62 appearances is not a lot of experience to be fair.
Ryan Gravenberch / signs for Bayern Munich
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62 appearances is not a lot of experience to be fair.
Exactly this, we should not go after any Raiola client, regardless of how talented they are. That includes Haaland.
At 19 it is!
He would be a great replacement for Pogba. If Bellingham is deemed too expensive, there are no better young prospects for the 8 position. Midfield two of him and Tchouameni would be quite a prospect
In my opinion Gravenberch is a great talent, but still a very flawed player.. It's not thát rare for me while watching an Ajax game he is one of the first players I would want to see substituted to be honest. I think he definitely isnt ready to make the step to a topside in one of the topleagues yet and could still do with making some steps for Ajax, both in aspects of his game he still needs to develop as in consistency. But yeah.. If he doesnt want to renew his contract he should go this summer.
Topclubs with some money to spend would be mad not to get him for max 30 million euros, but you shouldnt expect a finalized product who is ready to be a regular starter for you.
Topclubs with some money to spend would be mad not to get him for max 30 million euros, but you shouldnt expect a finalized product who is ready to be a regular starter for you.
How do you compare him to let's say pogaba around the same age?
I like Gravenberch, but I’d still rather more of a facilitator in midfield rather than a central midfielder who is supposed to offer ‘impact’. Just give me a technician who can get it and give it quickly, under pressure, and evade those who are trying to press. Get the team moving better and quicker. Culturally, United have a bit of a fixation with ‘match winners’ and we’re always searching for some sort of hero. Let’s take the time to build a team first and foremost please.
Give me FDJ, Arthur or a player in that mould who can post 4 goals in a season and still be considered a good football player.
Give me FDJ, Arthur or a player in that mould who can post 4 goals in a season and still be considered a good football player.
@KirkDuyt
I remember you were the first one that said Van de Beek was overrated and you saw him as not that good when he played in the Dutch league and national team.
What's your opinion on Ryan Gravenberch?
I remember you were the first one that said Van de Beek was overrated and you saw him as not that good when he played in the Dutch league and national team.
What's your opinion on Ryan Gravenberch?
Being tall, lanky, with good dribbling and technique. Better than Pogba in terms of discipline, nowhere near Pogba in passing, creativity, shooting and finishing.
Not Carrick level no.
Though I deem him not ready for United, and think in Ajax' best midfield he might be on the bench, he is that player. He isnt that productive but plays well enough in what he does, he's overall a good player but not really outstanding at the moment.
He has been quite poor this year. Maybe second season syndrome. Talent is there but needs a few more seasons at Ajax or in Germany to develop
My recollection of Pogba in his early Juve years is not that great..
His passing is definitely not one of his strengths.
Agreed. I think if Antony moves and Berghuis moves to the right, he plays with Kudus/Klaassen and Alvarez he might get a bit more responsibility in midfield. There are too many stars as of now for him I think.
Pogba had insane star quality back then, his all round game wasnt as good as now and he was protected by Pirlo/Vidal/Marchisio but he showed immense quality in scoring for the league champions. He blew aged 20/21 completely.
Surely you understood the point?
I don’t think he’s much of a passer tbh. He seems a highlights man in that he is capable of the outrageous, and will ultimately be judged here on how regularly he delivers the outrageous. Of course, you’d have seen more than me, that was just my observation. His quality is largely individual and I think he’ll be viewed as a decisive player long term.
Never seen him play but the hype around him from people like Julien Laurens (who is a bit of an idiot) has sometimes been mental.
To a degree, but Gravenberch isn't some academy prospect. If we purchased him, he'd be for the first team and has a lot of experience - given it's not a seasoned veteran, but it's impossible to purchase that for a reasonable price these days.
Gravenberch is very talented, but has stalled a bit in his development in the last year. I think he has the potential to be very good as he has basically every attribute a modern midfielder needs. However, he is very inconsistent at the moment and a lot of Ajaxfans in The Netherlands are starting to softly moan (this sounds wrong) about his string of mediocre performances. Kids like him who break through at such a young age tend to be judged a bit unfairly at times though. He's been playing first team football for a long time and as such is judged as any other regular Ajax starter, but he's still only 19. I think Frenkie de Jong played for Willem 2's reserves at that age.
Edit: ok he played for Ajax' reserves, but still.
He is more of a link-up player, linking midfield between attack and his short passing, passing in between the lines is good. He can receive the ball, turn forwards, avoid the press or outdribble them, and pass forwards to quite a decent level. Better than our midfielders currently I'd say, but he doesnt really have that much of a killer pass/killer shot at the moment, and his tempo could be a bit faster.
Gravenberch very often brilliantly plays himself free after which he currently still misses decisiveness (not knowing what to do and losing momentum) or concentration (resulting in loss of ball). He also way too often screws up in the final third with sloppy passing or threatless shots. That's all really stuff he needs to work on. There is a lot there, he is a gem looking at his intrinsic skills and flashes of really raw potential, but the stuff I mention here still prevents him from being a really good player.
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Hmm that's ok but is there any major talent you could compare him to?
So basically he isn't as hot of a prospect as Paul was?
His all round game still hasn't improved.
I wouldnt say that. Pogba was 19 when he left United for Juventus and he definitely did not immediately in his first season at Juve become the driving force he was when United bought him back at 23. If Gravenberch would go to Juventus now I wouldn't rule out he can have similar development.
