Saha vs Martial

[RedTiger]

My kneejerk reaction was to say obviously Saha but, tbf to Martial, he did actually score goals at a better rate for us than Saha did. And his career-best season of 17 non-penalty league goals was better than anything Saha managed for any of his PL clubs.

I'd agree. Based on United careers, Martial edges Saha. Based on overall careers though, I'd say Saha was the better striker.

 

[MadDogg]

Except he didnt. That season was the lowest number of apps hes had at that point of his career:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/anthony-martial/leistungsdaten/spieler/182877/plus/0?saison=2020

22 apps in PL and 36 apps in all comps that season, thats the lowest numbers compare to previous seasons and he had 3 games suspension thanks to his red card against spurs earlier. This myth about Ole running him to the ground needs to die especially now people giving excuse to Ten Hag in the same situation; "the medical team gave "OK" for player "X", "Y", "Z" to play not Ten Hag fault."

Funny for some reason that excuse didnt apply for Ole...

You misunderstood me.

Martial himself confirmed that he played for four months of that season while not being able to accelerate due to an injury. Ole told him that he was needed, so he played through it. That was most of the season up until the point that he tore his knee ligaments (which may or may not have been related).

So which do you think had the bigger impact on his form dropping that season? Cavani arriving, a player who sat on the bench for most of the season up until Martial's knee ligament injury (and who was a good impact sub but shit whenever we did start him for the first half of the season), or the injury that made it difficult for Martial to run properly?

 

[Mindhunter]

I mean that's an issue with our upper management, not Martial himself. Like I said he was permanently crocked post 19/20 season that pretty much ruined his body, but he's not going to just forfeit his contract and walk away. We couldn't offload him because of it either.

Disagree. Any footballer worth his salt would want to do better. If it wasn’t possible at his current club, then he would have moved heaven and earth to get a move.

Just the fact that he was satisfied sitting on the bench, sulking, and picking up the 200k pay check week in week out tells me all I need to know about him really.

 

[mardika]

I'd agree. Based on United careers, Martial edges Saha. Based on overall careers though, I'd say Saha was the better striker.

Different era. Saha played in an era where 25 goals per season would have made you a world.clsss

You misunderstood me.

Martial himself confirmed that he played for four months of that season while not being able to accelerate due to an injury. Ole told him that he was needed, so he played through it. That was most of the season up until the point that he tore his knee ligaments (which may or may not have been related).

So which do you think had the bigger impact on his form dropping that season? Cavani arriving, a player who sat on the bench for most of the season up until Martial's knee ligament injury (and who was a good impact sub but shit whenever we did start him for the first half of the season), or the injury that made it difficult for Martial to run properly?

"Martial himself confirmed".

Thats the problem. Ever wonder if he was trying to find scapegoat? The man was criticized by Jose for same thing he had been criticized til the day he left us.

 

[MadDogg]

"Martial himself confirmed".

Thats the problem. Ever wonder if he was trying to find scapegoat? The man was criticized by Jose for same thing he had been criticized til the day he left us.

Option A) a player who has been utterly destroyed by injury said that he was playing while injured and wasn't able to perform properly (by a manager who we know played multiple players through injury).

Or

Option B) a player shrank from performing well because we signed a back-up player to him who was utilised as nothing but a back-up? Bearing in mind the original player had fought his way back into the first team multiple times previously ahead of the likes of Rashford and Sanchez, despite having a manager who didn't like him at the time.

It shows an incredible bias against Martial to think that the second option was the more likely scenario.

 

[MadDogg]

Disagree. Any footballer worth his salt would want to do better. If it wasn’t possible at his current club, then he would have moved heaven and earth to get a move.

Just the fact that he was satisfied sitting on the bench, sulking, and picking up the 200k pay check week in week out tells me all I need to know about him really.

Martial generally played when he was fit, so why would he move somewhere else for significantly less money to only play roughly the same amount?

The one time he wasn't playing he did end up going out on loan.

 

[SirScholes]

Saha was talented but Martial was literally the best young player in the world and won that golden boy award. In his first season for Manchester United people on this forum were calling him our Messi because of his dribble skills. The red mist that some people seem to get when Martial is mentioned makes them forgot how good and talented Martial actually was at a certain period during his Manchester United career.

Martial had more talent. Saha actually managed to play some football in his mid twenties though. Martial was broken after the 19/20 season.

