Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

pratyush_utd said:
No it didn't. It was just my assessment of why Russia invaded Ukraine. It placed the blame on both Russia and NATO. NATO eastward expansion is always going to be met with strong Russian resistance. So NATO is partly responsible for Ukraine current predicament. Flirting with Ukraine and then letting it hang dry. Putin is a maniac and ruthless dictator, who reacted in the way everyone thought he would. Russia security concern are not figment of imagination either.

When US bombed Iraq and Afghanistan, did NATO really cared about their sovereign status? Or when Obama was using drones to target "terrorist" inside other countries? Western countries are in no position to lecture anyone on sovereign issues. Point is there is no side which is blameless in this conflict. Only victims who are innocent Ukrainian civilians.
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Well, I blame the country that invaded another. I have very little time for invasions, indiscriminate bombing or drone strikes so you can leave the whataboutery there. The use of the term flirting in this context is also quite ridiculous. Countries are allowed to ally themselves any way they wish and have free will to enter agreements with others and shouldn't have to worry about being invaded over it.

Are you trying to say that Ukraine pursuing its autonomous goals by holding talks with NATO is just as culpable as Russia in this conflict? If I had Putin on my doorstep I'd join NATO in a second.
 
massi83 said:
I been a pos to assholes in this thread. Anyone I have assaulted has deserved it. I don't give a shit anymore. Redcafe is a terrible place nowadays. The fact that you were best newbie promoted is a testament to it. The mods let anyone spread any lies and anti-vax bs and conspiracy theories as much as possible. They let hansifickmich troll the United forum. They let Russian trolls spread their bs, heck one of the mods is a russian troll pos.

There is nothing good about redcafe anymore after SteveJ and Olly have left and Hectic taking a break, mockney or brwned not writing much. I don't give a shit if I am banned. If I see an asshole in this thread I will call them out if I want to.
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Honestly, I don’t give a shit.

If you’re this upset about it, can I suggest you log off and do something else with your time.
 
pratyush_utd said:
No it didn't. It was just my assessment of why Russia invaded Ukraine. It placed the blame on both Russia and NATO. NATO eastward expansion is always going to be met with strong Russian resistance. So NATO is partly responsible for Ukraine current predicament. Flirting with Ukraine and then letting it hang dry. Putin is a maniac and ruthless dictator, who reacted in the way everyone thought he would. Russia security concern are not figment of imagination either.

When US bombed Iraq and Afghanistan, did NATO really cared about their sovereign status? Or when Obama was using drones to target "terrorist" inside other countries? Western countries are in no position to lecture anyone on sovereign issues. Point is there is no side which is blameless in this conflict. Only victims who are innocent Ukrainian civilians.
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You realize countries ask to join NATO, no one is forced to join?

NATO only expands as a result of countries wanting to join because they are wary of Russian aggression. What is NATO supposed to tell countries close to Russia asking to join: ''No you can't join our mutual defence alliance to counter Russian aggression and deter invasion, it might upset and offend the Russians.'' ?
 
TMDaines said:
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The insane thing about this is let’s just assume there is an entire neo-Nazi brigade in Azov and 100% believe the arussian propaganda (ignoring the fact the ‘evidence’ seems to be of a small group of right wing soldiers rather than an entire battalion). How in any way does that support a full scale invasion of Ukraine??
 
BlackShark_80 said:


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This is why when I said laws and controls in the UK apply to normal people only, it was no joke. For anyone paying attention, you know what I'm talking about.

Separately, I just listened to Lavrov talking about Western partners coming to their senses. Is it a change of tone or is it just the typical abuser dichotomy of abusing and then saying, we should compromise.
 
pratyush_utd said:
No it didn't. It was just my assessment of why Russia invaded Ukraine. It placed the blame on both Russia and NATO. NATO eastward expansion is always going to be met with strong Russian resistance. So NATO is partly responsible for Ukraine current predicament. Flirting with Ukraine and then letting it hang dry. Putin is a maniac and ruthless dictator, who reacted in the way everyone thought he would. Russia security concern are not figment of imagination either.

When US bombed Iraq and Afghanistan, did NATO really cared about their sovereign status? Or when Obama was using drones to target "terrorist" inside other countries? Western countries are in no position to lecture anyone on sovereign issues. Point is there is no side which is blameless in this conflict. Only victims who are innocent Ukrainian civilians.
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I’ve seen people say this but why should it? It’s just a line that’s been pedalled and no one questions.

If you are a former Soviet country and grew up knowing the history you’d had under Russian rule and another country offers you an option that you think is better, you’re essentially saying they shouldn’t get to decide as it might anger Russia? This goes for anywhere in the world and is part of being a free society.

