Saha vs Martial

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Martial is also one of the more overhated players in recent United history by a huge section of the fanbase, so I'm not really surprised by some of the takes in here.
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I don't think many 'hate' him do they? He was just a bit of a waste of a great deal of money and for most of his career was pretty ineffective.

I think you'd struggle to find many fans outside of our fanbase that that rate him to the disproportionate extent some seem to. In fact give it a few years and I think you'd struggle to find many casual footie fans that recall him at all.
 
The discussion about Martial has been getting out of hand since he left the club.... Stop the count!!!
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Martial is also one of the more overhated players in recent United history by a huge section of the fanbase, so I'm not really surprised by some of the takes in here.
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Saha was at Utd for 5 years, once his time was up he was gone. Martial should have been sent packing at least 3 years ago, but he was left to left to fester like bed sore for way too long, for everyone to look at all that wasted potential getting 200k a week and not be arsed to play football, that is why he gets more resentment. It's not that hard to work it out.

The day he stood still in that loss vs Sheffield Utd is the last time he should have ever played for the club. I wouldn't have let him in the door after that.
 
Oranges038 said:
Saha was at Utd for 5 years, once his time was up he was gone. Martial should have been sent packing at least 3 years ago, but he was left to left to fester like bed sore for way too long, for everyone to look at all that wasted potential getting 200k a week and not be arsed to play football, that is why he gets more resentment. It's not that hard to work it out.

The day he stood still in that loss vs Sheffield Utd is the last time he should have ever played for the club. I wouldn't have let him in the door after that.
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I mean that's an issue with our upper management, not Martial himself. Like I said he was permanently crocked post 19/20 season that pretty much ruined his body, but he's not going to just forfeit his contract and walk away. We couldn't offload him because of it either.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I don’t think it’s even a question. I saw Saha run rings about United twice and then join United and eventually displace Nistelrooy.

I think Martial was a better teenager. And was excellent during the empty Covid stadiums. But he’s not even close to that level overall. And no good thinking “yeah but if he had Ronaldo’s mentality” or anything. If I had Ronaldo’s mentality, I’d be a professional too.
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What makes you think Martial has a bad mentality?
 
Pickle85 said:
I don't think many 'hate' him do they? He was just a bit of a waste of a great deal of money and for most of his career was pretty ineffective.

I think you'd struggle to find many fans outside of our fanbase that that rate him to the disproportionate extent some seem to. In fact give it a few years and I think you'd struggle to find many casual footie fans that recall him at all.
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I don't think fans outside our fanbase even watched him play much in the past 4 years so I'm not sure why they would rate him. My point was that his two best seasons here were better than anything Saha ever managed for us or at Fulham in his career. Doesn't have anything to do with "rating".

And maybe "hate" was a strong word, but the guy was quite divisive in the fan base even as a teenager because many couldn't stand that he didn't smile much at the time even when he was winning us matches. That division grew with the Mourinho fiasco and then his worsening injury record.
 
Gotta love the takes on here... this is an apples to oranges comparison. The only thing these 2 have in common is that they're black, French and played for United. Saha was the epitome of a modern day striker, while Martial is more aking to a Berbatov regen, talented, silky, smooth and yet frustrating and pedestrian at times.

Even so, Saha was leagues above anything Martial ever served. We are talking about a guy who benched RVN for the League Cup final and that eventually ended up taking his spot and sending him packing. Mind you, this was a RVN who had a 0.75 goals to game ratio with us, when 1 in 2 was considered world class. That's why goal stats are meaningless in this debate. Different eras, different goal scoring standards.

Ronaldo came in 2nd in the Ballon D'or race when he scored 23 and assisted 16(or something like that). These days, that's considered a good season for Rashford mind you, not even World class.

As for the overall play: Saha had a far bigger impact on our team play than Martial did. He was the complete forward. He could score screamers from outside the box, he could finish, he could score headers, his link up play was very good, he could dribble and most importantly he was a leader and mentally resilient. When injuries robbed him of his starting place he still held his head held high and fought for his place. Sadly, he could never beat them and ended up paying with his United career. And this is the main difference between the two. When injury free, Saha was an absolute unit of a player.