Disagree
Anyone calling him messi needs to check into rehab

 

[diarm]

4 pages is absolutely mental.

I swear injuries were the best thing that ever happened to Martial. They gave him something behind which to hide the fact he wasn’t arsed being decent footballer on or off the field.

Saha was an excellent player who saw a cracking career derailed by injuries. Martial was a talented spoofer who didn’t work for the career he could’ve had and happened to have a lot of injuries.

 

[Catalandevil]

Martial was much more talented than Saha. However, Saha was clearly the better player, perhaps due to his mentality or because he had better players around him.

 

[Fortitude]

Martial was much more talented than Saha. However, Saha was clearly the better player, perhaps due to his mentality or because he had better players around him.

Saha, like Martial, was an extreme confidence player. Their triggers for doubt might’ve even been similar, as when Saha had doubts about his body, his form could plummet. He was also a streaky player who didn’t hit runs of form outside of a few key seasons, so mentality mightn’t have been better, but a more extensive and complete game meant he could be relied on to facilitate others even if he was not scoring or even playing particularly well.

Having better players around you works both ways. It can carry or bail you out at times, but it can also go to show how inferior and out of place you are, putting an intense spotlight on you as the misfit. Saha never looked like a misfit or out of his depth and it would be fairer to say he enabled others to play better via his ability and understanding of positioning, synergy and basic reading of both play and teammates. By contrast, Martial is more renowned for having a few periods of elite pairing, but generally requiring others to gel with him because he doesn’t do off the ball runs nor does he run on to balls, so it’s passes to feet and a dribble or combination play or barely anything. In relation to synergy, Saha was clearly more capable and eclectic.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Saha's movement was streets ahead of mannequin Martial.

 

[El Jefe]

The last two years of Martial’s time here and the team Saha played in is playing a big part in some of the responses here.

They were very similar. In form both were good enough to be vital parts of our attack but injuries meant we didn’t see that consistently. Martial had the added problem of attitude while Saha when not on form was a very frustrating finisher.

Even look at their records for France, they both failed to have an impact there. Both were players who in form were top class but for one reason or another couldn’t be relied on consistently.

Some of you need to rewatch all of Martial’s goals for us. It will refresh some of your memories. He’s one of the few big money signings post Fergie that were impactful.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Louis Saha had everything. Left foot, right foot, heading, hold up play, link up play, physicality.

I remember from my university days, my oppo fan friends who went to see a lot more games in person than I did, say he was a great player to watch in the flesh. A WBA supporting mate said he was one of the best players he’d seen play at the Hawthorns.

If he had two good knees, we wouldn’t have bought Berbatov in my opinion. That goal he scored against Chelsea in 06/07 was genius.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Louis Saha had everything. Left foot, right foot, heading, hold up play, link up play, physicality.

I remember from my university days, my oppo fan friends who went to see a lot more games in person than I did, say he was a great player to watch in the flesh. A WBA supporting mate said he was one of the best players he’d seen play at the Hawthorns.

If he had two good knees, we wouldn’t have bought Berbatov in my opinion. That goal he scored against Chelsea in 06/07 was genius.

I remember being pissed off with him for missing that last minute penalty vs Celtic a few days prior, then all was forgotten when he placed the ball past Cech. The precision he got on that shot from that distance, without too much power, was incredible.

 

[Ichabod Ferguson]

Louis Saha had everything. Left foot, right foot, heading, hold up play, link up play, physicality.

I remember from my university days, my oppo fan friends who went to see a lot more games in person than I did, say he was a great player to watch in the flesh. A WBA supporting mate said he was one of the best players he’d seen play at the Hawthorns.

If he had two good knees, we wouldn’t have bought Berbatov in my opinion.

But alas he didn’t so we sold him for peanuts to Everton on a pay as you play deal.

It’s a bit weird to see this descend into a Saha vs Martial injury thread as Martial at least managed 5 seasons relatively injury free. In his 5 seasons here Saha managed to average just 10 starts a season (admittedly also because other players were often ahead of him in the pecking order). As you say when he was he was pretty complete, but it just never ever happened for him.

I think any United fan old enough to remember will remember his performances in the 06-07 season where his ability to link up play made us look a far better side than the season before despite losing Ruud’s goals, but I do suspect Saha benefits here from playing for us in an era with far less vitriol. Luke Shaw’s injury record isn’t much worse, and the fact he also plays well when he does get on the pitch doesn’t save him.

