Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Dans said:
And the source they quote is:

"According to the Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper , there is clear evidence that the bullet came from the arsenal of the Ukrainian army."
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It's pretty clear at this stage that it was a Ukrainian S-300 that overflew it's target and landed in Poland but your claim that it was a missile that was fired for some other reason than to intercept a Russian cruise missile is very confusing.
Nothing in the link you posted suggests anything of the sort and I have not seen claimes like that anywhere else besides from some concpiracy nutcases on Twitter.
What you are suggesting is that it was some sort of Ukrainian false flag operation to start WW3?
 
Also for those wondering how Russia can out manufacture west:

Basically through the lack of planning…Those spares parts should have been ordered as soon as the decision was made to supply these…
 
Frosty said:
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Iryna and Joe Place who fled the war in Ukraine for Britain, have decided to move back to the war-torn country due to costs and conditions in the UK's housing market. (Image: PA Media)
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/couple-who-fled-war-ukraine-7806791

Amazing.
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but were met with “terrible” housing conditions, high costs and rental requirements they could not meet.

Sounds about right for Nottingham
 
Dans said:
And the source they quote is:

"According to the Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper , there is clear evidence that the bullet came from the arsenal of the Ukrainian army."
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I meant the bolded part. If they mean this Wyborcza article, then it claims that the most likely scenario was that Ukrainian side fired 2 or 3 anti-air missiles at a Russian missile targeting nearby power plant, one of them hit the target while one of the others missed and didn't self-destruct as it was supposed to. I didn't see anything in this or in their other coverage suggesting that it was likely it was used outside of air-defense context.
 
Dans said:
And the source they quote is:

"According to the Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper , there is clear evidence that the bullet came from the arsenal of the Ukrainian army."
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Some of the responses to your post are a bit passive aggressive. And I really don’t understand what you’ve written to offend anyone.

Ukraine is usually rated as the 1st or 2nd most corrupt nation in Europe, along with Russia. Politically both are capable of doing whatever it takes to get people on their side.

I have no opinion on the missile but I find both the irrational need to accuse ukraine of doing it intentionally or the irrational need to get hostile to any suggestion or implication that they might have weird. The side that didn’t start the war is still capable of doing bad things. This goes for every war in history. War isn’t a superhero movie with hero and villain where the bad guy is purely bad and good guy is purely good.

Things I’m certain a lot of people are not aware.

Andrea Rocchelli: Italian Journalist murdered by Ukrainian soldiers in 2014 in Donbas.

Kateryna Handziuk: anti corruption journalist murdered by acid in 2018.

Our hearts are with the Ukrainian people, but our minds shouldn’t be blinded into thinking the government is on some moral pedestal.
 
AlPistacho said:
Some of the responses to your post are a bit passive aggressive. And I really don’t understand what you’ve written to offend anyone.

Ukraine is usually rated as the 1st or 2nd most corrupt nation in Europe, along with Russia. Politically both are capable of doing whatever it takes to get people on their side.

I have no opinion on the missile but I find both the irrational need to accuse ukraine of doing it intentionally or the irrational need to get hostile to any suggestion or implication that they might have weird. The side that didn’t start the war is still capable of doing bad things. This goes for every war in history. War isn’t a superhero movie with hero and villain where the bad guy is purely bad and good guy is purely good.

Things I’m certain a lot of people are not aware.

Andrea Rocchelli: Italian Journalist murdered by Ukrainian soldiers in 2014 in Donbas.

Kateryna Handziuk: anti corruption journalist murdered by acid in 2018.

Our hearts are with the Ukrainian people, but our minds shouldn’t be blinded into thinking the government is on some moral pedestal.
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So rather than actually address the fact that that specific report the guy mentioned appears to be bollocks you've decided to pull up some broadly unrelated stories from years ago? Makes sense.
 
TwoSheds said:
So rather than actually address the fact that that specific report the guy mentioned appears to be bollocks you've decided to pull up some broadly unrelated stories from years ago? Makes sense.
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Based on what does it appear to be bollocks, Your view of the Ukrainian government and military being morally superior to that of every other government and military on earth?

The fact that the missile was fired from Ukraine was on sky news the night of the attack/accident. No one knows why & how a possibly Ukrainian missile got fired into Poland from Ukraine. The people speculating are doing so with their own bias. Whether it’s “clearly ukraine are trying to start WW3” to “well it’s obviously air defence gone wrong and the missile went haywire”

You’ve also had the President of the USA and Poland address it but those that didn’t hear what they wanted to hear then started talking about “why are they talking like that” “why are they speaking weird” When really what they said was pretty clear.
 
AlPistacho said:
Based on what does it appear to be bollocks, Your view of the Ukrainian government and military being morally superior to that of every other government and military on earth?

The fact that the missile was fired from Ukraine was on sky news the night of the attack/accident. No one knows why & how a possibly Ukrainian missile got fired into Poland from Ukraine. The people speculating are doing so with their own bias. Whether it’s “clearly ukraine are trying to start WW3” to “well it’s obviously air defence gone wrong and the missile went haywire”

You’ve also had the President of the USA and Poland address it but those that didn’t hear what they wanted to hear then started talking about “why are they talking like that” “why are they speaking weird” When really what they said was pretty clear.
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I have one request. Would you kindly feck off? Thank you.
 