Martial was the epitomy of a luxury player in the Pogba mould. Very talented, very silky, however he never had the mentality to take it to the next level. Mourinho saw that when he came and benched him for Sanchez, and we all remember how that went. Instead of fighting for his place, he chose to sulk. As a matter of fact, Martial only performed when the pressure was off: during his break through season and during Covid season. So to the people believing here that he would somehow compete with Rooney and Ronaldo for the Ballon D'or, let's be real. At best he would've been like Nani, had an amazing 1-2 seasons before SAF would've sold him and replaced him with a grittier and more consistent alternative. People seem to think that if you play in a PL winning squad, everything is easier, which is not the case. Just look at Rooney and his struggle with alchool as means of coping with the insane pressure he had to face. When you play in a PL winning squad, the demand to consistently perform is through the roof. That and the fact that SAF usually had at least 2 other solid strikers competing should tell you all you need to know about the Martial fanfare on here. The lad would've been lucky to last 3 season in our title winning squads. Which is not a shde on him, but more on the people who believe he was world class.
 
Saha was an outstanding player who struggled to stay fit but was a menace when able to start. It’s not really a comparison.
 
Pickle85 said:
There are some mad takes, and then there's this. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you:

Anthony Martial could have won a ballon d'or ahead of Ronaldo or Messi.
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Karim Benzema has managed to do it, A player that most people thought was carried by Ronaldo and Bale until he had his own season of seasons.

ArmaDino said:
Martial was the epitomy of a luxury player in the Pogba mould. Very talented, very silky, however he never had the mentality to take it to the next level. Mourinho saw that when he came and benched him for Sanchez, and we all remember how that went. Instead of fighting for his place, he chose to sulk. As a matter of fact, Martial only performed when the pressure was off:
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The bit about Martial in 17/18 is wrong. Jose gambled unnecessarily on Sanchez who was just a waste of time, money and space and robbed Martial of a year of development. And Martial didn't sulk that season either btw, he had a decent season for someone who the manager didn't like. He was our 3rd highest scorer, only 2 goals behind Lingard/Rashford.
 
Bole Top said:
or simply put Saha with his injury record in recent United sides. majority of fans would be sick of sight of him and his boring "hopes for fresh start next season" tweets after we finished 6th yet again with him playing 13 games.
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Saha in any newer United teams wouldnt be as anonymous as Martial could be. Martial’s impact also faded when he had to play a full 90s. Was better as a sub really.
 
It’s a lot closer than some are making out. I love Saha but his strength as a No.9 was that he was such a good all rounder. He could stretch play, hold up with his back to goal, shoot with both feet and was good in the air. This allowed him to play off of Rooney and Ronaldo so well.

If we had Saha in the teams Martial played in I’m not sure there’d be that much between them. I think they are pretty even to be fair.
 
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I don't think many will choose Martial over Saha, and it's not because of the numbers. Statistically, they're not so far away; both average players nothing more, nothing less, but Saha belonged to a winning team, so the memories about him are sweeter than Martial's. Both struggled with injuries, but Saha's attitude and work ethic were never in doubt, while Martial's was always questioned. Even before he became injury-prone, there was always this discussion about him being lazy and having poor body language.

Its only natural that the bast majority feel empathy towards Saha when the only thing limitating him was injuries. On the other hand, who can feel empathy for Martial? when his body language was awful on the pitch, plus he was injury-prone. Even Phil Jones got more respect and appreciation than Martial, and rightly so.

Martial never gave the impression of really fighting for his chance here; he was here for 9 years, which is a long, long time compared to Saha's 4 seasons. Yet I don't think he ever bleed "ManUtd." It's a shame because he was clearly talented. The fact that a Ballon d'Or clause was established when signed talks about how much expectation was placed on him, and the fact that it became a joke talks about how he never ever went close to that level.

At the end, Martial should have been gone years ago; he has been deadwood since 2021. You can either see him as a victim of the rotten environment/culture here where he was rewarded with huge wages he didn't deserve, which killed his ambition as a footballer, or you can simply view him as a lazy player who was never that good and ultimately took advantage of our poor management. Either way, it isn't a sweet memory.
 
Loved Saha, really good player briefly, but if you take Saha's peak and Martial's peak seasons and there's not much in it. The difference was one of them played with Rooney and Ronaldo and the other didn't. 19/20 Martial would have fitted in well to 06/07 United. Saha left before he was unwelcome, whereas Martial didn't, so I imagine that would impact on a lot of people's opinions.
 
Ka
RedStarUnited said:
Karim Benzema has managed to do it, A player that most people thought was carried by Ronaldo and Bale until he had his own season of seasons.


The bit about Martial in 17/18 is wrong. Jose gambled unnecessarily on Sanchez who was just a waste of time, money and space and robbed Martial of a year of development. And Martial didn't sulk that season either btw, he had a decent season for someone who the manager didn't like. He was our 3rd highest scorer, only 2 goals behind Lingard/Rashford.
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Karim Benzema is also absolute continents ahead of Martial or what martial's likely trajectory under SAF would have been.
 