We all know what happened in Iraq was wrong, if anything it makes it that much more obvious that what is happening in Ukraine is wrong. It’s 2022, we should all know better as a species by now.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I’ve seen people say this but why should it? It’s just a line that’s been pedalled and no one questions.

If you are a former Soviet country and grew up knowing the history you’d had under Russian rule and another country offers you an option that you think is better, you’re essentially saying they shouldn’t get to decide as it might anger Russia? This goes for anywhere in the world and is part of being a free society.

We all know what happened in Iraq was wrong, if anything it makes it that much more obvious that what is happening in Ukraine is wrong. It’s 2022, we should all know better as a species by now.
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From Russia’s perspective they don’t want that eastward expansion as future peace can never be guaranteed. The political landscape 50/100 years from now is impossible to imagine.
 
Zlatattack said:
This is it - our resistance is labelled as terrorists.

The other day the Sky News was doing a bit showing how Ukrainian resistance is making molotov cocktails, they were sharing the whole recipe and the process. Meanwhile when i was at Uni, i heard about a foreign student who was doing a PhD related to terrorism who was deported for downloading a manual freely available from the fBI website as part of his research.

A Ukrainian suicide bomber the other day was described as valiant. What he did, was indeed valiant, but its very odd to hear it described as such on TV.
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Sorry for the late reply.

I think you are referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham_Two

The student didn't get deported in the end, thanks to some tireless campaigning, but the Wiki description shows how other people suffered from the UK state's inability to distinguish terrorist material from an FBI manual.
 
TheReligion said:
I imagine because Ukraine has no air superiority and are using its weapons elsewhere, potentially strengthening the west of the country
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Yes and they have no military drones left at present.

Currently waiting for new ones to arrive from Turkey.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
If you are a former Soviet country and grew up knowing the history you’d had under Russian rule and another country offers you an option that you think is better, you’re essentially saying they shouldn’t get to decide as it might anger Russia?
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That is exactly what they are saying, yes.
 
BluesJr said:
From Russia’s perspective they don’t want that eastward expansion as future peace can never be guaranteed. The political landscape 50/100 years from now is impossible to imagine.
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That’s not my question, I understand the political side but, again, why are people using it as fact as if it somehow justifies Russia’s actions. (See the post I replied). It’d be like if Europe bombed the UK after Brexit and people were like ‘oh but there’s actually two sides to this…’

Ukriane should be free to join whatever it wants, BRIC, NATO, Russia or just do it’s own thing without the threat of a bloody invasion.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
That’s not my question, I understand the political side but, again, why are people using it as fact as if it somehow justifies Russia’s actions. (See the post I replied). It’d be like if Europe bombed the UK after Brexit and people were like ‘oh but there’s actually two sides to this…’

Ukriane should be free to join whatever it wants, BRIC, NATO, Russia or just do it’s own thing without the threat of a bloody invasion.
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The Kremlin obviously believe that Ukraine belongs to them historically so they’ll be justifying their actions that way.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I’ve seen people say this but why should it? It’s just a line that’s been pedalled and no one questions.

If you are a former Soviet country and grew up knowing the history you’d had under Russian rule and another country offers you an option that you think is better, you’re essentially saying they shouldn’t get to decide as it might anger Russia? This goes for anywhere in the world and is part of being a free society.

We all know what happened in Iraq was wrong, if anything it makes it that much more obvious that what is happening in Ukraine is wrong. It’s 2022, we should all know better as a species by now.
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The part that gets me about Iraq is that it wasn’t even a NATO operation. Several members of NATO actively opposed it.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I’ve seen people say this but why should it? It’s just a line that’s been pedalled and no one questions.

If you are a former Soviet country and grew up knowing the history you’d had under Russian rule and another country offers you an option that you think is better, you’re essentially saying they shouldn’t get to decide as it might anger Russia? This goes for anywhere in the world and is part of being a free society.

We all know what happened in Iraq was wrong, if anything it makes it that much more obvious that what is happening in Ukraine is wrong. It’s 2022, we should all know better as a species by now.
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Thats not for me to answer and can only speculate. I guess if you see NATO as a hostile force then, its expansion near your country is a threat you cant ignore. Ukraine inclusion will make Russia vulnerable as in event of war, oil supply can be easily cut which will result in paralysing Russia. It would be wise for NATO and Russia to have some buffer space and keep Ukraine as neutral ground. But we have crossed that line long back.

Some concessions have always been made to keep the peace.
 
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