Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Is the German stance representative of the current government, or would every German leader have made the same decision?

100% sure this wouldn't happen the way it does at the moment with Merkel in charge. Our government is the weakest in decades, hence the international unimportance of our country.
 
That would not fit their narrative though? Putin is trying to paint this invasion as a war for self-preservation, not a war of conquest.

They need to actually win the war first... They'd like to do it quickly, they courted the CNN reporter to show Spetsnaz taking over a Kyiv airport to force speculation that Kyiv will soon fall, media & viewers lapped it up. They need to show victories but it appears they don't really have that many...

I'm reservedly optomistic that this has gone very badly for Putin's forces so far, very early days though.
 
he's a joke, always has been. People in Germany wanted a government with low level competence in regards of national/international defense. That's what you get when you elect lightweights like Baerbock, Scholz and Habeck. It's pathetic.
Yeah i'm not happy. However Merkel didn't exactly leave us in a nice place to face this after 16 years of fiddling her way through either. Incompetence has made Germany vulnerable for a long time now.
(And the truly horrific thing is that even worse incompetence elsewhere has masked it for far too long).
 
My argument, basically, is that the five permanent members are only permanent members (as of today) because of their nuclear (weapons) capacity.* Aside from the UK-French agreement (common sharing of tactical submarines, which I'm not sure even exists as of now) I don't know of any situation where these states enrich uranium beyond their own borders?

*Which is hardly controversial when every time Trident or whatever program comes up for renewal the UK press tells us over and over again that the UK must retain its nuclear weapons in order to keep its position in the security council.
Just stop, please. This is making my eyes regret knowing how to read.
 
Basically all the big Ukrainian cities economically. Lviv is more a Central European place, lovely for tourism:

 
100% sure this wouldn't happen the way it does at the moment with Merkel in charge. Our government is the weakest in decades, hence the international unimportance of our country.

Scholz's party has a special relationship with Russia we should never forget that. Schröder went straight from being our chancellor and leader of the SPD to being a board member of Gazprom and they just can't shake free of that influence he still has in the party. That's why they didn't bring a stop to NS2 up as a probability until they had absolutely no chance left to keep it up anymore.
 
We could debate what Russia is doing is trying to annex Ukraine to their country or not but in any case what are they are doing is wrong and have to be prevented but so is the case in military operations from western countries.

This is false equivalency. Western countries do not go around simply invading their neighbors (anymore) just like Russia is now doing with Ukraine. And when western countries go to war for unconvincing reasons (Iraq), there is significant outcry, unlike your claim.

There is plenty wrong with western foreign policy. But you are off the mark here.
 
If anything, it's a calculated decision to go down this path as a leader, not that he's too old to actually understand better. His understanding of the people of Russia and what he can get away with seems to be fairly unparalleled, given what he's actually getting away with and for how long. Factor in Russias size, the amount of people, the money and power he's wielding, it's not like it's a tiny country where it's easier to get away with things.

In terms of the world, it's a complicated question but it's hardly down to out of touch entities.

He’s out of touch with what the people of his own country actually want…

He’s out of touch with the mindset of the global population.
 
Whilst not condoning Russia in any way, can't help comparing the shelling with America's 'shock and awe' tactics in Baghdad and wondering if it upset people as much as what they're seeing now.

We've done it, so it's a tad hypocritical feeling for the people of Ukraine (which we are, and should be) whilst not having the same emotional response for the Iraquis.

What is it with this persistent take on here?

People have already pointed out that that war inspired some of the. biggest, if not the biggest, protests in recent history for most European countries.
 
Yeah i'm not happy. However Merkel didn't exactly leave us in a nice place to face this after 16 years of fiddling her way through either. Incompetence has made Germany vulnerable for a long time now.
(And the truly horrific thing is that even worse incompetence elsewhere has masked it for far too long).

Absolutely true. We've become so weak, but still, Merkel was strong enough to keep peace most of the time and I'm really certain this situation would be completely different with her. but you're right, she was burnt out in the end and didn't leave us in good shape. We're in decline since the 90s, I'd say, and we're accelerating even more. Baerbock, Scholz and Lambrecht being the most important figures for this situation, feck me, mindblowing light weights
 
It's quite amazing that such a country like Germany still depends so much of a fecking Russia who is light years behind them.

Biggest cowards so far in this.
 
I'm so clearly out of historical and current affairs. I can't believe NATO members inflicted these kind of atrocities on innocent countries in the last 40 odd years. Yet, various posters in this thread have accused them of having done just that. Likening America to Russia. Sheesh. If history wasn't so damn boring I'd read up on it. In the meantime I shall regretfully admit that I believe NATO members are good, honest guys defending democracy (and their own interests - but shucks, nobody is perfect)
 
Could the Ukrainians leave the airport and absolutely flatten the area, including the Russian airborne troops, with rockets? They'd lose the airport infrastructure (if it still exists) though...
 
My argument, basically, is that the five permanent members are only permanent members (as of today) because of their nuclear (weapons) capacity.* Aside from the UK-French agreement (common sharing of tactical submarines, which I'm not sure even exists as of now) I don't know of any situation where these states enrich uranium beyond their own borders?

*Which is hardly controversial when every time Trident or whatever program comes up for renewal the UK press tells us over and over again that the UK must retain its nuclear weapons in order to keep its position in the security council.