Irwin99 said:
It's tough to compare them, because Martial really was an exceptional talent and maybe if things had worked out differently this wouldn't be a discussion. I have to be honest and say I probably didn't like him as much as Louis though. For me, Saha struck me as someone who had some severe confidence issues and was broken by injuries but he seemed a very likable guy who always gave 100%. Martial...apparently was very shy but came across as a bit of a mood at times, reported issues with Jose, Ole and EtH.

Related topic but i rewatched the 06-07 season review and our football that season was easily the best its been in the past 24 years (better, I would argue, than the following season where we won the Premiership and CL double) and for the first half of the season Saha was a huge part of that. He was a perfect player to go alongside Rooney and Ronaldo.
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The thing was though it was a very small snapshot of time, like half a season. If you take other players at their best 20 game spells, Anderson for example in 07/08 and 08/09 stretches was outstanding but is mocked now. Martial has a few of them - his first season, the 19/20 season, 17/18 before Sanchez arrived - then Martial measures up just as well if not better. People forget that Martial won a United Player of the Season award. Saha was never close to that level, even in 06/07 and I remember that team was my favourite to watch as well of any United one in the PL, he was probably the 6th or 7th best player in the team at best.
 
Ignoring injuries... Martial at his very best was a better player, however he was unreliable and we saw his very best far too little. Saha while not having as high a ceiling was more reliable game in game out, you pretty much knew what you were going to get every game he played.

That said neither could be trusted to stay fit so both were ultimately disappointments.
 
Martial for me but he’s criminally underrated by a large portion of Utd fans. Even hated, which is bizarre considering some of the memories he brought.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Martial for me but he’s criminally underrated by a large portion of Utd fans. Even hated, which is bizarre considering some of the memories he brought.
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More like being overrated way beyond proportion by his fans. Guy's had like 2 seasons where he performed like an elite striker (not world class) and managed to score more than 20 goals just once in his career (imagine that!)

Questionable attitude, questionable lifestyle (4 girlfriends now we know where he spent all his energy),

Feel sorry for Louis for being compared to this waste of space.
 
My personal opinion (not everyone has to agree with it), if Saha stays fit, I prefer the front line with Saha rather than the frontline with RVN

We were more dynamic, fluid, dangerous with Saha in the front line working with Rooney and Ronaldo. I found that trio extremely entertaining and dangerous.
 
mardika said:
More like being overrated way beyond proportion by his fans. Guy's had like 2 seasons where he performed like an elite striker (not world class) and managed to score more than 20 goals just once in his career (imagine that!)

Questionable attitude, questionable lifestyle (4 girlfriends now we know where he spent all his energy),

Feel sorry for Louis for being compared to this waste of space.
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Martial only ever had one full season being played at striker before he got destroyed by injuries. The other season that he played roughly 50/50 between striker and winger he also almost got 20 goals (despite being 19yo). In between those seasons he had one bad season, then two seasons where he was outperforming his competitors (the likes of Rashford and Sanchez) but Mourinho's personal dislike meant that they were consistently picked ahead of him for no good reason. As such it's very harsh to hold those seasons against Martial IMO.

People tend to forget just how young Martial was when his body gave out on him. At the age of 23 he had his best season and was our best player, establishing himself as undisputed main striker. The very next year, at only 24yo, was when the injuries started and he was never the same again. It basically ended his career at the top level just at the time most players start consistently showing their best. We'll never know what could have been if not for that.

It's also worth noting that Saha never scored more than 15 goals in a season in his entire career (other than one season in the Championship with Fulham). That's despite playing almost exclusively as a striker, unlike Martial.

Like I said in a previous post that if we're comparing their careers here, Saha's average level was higher so I'd be picking him in this contest. The injuries dropped Martial's level more than they did Saha's. But Martial was better here than most make out.
 
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Injuries are what held Saha back.

Martial was mainly held back by being a bit shite when he couldn't be arsed, which was most of the time.
 
Saha easily, for me

I do thinkif Martial has a better mentality and injury record he could've been an elite striker.. but, we'll never know
 
Man, I loved Saha, but I feel like people only remember him from his first half-season with us and the first half of the 2006/07, when he was genuinely one of our best players. Injuries were obviously a big factor, but he's not half as good as some people are making him out to be.

Martial, on the contrary, is being judged more harshly because he didn’t fulfill his massive potential and overstayed his welcome by a solid 2 or 3 years.