 

[Stadjer]

Martial was much more talented than Saha. However, Saha was clearly the better player, perhaps due to his mentality or because he had better players around him.

Saha was also older and more developed as a player. Saha was 26 (?) when he joined. Martial was already broken at that age.

Saha was the better player in a much better team but Martial was way more talented. Without injuries and his development not partly stopped by Mourinho, Martial would have been the (much) better player.

 

[Stadjer]

People exaggerate the talent Martial had as well. He was good in his first season but defenders figured him out more in the second season because he is very right footed. Talented dribbler no doubt, but Saha was way more explosive and clinical as a striker and there was never any doubt about his position when fit. Martial could never figure out whether he wanted to play on the left or be a striker.

No. People dont like Martial and like to pretend he wasnt talented or even had very good games. At certain points in his career he was amongst the best players in his age group.

Mourinho stopped Martial in his second season. He clearly didnt like him but Martial still played well under those circumstances. He wasnt found out at all. Then Mourinho tried to replace Martial with Sanchez.

After Mourinho left and Ole became the manager, Martial had his best period. Did the defenders all of a sudden forgot they had found him out years ago and that Martial was very right footed? Martial was also very explosive, young Martial was keeping up with Rashford and looked the better talent. During the 15/16 season Martial was clocked as the fastest player for example.

Martial wasnt found out, his body found out it wasnt able to play football at the highest level. It is a shame how many here look back at Martial because off his last years full of injuries. He was always injured and when he played it was obvious that he clearly lost a lot of his speed and agility. He wasnt half the player he was from before the injuries. All he had left was fairly good hold up play and okay finishing. That Martial wasnt the 'real' Martial.

 

[mardika]

Option A) a player who has been utterly destroyed by injury said that he was playing while injured and wasn't able to perform properly (by a manager who we know played multiple players through injury).

Or

Option B) a player shrank from performing well because we signed a back-up player to him who was utilised as nothing but a back-up? Bearing in mind the original player had fought his way back into the first team multiple times previously ahead of the likes of Rashford and Sanchez, despite having a manager who didn't like him at the time.

It shows an incredible bias against Martial to think that the second option was the more likely scenario.

Or Option C) he was a lazy cnut who had questionable lifestyle who tried to deflect the blame onto other people.

Martial FC is weird.

 

[MadDogg]

Or Option C) he was a lazy cnut who had questionable lifestyle who tried to deflect the blame onto other people.

Martial FC is weird.

There's plenty of things to criticise Martial for, but what's weird is not believing an incredibly injury-prone player might just have been injured at the time that he said that he was injured. Instead inventing some idea that it was because he couldn't hack having some competition, despite it being very obvious that the 'competition' was only seen as his back-up (and that he'd had no problem fighting for his place previously). You're stretching for a narrative to fit your dislike for him despite the most obvious scenario being right in front of your eyes.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Well it's saha isnt it. You'd have to not seen enough of saha to pick martial but if you had a choice of which player you'd take now, at their prime, injury free, it's saha all week and twice on a Sunday.

Imagine Bruno feeding him balls? We'd be a top 3 team with his goals alone.

 

[Amir]

Well it's saha isnt it. You'd have to not seen enough of saha to pick martial but if you had a choice of which player you'd take now, at their prime, injury free, it's saha all week and twice on a Sunday.

Imagine Bruno feeding him balls? We'd be a top 3 team with his goals alone.

We never really saw Martial at what should have been his peak.

If I had to choose a ready-made striker, it would have been Saha based on what we got from him. If I had to choose a young player to develop, it would have been Martial based on his talent.

 

[ArmaDino]

The bit about Martial in 17/18 is wrong. Jose gambled unnecessarily on Sanchez who was just a waste of time, money and space and robbed Martial of a year of development. And Martial didn't sulk that season either btw, he had a decent season for someone who the manager didn't like. He was our 3rd highest scorer, only 2 goals behind Lingard/Rashford.

Most of the numbers posted that season by Martial were pre-Sanchez. After he was dropped for the Chilean, he became very inconsistent and started to sulk. A lot of people at the time attributed this to Jose man management. The narrative was that once Jose will be sacked, Martial will be rejuvenated.

It seemed that way once Ole took over and Martial bloomed during his interim stind that carried on to the next season. However after that he was never able to recapture the form he had and became a shadow of himself.