AlPistacho said:
Whether it’s “clearly ukraine are trying to start WW3” to “well it’s obviously air defence gone wrong and the missile went haywire”
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It's pretty telling that those are the "extremes" that you're positioning yourself in the enlightened centre of. You didn't address his concern, which was the fact that the source Dans linked apparently at no point claimed that it probably wasn't anti-air. Hence the "passive aggressive", "offended" comments that so offended you.
 
nimic said:
It's pretty telling that those are the "extremes" that you're positioning yourself in the enlightened centre of. You didn't address his concern, which was the fact that the source Dans linked apparently at no point claimed that it probably wasn't anti-air. Hence the "passive aggressive", "offended" comments that so offended you.
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He just said “the source is bullocks”. You’re saying “apparently at no point claimed that it probably wasn't anti-air” which if I interpret that correctly is pretty much what I’ve said “ no one knows why or how”
 
nimic said:
It's pretty telling that those are the "extremes" that you're positioning yourself in the enlightened centre of. You didn't address his concern, which was the fact that the source Dans linked apparently at no point claimed that it probably wasn't anti-air. Hence the "passive aggressive", "offended" comments that so offended you.
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And the German source possibly misrepresented the original unremarkable Polish story too. Which is relevant because there appears to still be some apologist sentiment in high places in Germany.
 
AlPistacho said:
He just said “the source is bullocks”. You’re saying “apparently at no point claimed that it probably wasn't anti-air” which if I interpret that correctly is pretty much what I’ve said “ no one knows why or how”
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He didn't say the source was bollocks, he said the report (that "it sounds like it wasn't fired to intercept a Russian rocket") was bollocks, which it appears that it was. Because the source linked says no such thing, as far as I can tell. You're just winding him up, trying to create an argument where none exists.
 
nimic said:
He didn't say the source was bollocks, he said the report (that "it sounds like it wasn't fired to intercept a Russian rocket") was bollocks, which it appears that it was. Because the source linked says no such thing, as far as I can tell. You're just winding him up, trying to create an argument where none exists.
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Honestly. Im not trying to wind up anyone. I have not told anyone to feck off or sent abusive DM’s to anyone but guess who’s been on the receiving end of those things?

As for source/report pretty much everyone has been using those words interchangeably since Dans post (the one I quoted and replied too) I didn’t see his initial post until scrolling now. So if he wrote things in his initial post that were not in the article then he deserves to get called out. But I can’t read the language that he linked so don’t know.
 
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Maybe a wildfire fired the missile :rolleyes:

There's info wars attached to the actual war, which means disinformation in order to create confusion is part of the game. Having said that, it doesn't make sense for the UA to deliberately fire a missile to its main EU/NATO ally while applying for EU/NATO. Even as a false flag operation it doesn't add up (right in the border? With easily noticeable difference in the missiles?).
 
So, called out - fair enough and apologies to all.

The translation of the passage about contradictory to NATO assessment is this:

"The report also contradicts some of the statements made by NATO: According to a report by Business Insider magazine, the military alliance had stated that a technical error had prevented the S-300 rocket from self-destructing. That is why the rocket hit Polish terrain unchecked. However , Gazeta Wyborcza reported that the rocket exploded in mid-air after missing the target. The debris then hit just behind the Polish-Ukrainian border in the village of Przewodow."

I am guilty of not reading the article fully (as incredibly long as it was) and jumping to a conclusion based on the mini headline "Brisante Details widersprechen NATO".

I also am guilty of jumping to a conclusion based on the fact that Zelensky was so very adamant that it was a Russian rocket whereas all other parties refuted that and not being wholly unconvinced that it might not indeed be a false flag.
 
Dans said:
So, called out - fair enough and apologies to all.

The translation of the passage about contradictory to NATO assessment is this:

"The report also contradicts some of the statements made by NATO: According to a report by Business Insider magazine, the military alliance had stated that a technical error had prevented the S-300 rocket from self-destructing. That is why the rocket hit Polish terrain unchecked. However , Gazeta Wyborcza reported that the rocket exploded in mid-air after missing the target. The debris then hit just behind the Polish-Ukrainian border in the village of Przewodow."

I am guilty of not reading the article fully (as incredibly long as it was) and jumping to a conclusion based on the mini headline "Brisante Details widersprechen NATO".

I also am guilty of jumping to a conclusion based on the fact that Zelensky was so very adamant that it was a Russian rocket whereas all other parties refuted that and not being wholly unconvinced that it might not indeed be a false flag.
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Respect.
 
Dans said:
So, called out - fair enough and apologies to all.

The translation of the passage about contradictory to NATO assessment is this:

"The report also contradicts some of the statements made by NATO: According to a report by Business Insider magazine, the military alliance had stated that a technical error had prevented the S-300 rocket from self-destructing. That is why the rocket hit Polish terrain unchecked. However , Gazeta Wyborcza reported that the rocket exploded in mid-air after missing the target. The debris then hit just behind the Polish-Ukrainian border in the village of Przewodow."

I am guilty of not reading the article fully (as incredibly long as it was) and jumping to a conclusion based on the mini headline "Brisante Details widersprechen NATO".

I also am guilty of jumping to a conclusion based on the fact that Zelensky was so very adamant that it was a Russian rocket whereas all other parties refuted that and not being wholly unconvinced that it might not indeed be a false flag.
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You could have just ignored your mistake and moved on, but you owned up to it instead. So that's cool.
 
the hea said:
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This guy and his team are quite rigorous with their verifications, its all there on the website. His numbers are only those with published visual confirmations, so 2k+ actual lost tanks is a safe bet, within 9 months. Absolutely bonkers.
 
Simbo said:
This guy and his team are quite rigorous with their verifications, its all there on the website. His numbers are only those with published visual confirmations, so 2k+ actual lost tanks is a safe bet, within 9 months. Absolutely bonkers.
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I still can't wrap my head around this. It would probably take longer to scrap this amount of iron :lol:
 
Raoul said:
The least he could've done prior to traveling was gotten some casual dress tips from Macron.

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Yep Britain knows lots about fighting for freedom. But most of their experience with it is from people fighting against them for their freedom though.
 
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