I get the Pogba comparison on Gravenberch, but I feel Gravenberch is better in bringing the ball forward, where Pogba is more suited to also give the final passes to tear up a defense...
I will give it some though if I can think of a player to compare Gravenberch to..
I'd disagree, maybe not improved as much as it should have.
Lazy comparison would be Rabiot?
No chance, but still a hot prospect. Bellingham is probably in that bracket and maybe even above.
Agree with your post, but to be fair this is a new role for him. He used to play more advanced in the academy, and we want him to be the second Frenkie de Jong (who also used to play more advanced).
Hmm I see that, but Gravenberch does provide a lot more power and energy to a team than Rabiot, besides the link-up aspect of their game you refer to (I think)
That's fair indeed, but thats why it also surprises me so much he is so tame and threatless before the goal and in the final stages of the pitch this season.
Frenkie and Gravenberch have similar ability to bring the ball forward from defensive to midfield (where I think Frenkie is more technically gifted and press-resistance, but Gravenberch provides more power and physique), but Frenkie also kept his head up and focus after he made played himself free. Gravenberch still too often loses the ball after a stupid decision (or because his lacks decisiveness) after a brilliant play to make himself free.
This will only happen if we get Ten Hag (hopefully) as we don't need him or any type of Pogba replacement with the way play currently in a 433 or in a 4321. We need two DM's for most of the managers systems discussed recently.
If we do get Ten Hag, ETH wants them and Ajax would sell, I would be happy with Haller, Gravenberch, Alvarez, Mazraoui (free) and Pasveer (De Gea won't work for ETH) and it's summer done for incomings. All five wouldn't cost much more than Rice on his own. Solves all our obvious problems and gives us a spine that knows how Ten Hag plays. Outgoings: all five contract ending players and a few more Jones, Tuanzebe, Williams, Chong etc. Then we see where we are in 2023 and if the rest of the squad have adapted to the way ETH plays.
If we do get Ten Hag, ETH wants them and Ajax would sell, I would be happy with Haller, Gravenberch, Alvarez, Mazraoui (free) and Pasveer (De Gea won't work for ETH) and it's summer done for incomings. All five wouldn't cost much more than Rice on his own. Solves all our obvious problems and gives us a spine that knows how Ten Hag plays. Outgoings: all five contract ending players and a few more Jones, Tuanzebe, Williams, Chong etc. Then we see where we are in 2023 and if the rest of the squad have adapted to the way ETH plays.
Sell McAwesome, that is hilarious
This guy is just bags of potential, but that's about it. He really hasn't improved much. Crappy decision making, no passion, doesn't know how to use his physique, shitty heading.
Right now he performs like VDB without the goals. He isn't even close to being the best midfielder in the league (gun to my head I'd take Sangare)
I actually wouldn't be surprised if he loses his starting spot to Klaassen by the end of the season when the big games come around. He plays in a very advanced position and has scored maybe 2 goals?
It's only Ajax fans or people that only watched highlights that want him.
He'll probably run his contract down instead of extending and developing further.
I know this comes across as very negative, but in developmental terms this guy is still a baby.
Right now he performs like VDB without the goals. He isn't even close to being the best midfielder in the league (gun to my head I'd take Sangare)
I actually wouldn't be surprised if he loses his starting spot to Klaassen by the end of the season when the big games come around. He plays in a very advanced position and has scored maybe 2 goals?
It's only Ajax fans or people that only watched highlights that want him.
He'll probably run his contract down instead of extending and developing further.
I know this comes across as very negative, but in developmental terms this guy is still a baby.
I think if you go through this thread you would find most Ajax fans here agree with you that he isnt ready by miles to be a United player, because he has many flaws in his game..
I stand corrected. It's only people that watched highlight reels/1-2 games that think we should sign him.
McAwesome
Been an admirer for a couple of seasons now, he's on Mino's books though.
Hes absolutely insane on Fifa this year so for that reason lets do it!
I'm not really for signing him relative to other players, but I can see why people would want to gamble on him.
He'd pretty much instantly be one of our most physically imposing midfielders alongside Scott and has bags of potential. All the lads coming through the academy are slight, so it's good to have a different profile.
But he's not physically imposing. He's big but doesn't really know how to use body to win duels and headers.
He's also not a DM, as some think. Ajax usually set up in a 3-1-5-1 and he's typically one of the 5. He has played deeper last season, but wasn't very good defensively.
I'll say it again, the guy is talented but in developmental terms he's a baby. There's too much pressure at United for someone like that to develop (what it do for Memphis?), he isn't coming here to play in the U23s and there's no guarantee he'll develop where he needs to be (he hasn't improved this season IMO) and you'd get Raiola in a package deal.
Speaking of Memphis, IIRC he was the best player in the league before we bought him. Gravenberch isn't even in the top 10. I don't even think he's better than Davy Propper when he went to Brighton.
I certainly don't see him as a DM, I actually see him being like Scott, but maybe I have him pegged wrong.
Good points regarding Raiola and on Memphis, but I think our signings have to start being about profiles of players that work in our system. Could he play Scott's role and develop? IMO, yes, but I think our whole squad will change come next season. I don't think there would be a great deal pinned on solely him.
Why would he develop at United, when he hasn't improved at all at Ajax playing week in and week out? It's not like he's outgrown the team. I think it'd be harder for him at United with less consistent game time and more pressure. If he doesn't develop you bought a dud, cause he won't be cheap.
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