Overall, I don’t think there’s much between them.
 
MadDogg said:
Martial only ever had one full season being played at striker before he got destroyed by injuries. The other season that he played roughly 50/50 between striker and winger he also almost got 20 goals (despite being 19yo). In between those seasons he had one bad season, then two seasons where he was outperforming his competitors (the likes of Rashford and Sanchez) but Mourinho's personal dislike meant that they were consistently picked ahead of him for no good reason. As such it's very harsh to hold those seasons against Martial IMO.

People tend to forget just how young Martial was when his body gave out on him. At the age of 23 he had his best season and was our best player, establishing himself as undisputed main striker. The very next year, at only 24yo, was when the injuries started and he was never the same again. It basically ended his career at the top level just at the time most players start consistently showing their best. We'll never know what could have been if not for that.

It's also worth noting that Saha never scored more than 15 goals in a season in his entire career (other than one season in the Championship with Fulham). That's despite playing almost exclusively as a striker, unlike Martial.

Like I said in a previous post that if we're comparing their careers here, Saha's average level was higher so I'd be picking him in this contest. The injuries dropped Martial's level more than they did Saha's. But Martial was better here than most make out.
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There's always excuse for Martial. People loved bringing Sanchez but failed to mention he also shrunk when Cavani arrived. Cavani who was supposed to be his back up ended up replacing him in the starting XI. Saha was injury prone too but we've never questioned his attitude and work ethic on the pitch. Lastly ever wonder if his lifestyle contributed to his constant injuries?
 
Stadjer said:
Saha was talented but Martial was literally the best young player in the world and won that golden boy award. In his first season for Manchester United people on this forum were calling him our Messi because of his dribble skills. The red mist that some people seem to get when Martial is mentioned makes them forgot how good and talented Martial actually was at a certain period during his Manchester United career.

Martial had more talent. Saha actually managed to play some football in his mid twenties though. Martial was broken after the 19/20 season.
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People exaggerate the talent Martial had as well. He was good in his first season but defenders figured him out more in the second season because he is very right footed. Talented dribbler no doubt, but Saha was way more explosive and clinical as a striker and there was never any doubt about his position when fit. Martial could never figure out whether he wanted to play on the left or be a striker.
 
Both could have been monsters if not for the injuries. Why even compare them? They have so little in common.
 
More useful than Forlan, Smith, Bellion. Saha's left leg was a killer and flexible as peak Yorke, probably one of the biggest positives in transition years before Berba / Tevez combo.

Remove injuries and Martial's confidence issue, and they could have their shot at becoming United legends. Potential was exploding there. Give me youngster Martial over any of these late signings like Cavani, Ighalo, Weghorst.

That being said, Manucho. Absolute legend.
 
Martial had more talent at a young age but Saha made far more of his talent despite the injuries. Martial's languid style and attitude did more to curtain his career than injuries did.
 
mardika said:
There's always excuse for Martial. People loved bringing Sanchez but failed to mention he also shrunk when Cavani arrived. Cavani who was supposed to be his back up ended up replacing him in the starting XI. Saha was injury prone too but we've never questioned his attitude and work ethic on the pitch. Lastly ever wonder if his lifestyle contributed to his constant injuries?
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Martial never 'shrank when Cavani arrived'. That was when his injuries started, and he basically played for most of that season while barely being able to run because Ole wanted him to keep playing. Unsurprisingly his form dropped massively. There's a definite chance that Ole constantly playing him through that injury contributed to the torn knee ligament he got in the second half of that season, and perhaps how injury prone he's been ever since.
 
MadDogg said:
Martial never 'shrank when Cavani arrived'. That was when his injuries started, and he basically played for most of that season while barely being able to run because Ole wanted him to keep playing. Unsurprisingly his form dropped massively. There's a definite chance that Ole constantly playing him through that injury contributed to the torn knee ligament he got in the second half of that season, and perhaps how injury prone he's been ever since.
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Except he didnt. That season was the lowest number of apps hes had at that point of his career:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/anthony-martial/leistungsdaten/spieler/182877/plus/0?saison=2020

22 apps in PL and 36 apps in all comps that season, thats the lowest numbers compare to previous seasons and he had 3 games suspension thanks to his red card against spurs earlier. This myth about Ole running him to the ground needs to die especially now people giving excuse to Ten Hag in the same situation; "the medical team gave "OK" for player "X", "Y", "Z" to play not Ten Hag fault."

Funny for some reason that excuse didnt apply for Ole...
 
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