And that's totally irrelevant to why France uses nuclear power energy, these are two separated programs. If France stopped producing nuclear energy they would still have the capacity to enrich uranium, they would still have a military program dedicated to it. Now why France uses nuclear power energy because when the plants were built France(EDF-Framatome) happened to be good at it and it was cost efficient and cost stable. Why EDF, Framatome and now Areva wants to stay in that direction because they are still very good at it, it serves their financial interests and since EDF in particular is a massive company in 2022. An other point is that strategically as long as France is in 'control' of Niger, nuclear energy makes France far less reliant on countries they don't want to depend on.
 
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Cut all ties with Russian industry. If enough countries do it their own people will turn on him. That's one thing the whole world has in common. Nobody likes getting poorer.

War isn't the answer here. Ban their products coming over here. Ban their participation in global sporting events. Ban everything. You watch how quickly their own people rise up and get rid of h
Is the German stance representative of the current government, or would every German leader have made the same decision?
Every government. A CDU/CSU (conservative) led government would behave exactly the same.
The Greens maybe would exclude Russia from SWIFT. On the other hand they are still against arming Ukraine cause it would split their base.
 
Could the Ukrainians leave the airport and absolutely flatten the area, including the Russian airborne troops, with rockets? They'd lose the airport infrastructure (if it still exists) though...
I dunno what their artillery capabilities are, plus their desire to shell their own territory. Terrible choice to be faced with
 
Scholz's party has a special relationship with Russia we should never forget that. Schröder went straight from being our chancellor and leader of the SPD to being a board member of Gazprom and they just can't shake free of that influence he still has in the party. That's why they didn't bring a stop to NS2 up as a probability until they had absolutely no chance left to keep it up anymore.

Yes, they're kaviar communists and they're weak. Always hated Sozialdemokraten with a passion, it's the most spineless party there is in germany.
 
Stop blabbering about stuff you don't know.
for what it's worth, I have no problems with being wrong. I didn't think Russia would invade Ukraine. I have problems when people wait for you to be wrong, or want you to be wrong, to somehow "win" by virtue of it. That's a sad way of being, no? Basically "gotcha" type posts. But on the continued membership of those five countries, particularly the UK and France, I don't believe I am wrong. If I am, happy to be told why (one poster has made one good counter argument),

Just stop, please.
Then basically posts like the above. Essentially pointless. Some posters will tell you why/where you're wrong, which is more or less the point of this, and others just assume some kind of nonchalant superiority from the sidelines.
 
I'm so clearly out of historical or current affairs. I can't believe NATO members have inflicted these kind of atrocities on innocent countries in the last 40 odd years. Yet, various posters in this thread have accused them of having done just that. Likening America to Russia. Sheesh. If history wasn't so damn boring I'd read up on it. In the meantime I shall regretfully admit that I believe NATO members are good, honest guys defending democracy (and their own interests - but shucks, nobody is perfect)
Well that was worth the time.
 
Fine but why not put severe limits on the amount of the financial transactions they can receive/submit in the interim?

Sanctions are far more powerful than SWIFT being blocked. It's simply not as key as it was a decade ago. Russia are more than prepared for it so it's basically just a minor inconvenience for everyone involved which obviously includes EU buying gas.

Strange it's become a thing on twitter to be honest.
 
this kind of thing should be enough. it never is.



Heart breaking stuff. :(

In the news earlier, they interviewed an older man who was trying to get out of Kyiv saying "We at least want to get our kids out of harms way, I hope we can do it. God-damn this bastard." While he couldn't hold back the tears anymore. That really hit me hard as well. What a fecking tragedy.
 
Absolutely true. We've become so weak, but still, Merkel was strong enough to keep peace most of the time and I'm really certain this situation would be completely different with her. but you're right, she was burnt out in the end and didn't leave us in good shape. We're in decline since the 90s, I'd say, and we're accelerating even more. Baerbock, Scholz and Lambrecht being the most important figures for this situation, feck me, mindblowing light weights
I rate Merkel highly, but I don’t think her being in office would have made any difference at all here.
 
this kind of thing should be enough. it never is.


Heartbreaking to watch and it's what my family went through. My brother was born in Sarajevo I'm 92, just 1 month later my brother and my mom managed to get out to Croatia while my dad had to stay, and they didn't hear from each other for 6 months and he didn't see them for a full year. Just seeing all of these images and videos brings all of the stories my parents had to endure to a very grim current day reality. Just heartbreaking.
 
@harms what is going on brother, why would they want to detain you?
Despite the right to protest being guaranteed by our constitution any peaceful protest that goes against our government’s politics usually ends in a bunch of arrests. There were a surprisingly few policemen around, usually the whole center is filled with them but I guess that most are mobilized and sent west (a lot of “police” on those protest are military in a police uniform).
 
I'm so clearly out of historical and current affairs. I can't believe NATO members inflicted these kind of atrocities on innocent countries in the last 40 odd years. Yet, various posters in this thread have accused them of having done just that. Likening America to Russia. Sheesh. If history wasn't so damn boring I'd read up on it. In the meantime I shall regretfully admit that I believe NATO members are good, honest guys defending democracy (and their own interests - but shucks, nobody is perfect)

Its an obvious thing to say really but still refreshing to read when there is so much crap spread around on the net :)