
I feel like that would take way more than one summer tbf. Bearing the mind that aside from the obvious signings that would improve you that you’ve listed, it would take at least 3 years to flog all those players as the lesser teams who would actually take them recover from the effects of Covid (I suppose bar Bellerin and Lacazette, who Barca and Atletico have targeted recently).
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Yeah, I did say that it would be unlikely we'd manage to do all that. I don't think with the players I've mentioned to bring in, we'd need to do all those sales to get them thankfully, but Edu does have a lot of work to do in the summer.
Torriera, Guendouzi, Kolasinac, Maitland-Niles, Mavropanos & Willock are all out on loan already, while Chambers, Nketiah & Lacazette will only have 1 year left in the summer. I think we could find buyers for most but might need to lower what we would previously have wanted in terms of a fee.

Bellerin I think wants a new challenge & I could see a PSG or perhaps a Barca coming on for him.

MO_Football92 said:
I think Bissouma and Anguissa are good players with premier League experience, but we need players that suit the Arsenal philosophy. Midfielders of the Fabregas, Hleb, Nasri mold to really get back to where we belong.

I agree though about selling most of those players you mentioned. It will certainly be an interesting summer especially if we do not get European football next season.
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The Arsenal philosophy of Fabregas, Hleb & Nasri unfortunately didn't win anything because they were deemed too soft at times. However, when the had tall, athletic, powerful midfielders, ie Vieira, Petit, Gilberto to compliment the skill of Pires, Bergkamp etc we were more balanced & more successful. I believe we need a more solid base still because the likes of Saka, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli, an Odegaard, can then flourish.
 
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I doubt arsenal will have any money to spend in the summer. Same for all other clubs. No one has money.
 
What's going rate for Saka? £60M-80M? Seems like even if a club wanted to sign him, and he wanted to leave, Arsenal would make it very difficult for him to leave.
 
WeePat said:
What's going rate for Saka? £60M-80M? Seems like even if a club wanted to sign him, and he wanted to leave, Arsenal would make it very difficult for him to leave.
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Considering his importance to the team, age etc probably £100mil + for Arsenal to even consider a bid I reckon. But really he's priceless
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I doubt arsenal will have any money to spend in the summer. Same for all other clubs. No one has money.
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Hopefully there will still be some movement. Theres big players such as the likes of Mbappe, Halland & Sancho that are still highly sought after by the elite clubs.

Then when you look at contracts ending in 2022 on transfermarkt, there's still a significant list that (if players can't agree new contracts) clubs won't want to lose for nothing, guys like Pogba, Varane, Dybala, Camavinga, Dembele, Isco, Sabitzer, Kessie, Zakaria, Elvedi, Tolisso, Soumare, Edouard, Ajer to name a few, so any movement there will filter down a bit.

Bayern have already committed over £35M to Upamecano showing some big clubs will still have some sort of fund, & the likes of Chelsea might spend big like last summer to get a chance of some top rated players while the market is deflated. Maybe with crowds coming back next season clubs will do more structured deals like Liverpool managed to do with Jota & Thiago where its not as much of the fee up front, or more loans with options / obligations to buy.

Apologies for going a bit off topic in the Saka thread!
 
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Topgun1 said:
What the feck, I genuinely think you over the cliff mentally :lol: I'm glad I'm not part of your household.
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So did I reply to your Lewandowski post? You posted some lie at least thrice and I'm yet to see that post.
 
Been one of his worst halves for us. Must be the attention on here!
 
roonster09 said:
So did I reply to your Lewandowski post? You posted some lie at least thrice and I'm yet to see that post.
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That's pure projection, you're the one that's been lying your backside off all this time. I said I prefer Saka to Rashford for England, and you're out here throwing a hissy fit talking about random posts. Embarassing.
 
Topgun1 said:
That's pure projection, you're the one that's been lying your backside off all this time. I said I prefer Saka to Rashford for England, and you're out here throwing a hissy fit talking about random posts. Embarassing.
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So where was my post about Lewandowski?
 
We overhype way too much. He's been lively, that's all.
 
Like I said before, he’ll be at City within 3 years.
 
It made a lot of sense to start him, flicking between this and the Scotland game but looks like he’s playing well
 
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